Real Issue, value for our dollar. Stoops 3.2 mill Brohm $675.000

[Calsarmy]

I think the real issue is we are paying a HC with no experience $3.200,000,00 a year plus bonus' with yearly increases. When there are many many other coaches making the same or less with outstanding results.

Forgetting Brohm's pedigree for a moment and just taking in consideration his experience and results do you think that we are getting almost 4 times the results vs what WKU is getting?

Brohm of course progressed the way any coach would and should do if your going into what is probably the best football conference in college football. He came from a family of players, played the game at all levels, was a QB coach, progressed to a OC and then on to HC at a mid level school and now of course will be on to bigger and better things since he has had the opportunity to make the traditional mistakes and correct them.

Stoops came from a football coaching family. Mark Stoops has a fatal flaw in that he skipped the mid-level HC job. It is a flaw most think he can not overcome at this point.

Now its unfortunately a vicious circle in that the losing has hurt and is hurting recruiting. The on field mistakes are embarrassing.

Our OC and DC came to UK with the same experience as Stoops at this level. Meaning none. The SEC is not a training ground.

The question really at this point is easy. Who is getting their monies worth, WKY or UK?

By the way Im no Johnny come lately to UK football, Ive been going to games since the mid 50's. At one time I never missed a home or away game for 14 years.

 

[gg4uk]

There is not a yellow brick road perfect path. A good coach will correct his short comings and will show leadership at all levels to as he ascends.

However, mid-level jobs are much easier than top level.

The money is irrelevant to me.

We are going to find out with in the next year if Mark Stoops can coach or not. He either can or he can't.

 

[fuzz77]

People complaining about Stoops experience at this point is pointless as he now has 3 years experience as a HC.

You can claim that the SEC isn't a training ground but as recently as 2 years ago nearly one half of all SEC head coaches were first timers. Muschamp, Malzahn, Stoops, Franklin, Richt, and Mullen were all hired with no HC experience.

Would Brohm do better at UK than Stoops? Nobody knows. The list is long of the coaches who succeeded wildly in one job and then flopped at the next. Everybody's golden boy James Franklin won more games at Vandy in his first 2 years than he has won at Penn St and he just got drop-kicked 55-16 yesterday.

 

[Randy Bob]

Brohm will not be at WKU long...

 

[Glenn Fohr]

Isn't there enough SEC TV money and revenue from this season to buy Stoops out right now?

 

[Deeeefense]

Stoops came from a football coaching family. Mark Stoops has a fatal flaw in that he skipped the mid-level HC job. It is a flaw most think he can not overcome at this point.

What Fuzz said. Plus Stoops brother Bob had a very similar resume as Mark - both DCs at elite level programs with no head coaching experience, when he was hired by Oklahoma - and Bob will most likely make it to the final four this year.

The notion that coordinators can't make a successful jump to head coach is a flawed argument.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Stoops is currently the 27th highest paid coach in the country. Right behind Dabo swinney at Clemson and right ahead of mark helfrich at oregon.

That right there should tell the whole story.

 

[Chuckinden]

Stoops is currently the 27th highest paid coach in the country. Right behind Dabo swinney at Clemson and right ahead of mark helfrich at oregon.

That right there should tell the whole story.

That is stupid. When Mitch gave CMS the extension, I said WTF is he doing. Wait awhile.

What a microwave move that was.

 

[jc2010]

Stoops biggest mistake is in hiring green coordinators. He needs people in there that can make up for his inexperience. Losing games is bad, the way we have lost and even the way we have won some is embarrassing

 

[seccats04]

People complaining about Stoops experience at this point is pointless as he now has 3 years experience as a HC.

You can claim that the SEC isn't a training ground but as recently as 2 years ago nearly one half of all SEC head coaches were first timers. Muschamp, Malzahn, Stoops, Franklin, Richt, and Mullen were all hired with no HC experience.

Would Brohm do better at UK than Stoops? Nobody knows. The list is long of the coaches who succeeded wildly in one job and then flopped at the next. Everybody's golden boy James Franklin won more games at Vandy in his first 2 years than he has won at Penn St and he just got drop-kicked 55-16 yesterday.

