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RB2?

R

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
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So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
 
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M

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,674
18,962
113
RU-05 said:
So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
Click to expand...

Brown's running picked up as the game went on. First few carries I agree with you.
 
Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,583
86,603
113
RU-05 said:
So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
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Can't find it, but Sam Brown graded out very high by PFF.
Raymond looked good, but need to see a larger sample size. Not a knock against him at all, just would like to see more before jumping to an early conclusion against Howard in 4th quarter.
 
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nutfromSEC117

All-American
Nov 2, 2002
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Brown is just fine , I think it may be more that Raymond might have “it” !!!! Very small sample size for Raymond but he now should get a carry or two in a series in 2nd or 3rd Q
 
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R

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
14,821
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mdk01 said:
Brown's running picked up as the game went on. First few carries I agree with you.
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Which could speak to him needing to get back to game speed.

Could also speak to a big fresh back being able to feast on a worn out Howard D. Admittedly Raymond benefited from this as well. Do we know the state of the O-lines for these 2 RB's in the 2nd half? Was it full 2nd unit when Raymond and Shep were in the game?
 
R

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
14,821
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Knight Shift said:
Can't find it, but Sam Brown graded out very high by PFF.
Raymond looked good, but need to see a larger sample size. Not a knock against him at all, just would like to see more before jumping to an early conclusion against Howard in 4th quarter.
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Ya, and as I note, I'm not anointing him the #2 yet. But that did make me think it's possible at some point this year.

Do we know what goes into the PFF grades? How much did the TD catch play into it?
 
S

Samson1975!!!

Junior
Nov 22, 2022
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yeah. If we can't discuss football we may as well resign as the worst fan base. What's the point?

Everything is always as it should be. Support and like players others pick for you. Strange stuff!
 
R

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
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Knight Shift said:
Someone does not understand the concept of a Football "Forum." --"a public meeting place for open discussion."

Imagine a fan or an analyst having an opinion that varies or differs from the coaches.

Kyron Drones (Va Tech) QB says hello! @mb5789 would get this joke.
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Such a bizarre concept.

But at this point I can't say my opinion actually differs from the coaches regarding RB2.
 
DJ Spanky

DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
48,161
59,057
113
RU-05 said:
So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
Click to expand...

Ummmmmm.....you seem to be cherry picking specific moments. There's a lot more to playing running back under Schiano than barreling through the line. Look at what else Monangai and Brown did during the game other than carrying the ball.
 
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RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
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DJ Spanky said:
Ummmmmm.....you seem to be cherry picking specific moments. There's a lot more to playing running back under Schiano than barreling through the line. Look at what else Monangai and Brown did during the game other than carrying the ball.
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It's true, I didn't perform a film breakdown to see pass blocking for the respective players.

Monangai had that excellent pickup. I didn't notice a similar play for either of the other two. Wouldn't shock me if Brown has an edge in that regard but Raymond was on for zero pass plays. Really wasn't much opportunity to see how he fared in other facets of the game(he did seem committed to high and tight though).

And I did try to note the specific context for when each guy was playing. Don't think I did much cherry picking.
 
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K

Knight Owl

All-Conference
Jul 27, 2001
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Raymond got that herky jerk in him. I think he needs to stay on the lighter side to be effective (and his current 202 lbs isn’t THAT light).
Sam Brown is up to a listed 222 pounds now but still has good top end speed. I wonder if he shouldn’t try to put on a few more pounds so he can break more arm tackles since he is a true “downhill” runner.
 
R

RUbacker

Heisman
Dec 5, 2014
15,930
22,483
108
RU-05 said:
So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
Click to expand...
Brown is RB2 . Raymond is the future . You are forgetting Benjamin altogether . He is a nice change of pace back .
 
R

RUbacker

Heisman
Dec 5, 2014
15,930
22,483
108
Knight Owl said:
Raymond got that herky jerk in him. I think he needs to stay on the lighter side to be effective (and his current 202 lbs isn’t THAT light).
Sam Brown is up to a listed 222 pounds now but still has good top end speed. I wonder if he shouldn’t try to put on a few more pounds so he can break more arm tackles since he is a true “downhill” runner.
Click to expand...
No, no more weight.
 
M

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,674
18,962
113
drewbagel423 said:
With the portal and current transfer rules, is there a point to RSing players anymore?
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Yes. If a freshman sees juniors and seniors in front of him and a clear path to a starting role or significant playing time in year 3 (redshirt soph year) it works.
 
R

RU05

All-American
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Extra Point said:
Shouldn't Raymond be redshirted?
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drewbagel423 said:
With the portal and current transfer rules, is there a point to RSing players anymore?
Click to expand...
If Raymond is good enough, and there is some basis to think he is, then he shouldn't be redshirted.

And by good enough it probably means he's the #2. Probably won't forego the redshirt just to play him as a #3.

