Anyone excited about this? I want this to work so bad. Starocci Jackson and NATO RBY only matches I really care about. I get they are trying to make it international but I think they are missing the boat not making a solid USA foundation first.
RAF02
- Thread starter OSUBigBadBob
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Anyone excited about this? I want this to work so bad. Starocci Jackson and NATO RBY only matches I really care about. I get they are trying to make it international but I think they are missing the boat not making a solid USA foundation first.
I feel the same, personally. If they brought in the *current* best international guys, I'd be excited, but not for the talent of the past. I want to see the league succeed though so hopefully international fans will be drawn in but I'd be surprised. I'm doubtful there are many domestic fans that are willing to pay to watch Downey, Varner, Jackson, etc.
RBY's match is interesting only because NaTo will have a size advantage and we'll see how he deals with that physicality
RBY's match is interesting only because NaTo will have a size advantage and we'll see how he deals with that physicality
The fact Downey is second row is effing absurd. Not only is he a has been, he’s a disgusting human. Can’t believe they are paying that creep, no matter how much of a heel they think they are getting
Some who are involved said it would be the best wrestlers and made fun of other leagues. We get Holly a MMA fighter on the first card as a replacement and not Gross vs Mcgee. And now this card has Henschel vs Mugzy. So they're trying to use those matches to bring in fans which is fine. But don't act like it's only the best and talk bad about other leagues.
I'll play devils advocate for a moment. While there is an absence of absolute monster matchups I can pick out several positives.
-Everyone in the country will be rooting for Dake against a foreigner and this is hopefully setting up a Dake vs Zahid match soon.
-As a Cowboy fan Im looking forward to watching RBY.
-PD3 is crazy as hell but how long has it been since anyone got to watch Varner? Psu fans will be all over this and it should be fun to watch.
-Parris getting on the card is ALL ABOUT setting up a match with Wyatt soon.
-Everyone outside of psu fans will be rooting against Starocci. This bout also establishes depth at a stacked 190 lb class.
- Who doesnt love watching the women's
wrestle? Helen is awesome!
-David Carr is a great young man and seems to always be getting better. Who doesnt want to watch one of our recent world reps?
-Everyone in the country will be rooting for Dake against a foreigner and this is hopefully setting up a Dake vs Zahid match soon.
-As a Cowboy fan Im looking forward to watching RBY.
-PD3 is crazy as hell but how long has it been since anyone got to watch Varner? Psu fans will be all over this and it should be fun to watch.
-Parris getting on the card is ALL ABOUT setting up a match with Wyatt soon.
-Everyone outside of psu fans will be rooting against Starocci. This bout also establishes depth at a stacked 190 lb class.
- Who doesnt love watching the women's
wrestle? Helen is awesome!-David Carr is a great young man and seems to always be getting better. Who doesnt want to watch one of our recent world reps?
Was supposed to be Parris vs Snyder so winner could get Wyatt . We will see how many people show up. They moved it from Rec hall to Bryce Jordan so they must feel they will have a big crowd. RAF #3 will be in November in Chicago Thanksgiving weekend and RAF #4 in Stillwater in mid DecemberI'll play devils advocate for a moment. While there is an absence of absolute monster matchups I can pick out several positives.
-Everyone in the country will be rooting for Dake against a foreigner and this is hopefully setting up a Dake vs Zahid match soon.
-As a Cowboy fan Im looking forward to watching RBY.
-PD3 is crazy as hell but how long has it been since anyone got to watch Varner? Psu fans will be all over this and it should be fun to watch.
-Parris getting on the card is ALL ABOUT setting up a match with Wyatt soon.
-Everyone outside of psu fans will be rooting against Starocci. This bout also establishes depth at a stacked 190 lb class.
- Who doesnt love watching the women's
-David Carr is a great young man and seems to always be getting better. Who doesnt want to watch one of our recent world reps?
With the guys they have on the card Psu fans will be all over it. Guys not being able to wrestle due to injury or whatever is beyond anyones control but P vs S would be amazing.
I knew about Stilly in December but didnt know if it had been announced yet so I was waiting to say anything. Should be fun.
Edit: just wanted to add that with the big gap in home duals for the Cowboys that could mean a solid attendance in GIA especially if Wyatt and Z are wrestling.
Haven't seen it announced but people involved have said it out loud so it must not be something they care about
Well tit’s up. I’ll be there with bells then. Better be some good matches!
They will definitely have the guys in Stillwater on the card. Zahid has been invited to PWL 10 in Moscow Nov 8. RAF contracts are exclusive so Zahid has a decision to make. I haven't heard what he decided yet or if he even has. I think he says no and sticks with RAF
Abas Magomedov vs Nick Lee was just announced for PWL 10
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Yeah a few days after the PWL news came out, Zahid announced on social media that he pulled out of PWL and will only be doing RAF. He didn't realize he couldn't do both. I hate the exclusivity crap
Thanks for that information I don't do social media anymore. I get it if they want a pro league that's what it was to be . UFC guys can't fight in other organizations it just seems weird to fans because its wrestling but the right call for RAF
UFC isn't really comparable. The goal of MMA is to injure your opponent's body and brain, thus fighters can only compete a few times a year. The all-time UFC record for most title fights in a year is 3. Wrestling isn't like that.