If you don't want to compare Franklin and Stoops, fine. Instead, look at Dan Mullen. This guy was a coordinator at a top level school and became HC at Miss St. Not the easiest of places to win at and he inherited a similar mess at a program with about the same tradition and resources AND playing in the tougher SEC West as well. Look at what he's done in 7 years. Made a bowl game in every year except his first and they are almost always in the Top 25 and fun to watch. Either you can coach or you can't. You don't need 5 years to figure that out. It's obvious this staff is going to fail.

 

[krazykats]

First Stoops is at a mid level job learning from his mistakes so don't over estimate UK on a national scale.

Secondly I'd wonder if Brohm would join UK as OC for a raise? I mean I'd think our OC is making that or more and Brohm's network would be well worth the raise!

 

[kyjohn]

There is not a yellow brick road perfect path. A good coach will correct his short comings and will show leadership at all levels to as he ascends.

However, mid-level jobs are much easier than top level.

The money is irrelevant to me.

We are going to find out with in the next year if Mark Stoops can coach or not. He either can or he can't.

WE don't have to wait until next year to find out about Stoops ability to coach.The past three seasons have shown us he cant.
It's really a shame that UK has been stung again because they,UK,have poured a ton of money into the football program over the past three years and have little to show for it.And not only the university but the fans.Those fans who gave their heart and soul supporting this program .All deserve better.

 

[fuzz77]

First Stoops is at a mid level job learning from his mistakes so don't over estimate UK on a national scale.

Secondly I'd wonder if Brohm would join UK as OC for a raise? I mean I'd think our OC is making that or more and Brohm's network would be well worth the raise!

I doubt Brohm will be waiting long for a raise...
Gus Malzahn turned down $3 million at Vandy to stay on at Auburn as OC at $1 million.
Once they are earning $250K+ guys aren't going to make decisions simply for money. They are making career decisions.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

Mitch should hire Brohm as OC with a promise to become the head coach once Stoops' buyout becomes more affordable

 

[Tannerdad]

Brohm will likely end up at UL when Petrino bolts again. He may go somewhere in the interim, but eventually will land back home, IMO

 

[ukcatsfan1]

Isn't there enough SEC TV money and revenue from this season to buy Stoops out right now?

Why would do this after only three years of trying to rebuild this program?

You want to wait another 3-4 years for the next coach to turn this around .

And there or four more years after that?

I say support what you have and give him a chance with his players

And stop with all this talk of people knowing what's right for a program that hasnt been able to overcome the Bear Bryant curse in over 50 years!

 

[Shavers48]

We are going to find out with in the next year if Mark Stoops can coach or not. He either can or he can't.

you really need another year to be able to tell?!? Did you think Joker should have gotten another year? Stoopid's shortcomings are obvious and his ability to correct has been slow-to-never.

 

[Burly]

Guys we are stuck...three years is plenty of time to see if a guy can Coach. Not only can he not he is downright horrible in every aspect except internet recruiting rankings. His buyout has us stuck and we are looking at best a 4 win season next year.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I doubt Brohm will be waiting long for a raise...
Gus Malzahn turned down $3 million at Vandy to stay on at Auburn as OC at $1 million.
Once they are earning $250K+ guys aren't going to make decisions simply for money. They are making career decisions.

You're making the case that we aren't going to get a premier coach unless he has some baggage.

 

[fuzz77]

You're making the case that we aren't going to get a premier coach unless he has some baggage.

No, not really. We are unlikely to ever hire someone like Saban or Meyers but there was a time that Saban and Meyers were nobodies. Nobody knew who Bear Bryant was when he came to UK...he had coached one year at Maryland. There are other coaches out there that will turn out to be premier. Perhaps Stoops becomes so. Rich Brooks only won 2 games in 4 of his first 6 seasons as a HC, only won 9 games in his first 3 seasons at UK but most knowledgeable people will tell you he is a good coach.

 

[LowCountryCat]

No, not really. We are unlikely to ever hire someone like Saban or Meyers but there was a time that Saban and Meyers were nobodies. Nobody knew who Bear Bryant was when he came to UK...he had coached one year at Maryland. There are other coaches out there that will turn out to be premier. Perhaps Stoops becomes so. Rich Brooks only won 2 games in 4 of his first 6 seasons as a HC, only won 9 games in his first 3 seasons at UK but most knowledgeable people will tell you he is a good coach.

