Recruiting Plan B?

[PurpleFaze]

If he has a problem, it is putting together a complete team. THe present team has really solid parts but sometimes it seems like they do not fit together as well as needed. I believe this is growing pains that he will overcome as he sees what does and does not work. For example, he has seen the value that Sanjay brought the team and he is now turning Gaines into that guy. He has who he thought was his LG but that fell through so he is having to adjust. He will get there.

Takes some time especially at a school like NU to get the recruiting established. Last class and the upcoming one at least based on rankings appear to be two of the best at NU all time. I like the current direction and feel he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt until the current frosh class are Jrs/Srs. If the team still has holes then it's time to start asking some hard questions,

The problem with the current squad is we have seniors and frosh, but little in between. Basically 2 guys from the middle classes that contribute to any extent and one of them (Turner) is in first year of game action here.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

A lot of the general public would disagree with you regarding Tulane and RIce. Maybe they aren't in the discussion because their athletic programs are inferior. Guess Collins will just have to continue to struggle, while Fitz gets academic help with recruiting. Why is that ok?

Because Fitz has earned it.

 

[mickbula]

I am a little confused. I know that it is really tough to get into NU- and that everybody that gets in should have earned it. But wouldn't the NU admissions staff be helping our school if they just admitted a couple of the athletes that schools like Duke and Stanford does for sports like basketball? We should have room for them in dorms right?? Wouldn't the exposure and histrionics that NU would enjoy if we made it to say...the Final Four like Duke does all the time pay several times over for the $300k it takes to give each bball player a scholarship?? Seems like Duke's ratings academically aren't damaged by admitting lower tier students to play for their school's teams?? And as for Stanford...almost nobody gets in there- but some more lower tier than Nu standards for athletes do- and that hasn't hurt their rankings either. So what is the logic with our admissions staff?? Why won't they help CCollins out and let some studs in to improve our team??

 

[freewillie07]

It’s not reasonable to equate basketball and football recruiting. Five guys on the basketball court at one time versus 11 on offense and 11 on defense in football.

Fitz’s challenge has long been to generate “competitive depth,” by raising the floor on our recruiting classes so the likelihood that a given recruit will develop into a Big Ten quality player as an upperclassman is high. If you do that constantly, you will field a competitive team year in and year out. Mix in a few high-impact freshmen, and you have a division champion.

Collins doesn’t really have the luxury of giving guys years to develop. Not in the Big Ten. Nance is a perfect example of this. He’s the crown jewel of the recruiting class, yet is lost out there as a freshman. In order to win NOW, NU needs him to be better.

Let’s contrast that with Earnest Brown in football. The guy was a phenomenal recruit, yet only showed flashes in his first year. But by the end of this past season, he started making real impact plays. NU didn’t need him to be a star right away because of the quality of the guys already on the team.

All this is a long way of saying that Collins is in a very difficult position. He has a very small subset of recruits that are a fit academically and can be impact players in the conference. He’s been so close, with Jordan Goodwin, Brad Davison, Cormac Ryan, etc.

Just gotta start hitting, not sure what else there is to say. I’m still confident it’ll happen.

 

[hdhntr1]

Okay WickerTurk, let me ask you, how low do you want to go when it comes to academics?

Here are some facts, taken from the 2017-2018 common data set, for first year students:

SAT, 25 percentile: 1420
SAT, 75 percentile: 1560

ACT, 25 percentile: 32
ACT, 75 percentile: 35

1% had SAT Math in 500-599 range, and 1% were 400-499.
3% had SAT Verbal in 500-599 range, and 1% were 400-499.

1% had ACT in the 18-23 range.

100% were in the top 25% of their graduating class.

So it looks like we do have kids who didn't score well on standardized testing, as long as they put in honest work in the classroom to finish at least in the top 25% of their class.

We know that Ryan Greer got accepted with a 1310 SAT, not a bad score, but which places him in the bottom 25% of the incoming freshman class. The PWO kicker from Alabama reported a 24 ACT, a decent score, but which is almost at the bottom 1% of the class.

As GCG and others have mentioned, NU takes athletes with even lower scores than these two that I mentioned.

Note that 37,000 kids applied to Northwestern last year, with 9% being accepted. Every kid is fighting for a spot, and to gift a spot worth more than $300K over 4 years to an athlete who is underprivileged is something that NU apparently does, but not enough to liking of some ignorant fans. You can only give away so many spots. That's why Fitz, Collins, and other NU coaches have some of the most challenging jobs in the country.

A total of 85 in FB (plus maybe some PWO) and 13 in BB

 

[hdhntr1]

It’s not reasonable to equate basketball and football recruiting. Five guys on the basketball court at one time versus 11 on offense and 11 on defense in football.