UFC contracts are exclusive as are NFL contracts it was an example of how pro leagues work. It wasn't that deep
Not all pro leagues are exclusive though. The Diamond League and the WNBA for example.
Not all but most are and RAF being that way I have no issue with. Can't have a title holder wrestling on another card and getting hurt.
Not a great comparison for argument, but yes, not all.
Willie gets pumped about it, and I consider him one of, if not the best talking head out there. I know he’s involved and wants it to succeed but he’s got me believing in RAF.
Ive wanted Pro Wrestling that is real since I was a little boy, so I’m excited about it every time a card is announced and find lots of matchups intriguing.
They need to do better on ease of participation as a fan though.
Wow! Nate Jackson dominates Carter Starocci!
That was wonderful and I didn’t expect that!
Track and WNBA are better comparisons than the given examples of UFC and the NFL when discussing whether exclusivity is necessary. As I said above, the goal of MMA is to damage your opponent's brain and body.
Track is more relatable as it's an individual, Olympic sport where the athletes compete at-will depending on what they decide fits best with their training plan. The focus of their season is Worlds/Olympics and they have a similar qualification process to our World Team Trials. Athletes of both sports need to build up and shift down their fitness (peaking and tapering).
I don't believe Zahid competing in a one-off PWL event would hurt RAF. And I think it's short-sighted of RAF to threaten to cut ties with perhaps the P4P best wrestler in the world over it. That, along with other decisions of theirs, tells me that RAF's primary objective is not to have the best of the best. I find that disappointing.
That said, I'll reiterate that I hope RAF is a resounding success regardless because it's an avenue for wrestlers to make money. I hope the same for CLAW and CWA and PWL. I just don't think RAF needs to treat the wrestling landscape as zero-sum.
I just hope these leagues figure out advertising and marketing. Their events need to be easy to find and watch, and fans should know about them in advance.
It looks like this will take off. They are getting the names and getting great marketing. I always felt wrestling would succeed in a PGA tour setup, where you get sponsorship for 3-4 major tournaments a year, with qualifiers in between. Every wrestler gets paid who participates (on a graduated scale of course).
But hey, UFC style setup is already a proven commodity and it looks good.
I hope it does take off. Seems way cool. They need to do more to make it it easy to plan for/access/get excited about, but hopefully that's in their plans.
I may be in the minority, but I put RAF night on my calendar, but none of my UFC buddies have watched an event with me yet. Ill coax them out for the next one. Wings on me
They want to do 1 a month. Not sure how it will do in November and December during wrestling season for youth , high school and college
Yeah, that’s a problem for RAF.
They are competing against the new nations past time and the farming system.
I’ll watch Wrestling all year, but if OSU is Wrestling, that’s where I’ll be focused.
I would do an event late Oct like they just did. I would skip November and January. Do an event December 27 nothing is going on. And Feb 28 the week before conferences. My opinion they didn't plan the dates well. With some thought they could've done dates that aren't competing with college.
Also they have been posting the matches on RAF website before they announce them publicly that's amateur hour
My longer than intended non-coherent thoughts on it…
Always thought the best model would be to somehow combine w the existing UWW ranking series architecture. Much like the PGA FedEx Cup race where events are tiered (lower tiers worth less points are maybe what we’re currently seeing w early RAF where non-world guys try building up points vs existing ranking series serving as types of”majors” that continue building ranking points for seeding of the Worlds etc. You’d obviously have to financially incentive the athlete as we’ve see what ranking series participation is if ranking points are the only inducement.
In the current model, I love watching and don’t even mind the length of the show. I will say that politics aside, I find little to no redeeming value to Fox Nation, therefore have questioned both purchases bc it’s yet another monthly payment for something I use infrequently and will forget to cancel. The production is great and I feel like it improved further from RAF1 to RAF2. The announcers keep mispronouncing names of well know well credentialed wrestlers which makes it seem more rinky dink but that’s solvable.