Again, you are making the case that we can't get a premier coach unless he's got baggage. Hiring nobodies isn't a workable strategy at UK because of the recruiting disadvantage.

 

[Habiki]

We are going to find out with in the next year if Mark Stoops can coach or not. He either can or he can't.

I thought his coaching ability was pretty apparent by the way we made no halftime or in-game adjustments in the second half. Other than throwing Towles to the wolves at the end of the game, which I'm not sure qualifies as a coaching adjustment so much as a prayer.

Maybe Stoops and the staff improve as we move forward, maybe not. But I don't think there's any illusion about where he currently is with regards to his HC abilities.

 

[meteordealer]

No, not really. We are unlikely to ever hire someone like Saban or Meyers but there was a time that Saban and Meyers were nobodies. Nobody knew who Bear Bryant was when he came to UK...he had coached one year at Maryland. There are other coaches out there that will turn out to be premier. Perhaps Stoops becomes so. Rich Brooks only won 2 games in 4 of his first 6 seasons as a HC, only won 9 games in his first 3 seasons at UK but most knowledgeable people will tell you he is a good coach.

The difference is that people could watch a Rich Brooks team and tell they were well coached. He just lacked talent.

It's the opposite with Stoops. We have plenty of talent, we just look poorly coached.

 

[Calsarmy]

I started off with Blanton Collier back in the mid 50s. So been around UK football for a bit of time. A good example of a coach that didn't win much or at all in the beginning was Jerry Claiborne. 0-11 first year, but you know by watching them you could see they were playing fundamental football. By the end he had a nice teams, nothing spectacular but very hard nose. Stoops teams are simply not fundamentally sound. Stoops himself makes no adjustments after halftime. The in game mistakes are head scratchers. I like Stoops and wished it had worked but he reached his high mark as a DC back at FSU.. I think if he would take over the defense even as HC and hire an OC and get the hell out of that guys way he might well make it. I have no hope for that at this point. I used the Brohm example only to show how much we are over paying vs. results. UK spends $180 million on the football program and not sure about the rest of you but I'm expecting results.

 

[CloverforkCat]

The difference is that people could watch a Rich Brooks team and tell they were well coached. He just lacked talent.

It's the opposite with Stoops. We have plenty of talent, we just look poorly coached.

Brooks did have talent thelast 4 years of his tenure, he and his staff recruited and developed such players as Woodson, Little, Johnson, Tamme, Burton, Woodyard, Trevathan, Peters, Pryor, Locke, Jenkins, Lyons, Cobb etc. In hindsight, he did a really nice job !

 

[meteordealer]

Brooks did have talent thelast 4 years of his tenure, he and his staff recruited and developed such players as Woodson, Little, Johnson, Tamme, Burton, Woodyard, Trevathan, Peters, Pryor, Locke, Jenkins, Lyons, Cobb etc. In hindsight, he did a really nice job !

I'm referring more to high school rankings. Most of Brooks players were 2 and 3 star guys that he coached up into NFL draft picks. If Brooks could have recruited the types of players that Stoops is bringing in, we would have won an SEC Title by now.

I remember the game we won at Auburn when Brooks was here. We finished the game with ZERO penalties. That was a very well coached team.

 

[JasonS.]

Malzahn had a college head coaching gig before Auburn.

 

[fuzz77]

If you don't want to compare Franklin and Stoops, fine. Instead, look at Dan Mullen. This guy was a coordinator at a top level school and became HC at Miss St. Not the easiest of places to win at and he inherited a similar mess at a program with about the same tradition and resources AND playing in the tougher SEC West as well. Look at what he's done in 7 years. Made a bowl game in every year except his first and they are almost always in the Top 25 and fun to watch. Either you can coach or you can't. You don't need 5 years to figure that out. It's obvious this staff is going to fail.

My mention of Franklin was to point out that success in one job doesn't always translate into success at the next one. Dan Mullen is a good coach who has a great player in Prescott. You know that Joker got us to a bowl game with Cobb...but there is no doubt that he's done a great job.