And if he is good enough, do we expect to have him around for 4 years beyond this one? So if coaches think he is currently the 2nd best back on the roster, I don't think they try to play the long game with him.
 
M

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,674
18,962
113
RU-05 said:
If Raymond is good enough, and there is some basis to think he is, then he shouldn't be redshirted.

And by good enough it probably means he's the #2. Probably won't forego the redshirt just to play him as a #3.

And if he is good enough, do we expect to have him around for 4 years beyond this one? So if coaches think he is currently the 2nd best back on the roster, I don't think they try to play the long game with him.
Click to expand...

They have 4 games to find out. I certainly wouldn't burn a redshirt based on a 4th quarter against Howard's 2nd string.
 
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RU05

All-American
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mdk01 said:
They have 4 games to find out. I certainly wouldn't burn a redshirt based on a 4th quarter against Howard's 2nd string.
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Of course. And I think if coaching staff is even considering it, then they get him into the mix much earlier vs Akron.

If we only see him in mop up, then it probably shows their hand.
 
Y

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
122,350
38,102
113
mdk01 said:
They have 4 games to find out. I certainly wouldn't burn a redshirt based on a 4th quarter against Howard's 2nd string.
Click to expand...
if the kid comes in against Akron and looks the same, they he gets more looks- but the other thing, it isn't like Brown looked horrible. Dude had more that 100 all purpose yds and 4.9 average on the ground.
 
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RUSK97

All-American
Dec 28, 2007
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RU-05 said:
It's true, I didn't perform a film breakdown to see pass blocking for the respective players.

Monangai had that excellent pickup. I didn't notice a similar play for either of the other two. Wouldn't shock me if Brown has an edge in that regard but Raymond was on for zero pass plays. Really wasn't much opportunity to see how he fared in other facets of the game(he did seem committed to high and tight though).

And I did try to note the specific context for when each guy was playing. Don't think I did much cherry picking.
Click to expand...
That I think is the knock on Monangai for the next level. He’a a great runner - bo doubt, but his pass blocking is improving (not quite there yet) and his pass catching needs a lot of work (albeit those kinds of dumpoff passes were Wimsatt’s worst).
 
R

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
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RUSK97 said:
That I think is the knock on Monangai for the next level. He’a a great runner - bo doubt, but his pass blocking is improving (not quite there yet) and his pass catching needs a lot of work (albeit those kinds of dumpoff passes were Wimsatt’s worst).
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Just digging through his stats, and found it interesting that he had 10 catches in his frosh season, but then followed that up with back to back 6 catch season(8 last season including the bowl game), despite having a much bigger overall role.

Granted QB play is a big factor in that.

1 Catch vs Howard in a little more then 1/2 a game. So hopefully we see more of that this year.
 
Y

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
122,350
38,102
113
RUSK97 said:
That I think is the knock on Monangai for the next level. He’a a great runner - bo doubt, but his pass blocking is improving (not quite there yet) and his pass catching needs a lot of work (albeit those kinds of dumpoff passes were Wimsatt’s worst).
Click to expand...
Wait wut?????? His blocking- do you watch Rutgers- if he isn't the best pass blocking RB in college, he is top 5- you can put together a 15 minute highlight of nothing but his bone crushing game changing blocks
 
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yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
122,350
38,102
113
Also- pass catching- ****- last year- GW couldn't hit a RB if his life depended on it.
I can't recall a pass to KM he bungled...
 
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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,192
44,274
113
yesrutgers01 said:
Wait wut?????? His blocking- do you watch Rutgers- if he isn't the best pass blocking RB in college, he is top 5- you can put together a 15 minute highlight of nothing but his bone crushing game changing blocks
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't know where that came from. KM is a helluva blocker, both mentally (looking at the D and getting to the spot) and physically (dishing out fierce blocks).
 
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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,192
44,274
113
RU-05 said:
So I know Brown is coming off an injury plagued season and may need more time to get up to speed.

I also know Raymond is a freshman who was playing against either a worn out D, or Howard's depth players.

And there is also the style factor with Brown being a physical change of pace back that could be seen as a better complement to Monangai then Raymond.

But while I thought Brown's play against an lower level opponent was pretty meh, Raymond came in, and like Monangai, looked electric. On 19 carries Monangai had 5 carries of 10 or more yards. Raymond had 3 on 6 carries. Brown had 1 on 14 carries.

Am I overlooking the 30+ yard TD reception for Brown. I admit I am. And I'm not saying that right now Raymond should be the RB2. But I do think that the potential for that to happen at some point this season should be on the table.
Click to expand...
Last minute runs against a worn down defense are hard to base anything on and Brown had quite a good game, including that pass catch, so based on stats, Raymond isn't passing Brown anytime soon. Having said that, I agree that Raymond looks like he could be a special back with speed and moves, so I do expect to see him get some reps every game, especially if he can block (no idea on that right now).
 
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