The other critiques require a bit of grace on my end bc I have zero clue how challenging it is to lock down wrestlers and venues. As others, including Willie have said, scheduling around major sporting events and U23’s feels forced (ie, rather have a non optimized product than delay roll out). That’s fine but it felt forced and rushed. For most things, I want my first go to be close to the best version so future iterations will have more buzz and built in fans…
The bigger deal imo are their athletes. I remember over the summer when RAF was making a big deal of the roll out of athletes they’d signed, I listened to a podcast where Yanni was effectively pleading to be reached out to. He kobviously was eventually but you’d think they’d blanket the biggest stars early. The fact that many of the existing matchups are less than ideal makes me feel like the athlete bench is small. This is reinforced by rolling back Ramos and NATO after RBY pulled out. You can’t tell me a Gross, Gilman, Fix, Provo, Cronin etc couldn’t be added relatively quickly and provided a deeper bench of potential matchups down the line. Similar to Bo facing Caldwell. Is that really the best matchup that could be made? Of course there are some interesting story lines but right now, it seems RAF has several big stars (Dake, Carr, Yanni, Hedrickson, NATO and a bunch of older wrestlers/mma guys. For someone like me, I’d much rather the matchups look more like the quarters and upwards of the US open with some international guys sprinkled in than the current grouping. Hell, w HS kids wrestling out of their minds and Bo making the jump, let’s add a Sidun/Melvin/James/Raneys etc to cards to build up the contenders. During months the college guys can wrestle, add them in too. We have some great champs currently, so now there seems an opportunity to step back and develop the undercards who will later challenge for the belt. Of course, that may be happening. Maybe Carr didn’t want to wrestle a guy that would truly test him. The Yanni match was good in theory but believe Yanni had already beaten him 3 times before . Could we not have gotten Yanni/Green RAF1 instead of splitting them up. Lastly, it makes sense to highlight local wrestlers for each cities card. I know I’ll enjoy the probability that we’ll see Wyatt and Zahid and maybe Jax/Fix/RBY/Hamiti. I suppose my takeaway is wrestling is niche enough. Let’s wrestle the best we have right now and not dilute the experience with mixed martial arts guys who have been out of wrestling for a decade or guys who are clearly out of shape and were given a payday to come do an exhibition for the night.
I want RAF to succeed and will continue watching it as long as it’s on. Again, im sure RAF would love for all the things to happen that I mentioned and it simply falls into the basket of “easier said than done”. They desperately need a more mainstream partner than Fox Nation (God love them). I watched polo on freaking espn Sunday and felt like I could stumble upon LiV golf much easier when it was on whatever random station it started on. Cornhole apparently has a more ardent following too as it’s always on an espn channel
Always thought the best model would be to somehow combine w the existing UWW ranking series architecture. Much like the PGA FedEx Cup race where events are tiered (lower tiers worth less points are maybe what we’re currently seeing w early RAF where non-world guys try building up points vs existing ranking series serving as types of”majors” that continue building ranking points for seeding of the Worlds etc. You’d obviously have to financially incentive the athlete as we’ve see what ranking series participation is if ranking points are the only inducement.
In the current model, I love watching and don’t even mind the length of the show. I will say that politics aside, I find little to no redeeming value to Fox Nation, therefore have questioned both purchases bc it’s yet another monthly payment for something I use infrequently and will forget to cancel. The production is great and I feel like it improved further from RAF1 to RAF2. The announcers keep mispronouncing names of well know well credentialed wrestlers which makes it seem more rinky dink but that’s solvable.
The other critiques require a bit of grace on my end bc I have zero clue how challenging it is to lock down wrestlers and venues. As others, including Willie have said, scheduling around major sporting events and U23’s feels forced (ie, rather have a non optimized product than delay roll out). That’s fine but it felt forced and rushed. For most things, I want my first go to be close to the best version so future iterations will have more buzz and built in fans…
The bigger deal imo are their athletes. I remember over the summer when RAF was making a big deal of the roll out of athletes they’d signed, I listened to a podcast where Yanni was effectively pleading to be reached out to. He kobviously was eventually but you’d think they’d blanket the biggest stars early. The fact that many of the existing matchups are less than ideal makes me feel like the athlete bench is small. This is reinforced by rolling back Ramos and NATO after RBY pulled out. You can’t tell me a Gross, Gilman, Fix, Provo, Cronin etc couldn’t be added relatively quickly and provided a deeper bench of potential matchups down the line. Similar to Bo facing Caldwell. Is that really the best matchup that could be made? Of course there are some interesting story lines but right now, it seems RAF has several big stars (Dake, Carr, Yanni, Hedrickson, NATO and a bunch of older wrestlers/mma guys. For someone like me, I’d much rather the matchups look more like the quarters and upwards of the US open with some international guys sprinkled in than the current grouping. Hell, w HS kids wrestling out of their minds and Bo making the jump, let’s add a Sidun/Melvin/James/Raneys etc to cards to build up the contenders. During months the college guys can wrestle, add them in too. We have some great champs currently, so now there seems an opportunity to step back and develop the undercards who will later challenge for the belt. Of course, that may be happening. Maybe Carr didn’t want to wrestle a guy that would truly test him. The Yanni match was good in theory but believe Yanni had already beaten him 3 times before . Could we not have gotten Yanni/Green RAF1 instead of splitting them up. Lastly, it makes sense to highlight local wrestlers for each cities card. I know I’ll enjoy the probability that we’ll see Wyatt and Zahid and maybe Jax/Fix/RBY/Hamiti. I suppose my takeaway is wrestling is niche enough. Let’s wrestle the best we have right now and not dilute the experience with mixed martial arts guys who have been out of wrestling for a decade or guys who are clearly out of shape and were given a payday to come do an exhibition for the night.
I want RAF to succeed and will continue watching it as long as it’s on. Again, im sure RAF would love for all the things to happen that I mentioned and it simply falls into the basket of “easier said than done”. They desperately need a more mainstream partner than Fox Nation (God love them). I watched polo on freaking espn Sunday and felt like I could stumble upon LiV golf much easier when it was on whatever random station it started on. Cornhole apparently has a more ardent following too as it’s always on an espn channel