IMHO the jury is out on Stoops. He's obviously not a coaching savant but that doesn't mean he can't develop into a good coach. There are plenty of coaches who struggled in their first years as a HC and got better with time. The question is, can CMS be one of those coaches?
I will admit I am as frustrated as anyone. I left the Vandy game this year at halftime...something I never do. As I made the 3+ hour drive home I turned on E Street Radio and listened to Springsteen because I didn't/couldn't listen or think about football. I didn't pick up the paper, listen to KSR or any other sports talk or look at this message board for several days because I knew it would just put me in a foul(er) mood.
I'm in the camp that thinks that something went sour in the locker room this year. The team we saw at the end of the year wasn't the same one we saw at the beginning. Those things aren't always in the coach's control...but the responsibility and duty to fix it, is.

 

[fuzz77]

I'm referring more to high school rankings. Most of Brooks players were 2 and 3 star guys that he coached up into NFL draft picks. If Brooks could have recruited the types of players that Stoops is bringing in, we would have won an SEC Title by now.

I remember the game we won at Auburn when Brooks was here. We finished the game with ZERO penalties. That was a very well coached team.

First, there is no way to compare 2 and 3 star talent from 10+ years ago to 2 and 3 star talent today. In 2004 Alabama signed 6 2* players, Auburn signed 13. The ratings scale has drastically changed.
Players don't get "coached up" into NFL draft picks. The NFL drafts talent and either you have the talent or you don't...and few of Brook's higher rated, 4* players developed to their perceived potential. Woodson is probably the only one that met his potential.

As for penalties...last year Swindle was good for 2-3 illegal procedure penalties a game, I can't recall him having one this year. This year we were middle of the pack(52nd) in penalties per game...fewer than Florida, Alabama, Ole Miss, Vandy, LSU, Texas A&M, Louisville, WKU, Michigan, Florida St...what killed us was the timing of those penalties.

 

[GJNorman1]

My mention of Franklin was to point out that success in one job doesn't always translate into success at the next one. Dan Mullen is a good coach who has a great player in Prescott. You know that Joker got us to a bowl game with Cobb...but there is no doubt that he's done a great job.

IMHO the jury is out on Stoops. He's obviously not a coaching savant but that doesn't mean he can't develop into a good coach. There are plenty of coaches who struggled in their first years as a HC and got better with time. The question is, can CMS be one of those coaches?
I will admit I am as frustrated as anyone. I left the Vandy game this year at halftime...something I never do. As I made the 3+ hour drive home I turned on E Street Radio and listened to Springsteen because I didn't/couldn't listen or think about football. I didn't pick up the paper, listen to KSR or any other sports talk or look at this message board for several days because I knew it would just put me in a foul(er) mood.
I'm in the camp that thinks that something went sour in the locker room this year. The team we saw at the end of the year wasn't the same one we saw at the beginning. Those things aren't always in the coach's control...but the responsibility and duty to fix it, is.

My thoughts exactly. The Vandy game was HORRIFIC. I'm still behind Stoops, but my confidence is rumbling. What city do you live in?

 

[jte123]

There is not a yellow brick road perfect path. A good coach will correct his short comings and will show leadership at all levels to as he ascends.

However, mid-level jobs are much easier than top level.

The money is irrelevant to me.

We are going to find out with in the next year if Mark Stoops can coach or not. He either can or he can't.

we already know the answer to this question

 

[meteordealer]

First, there is no way to compare 2 and 3 star talent from 10+ years ago to 2 and 3 star talent today. In 2004 Alabama signed 6 2* players, Auburn signed 13. The ratings scale has drastically changed.
Players don't get "coached up" into NFL draft picks. The NFL drafts talent and either you have the talent or you don't...and few of Brook's higher rated, 4* players developed to their perceived potential. Woodson is probably the only one that met his potential.

As for penalties...last year Swindle was good for 2-3 illegal procedure penalties a game, I can't recall him having one this year. This year we were middle of the pack(52nd) in penalties per game...fewer than Florida, Alabama, Ole Miss, Vandy, LSU, Texas A&M, Louisville, WKU, Michigan, Florida St...what killed us was the timing of those penalties.

What killed us is an incompetent/inexperienced coaching staff.

 

[blugrazz]

UK is unfortunately in a class of Division 1 football programs that has to over value their coaching staff. No one in their right mind would sign up to coach here for less than a million. Its can be a career killer stop that requires enough cash on hand to rebuild your resume elsewhere.