Fitz’s challenge has long been to generate “competitive depth,” by raising the floor on our recruiting classes so the likelihood that a given recruit will develop into a Big Ten quality player as an upperclassman is high. If you do that constantly, you will field a competitive team year in and year out. Mix in a few high-impact freshmen, and you have a division champion.

Collins doesn’t really have the luxury of giving guys years to develop. Not in the Big Ten. Nance is a perfect example of this. He’s the crown jewel of the recruiting class, yet is lost out there as a freshman. In order to win NOW, NU needs him to be better.

Let’s contrast that with Earnest Brown in football. The guy was a phenomenal recruit, yet only showed flashes in his first year. But by the end of this past season, he started making real impact plays. NU didn’t need him to be a star right away because of the quality of the guys already on the team.

All this is a long way of saying that Collins is in a very difficult position. He has a very small subset of recruits that are a fit academically and can be impact players in the conference. He’s been so close, with Jordan Goodwin, Brad Davison, Cormac Ryan, etc.

Just gotta start hitting, not sure what else there is to say. I’m still confident it’ll happen.

Better to say that there are 4 guys on scholarship for every spot on O and D while in BB there at only 2.5 for each guy on the court. Whole lot less leeway. Throw in open scholarship or injury or guy not buying into the system and that margin of error is gone

 

[hdhntr1]

Takes some time especially at a school like NU to get the recruiting established. Last class and the upcoming one at least based on rankings appear to be two of the best at NU all time. I like the current direction and feel he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt until the current frosh class are Jrs/Srs. If the team still has holes then it's time to start asking some hard questions,

The problem with the current squad is we have seniors and frosh, but little in between. Basically 2 guys from the middle classes that contribute to any extent and one of them (Turner) is in first year of game action here.

And we are short at the guard position so it is hard to have a complete team ready to compete

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

NU takes student-athletes with MUCH lower scores than 1310 SAT or 26 ACT (Finison’s self-reported score).

Yes. Northwestern's relatively lofty academic status can skew perception of scores. A 1310 is actually a damn good score at most places, even though the College Board some years back made a scoring adjustment that makes a 1300 easier to attain. It's just not a great score at Northwestern. Moving from a small Pa. state school to graduate school at NU, the greatest difference I noticed was the caliber of the student body rather than the teaching. The teaching was somewhat better on average, although not earthshakingly so, but the average student I encountered at NU would have been top 5 percent at my state school. We'd have few athletes at all if we required a 1310, and that's no knock against the athletes.

 

[hdhntr1]

Takes some time especially at a school like NU to get the recruiting established. Last class and the upcoming one at least based on rankings appear to be two of the best at NU all time. I like the current direction and feel he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt until the current frosh class are Jrs/Srs. If the team still has holes then it's time to start asking some hard questions,

The problem with the current squad is we have seniors and frosh, but little in between. Basically 2 guys from the middle classes that contribute to any extent and one of them (Turner) is in first year of game action here.

That you can put on injuries, transfers and guard recruiting misses coupled with the Lathon fiasco.

 

[hdhntr1]

Wicker, you are wrong as Taphorn was recruited by Carmody, but when he was fired Tap and his family were looking elsewhere and Collins went down to Pekin and talked to the family and got him to stay with his commitment. We never went to the NIT it was the NCAA. Sanjay Lumpkin was the only Carmody recruit on the NCAA team.

Tap was on that team as well. Are you counting him as a BC recruit or a CC recruit?

 

[Medill90]

Note that 37,000 kids applied to Northwestern last year, with 9% being accepted. Every kid is fighting for a spot, and to gift a spot worth more than $300K over 4 years to an athlete who is underprivileged is something that NU apparently does, but not enough to liking of some ignorant fans. You can only give away so many spots. That's why Fitz, Collins, and other NU coaches have some of the most challenging jobs in the country.

It's not really a gift. NU does pretty well financially with television revenue from basketball and football.

I don't have access to NU's admissions data, but an NU dean told me that the admission of virtually every revenue sports student was an exception to academic standards.

So, the underprivileged kids are getting the same pass as the white, middle class kids from Texas recruited to play football.

The question is, given the different life experiences and academic experiences, is, say, a 24 ACT the same for both? If, for example, the white middle class kid had access through his high school classes to 90% of the content on the ACT and the underprivileged kid did not, is that really the same. If, say, the underprivileged kid was taught less than half of what was on the ACT and scored a....I don't know...19...is that more impressive?

 

[PurpleFaze]

I am a little confused. I know that it is really tough to get into NU- and that everybody that gets in should have earned it. But wouldn't the NU admissions staff be helping our school if they just admitted a couple of the athletes that schools like Duke and Stanford does for sports like basketball? We should have room for them in dorms right?? Wouldn't the exposure and histrionics that NU would enjoy if we made it to say...the Final Four like Duke does all the time pay several times over for the $300k it takes to give each bball player a scholarship?? Seems like Duke's ratings academically aren't damaged by admitting lower tier students to play for their school's teams?? And as for Stanford...almost nobody gets in there- but some more lower tier than Nu standards for athletes do- and that hasn't hurt their rankings either. So what is the logic with our admissions staff?? Why won't they help CCollins out and let some studs in to improve our team??

I don't know all the details and the quantity of kids they exempt who are athletes, but I know my son who is a student at NU in engineering got a 35 on his ACT while a female volleyball player at his high school had to get a 27 I believe. There is some slack being cut, don't know how much or how often.

Seeing there are only about a dozen scholarship kids for basketball I find it hard to believe that if there is mutual desire between Collins and a kid to attend that it doesn't get worked out.

 

[hdhntr1]

Takes some time especially at a school like NU to get the recruiting established. Last class and the upcoming one at least based on rankings appear to be two of the best at NU all time. I like the current direction and feel he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt until the current frosh class are Jrs/Srs. If the team still has holes then it's time to start asking some hard questions,

The problem with the current squad is we have seniors and frosh, but little in between. Basically 2 guys from the middle classes that contribute to any extent and one of them (Turner) is in first year of game action here.

Both look pretty solid. Real question is if they fill ALL the holes we need filled. This year we are seeing how life without a PG is lived. PGs are likely more important in the college game than the pros so life without one is tough. Shows how important it is that recruiting is not just getting high level talent but also how well you put a complete team together.

 

[hdhntr1]

I am a little confused. I know that it is really tough to get into NU- and that everybody that gets in should have earned it. But wouldn't the NU admissions staff be helping our school if they just admitted a couple of the athletes that schools like Duke and Stanford does for sports like basketball? We should have room for them in dorms right?? Wouldn't the exposure and histrionics that NU would enjoy if we made it to say...the Final Four like Duke does all the time pay several times over for the $300k it takes to give each bball player a scholarship?? Seems like Duke's ratings academically aren't damaged by admitting lower tier students to play for their school's teams?? And as for Stanford...almost nobody gets in there- but some more lower tier than Nu standards for athletes do- and that hasn't hurt their rankings either. So what is the logic with our admissions staff?? Why won't they help CCollins out and let some studs in to improve our team??

Add that the spots for FB and BB scholarships are already set aside. The thought that they need to be able to get through is a reasonable criteria but to be significantly more stringent than that does not make much sense.

 

[hdhntr1]

Okay WickerTurk, let me ask you, how low do you want to go when it comes to academics?

Here are some facts, taken from the 2017-2018 common data set, for first year students:

SAT, 25 percentile: 1420
SAT, 75 percentile: 1560

ACT, 25 percentile: 32
ACT, 75 percentile: 35

1% had SAT Math in 500-599 range, and 1% were 400-499.
3% had SAT Verbal in 500-599 range, and 1% were 400-499.

1% had ACT in the 18-23 range.

100% were in the top 25% of their graduating class.

So it looks like we do have kids who didn't score well on standardized testing, as long as they put in honest work in the classroom to finish at least in the top 25% of their class.

We know that Ryan Greer got accepted with a 1310 SAT, not a bad score, but which places him in the bottom 25% of the incoming freshman class. The PWO kicker from Alabama reported a 24 ACT, a decent score, but which is almost at the bottom 1% of the class.

As GCG and others have mentioned, NU takes athletes with even lower scores than these two that I mentioned.

Note that 37,000 kids applied to Northwestern last year, with 9% being accepted. Every kid is fighting for a spot, and to gift a spot worth more than $300K over 4 years to an athlete who is underprivileged is something that NU apparently does, but not enough to liking of some ignorant fans. You can only give away so many spots. That's why Fitz, Collins, and other NU coaches have some of the most challenging jobs in the country.

It is not a gift. It is a position set aside for a student athlete that they work very hard for and NU gets as much or more out of them than they get out of NU. That they have the capability to reasonably be able to get through a program at NU is an acceptable restriction but anything beyond that is pretty much BS.

 

[docrugby1]

Like a lot of your posts, you criticize and ***** while being ignorant of facts. I know you often do it too get attention and start discussions, I get it, but don't be so blatantly obvious.

Northwestern is "ruthless" because it tries to hold to its academic and apparently ethical standards? We know other excellent academic institutions like Duke, Vandy, N* D* have lowered their standards significantly, compromising academic integrity to chase the almighty dollar. They also are not hesitant to cover up for their athletes, including crimes. How low should we go?

Manslaughter but no murder