And your point? We are talking about high school credentials, you Mensa candidate. Mullen hasn't wrestled in college yet.
Recruiting
- Thread starter Racpack
- Start date
Randy Lewis wrestled for 7th place with a broken arm at the NCAA tournament. I saw it first hand. No excuses in my book. Busiello...an isolated incidence in Caels's tenor. We've had several top recruits that were flops. Other programs didn't have to offer money to Aragona, because they already had serious studs lined up.I love how some people still can't stop harping on a 2008 recruit that came when we had 2.9-4.4 schollies, limited training partners, and had a ton of injuries and some other off the mat stuff. Let it go already. As for Aragona, can we first talk about Cael failing to develop Busiello, a 3X Super 32 champ and 5X NYS champ that lost to Aragona at BTS... What other top 5-10 programs pushed hard to land Aragona and offered serious $? We have to take some risks and they didn't work out.
It happens, but we developed plenty of others, just look at the AAs we've had.
We’ve only recruited 3 elite(top10 p4p) recruits.. Ash- national champ, Aragona- flop, Winston- made bloodrounds if he wasn’t injured prolly AA… even Alton twins/Gullibon underperformed under Cael bc they were partially injured.. now Howard injured.. let’s see how he finishes his career…
Camp/Mason were elite recruits coming out of hs but flopped out their previous schools before coming here.. Mason actually did better here(being ranked as high as 3rd nationally) but couldn’t pull it together at nationals. And Suriano… he’s going to be a champ regardless where he is…
We have had a lot of flop recruits from the guys ranked 15-50 p4p tho.. think Poz/Turley only guys from here to AA.. all of our other AA were ranked 50+ p4p or some not even ranked… Perrotti, Theobold, Delvechio,
What he’s saying is there is no world where Aragona and Winston have/had similar credentials. Mullen could be either one. He could also be Kyle Snyder. How will we know? We won’t until it happens. And I’d rather we find it out either way in our room than watch him be successful elsewhere.
I'd say you are off base here. It's the overall talent levels coming in (recruiting) where we are lacking. When I say lacking, I am comparing to the programs we aspire to be. Yes, we are bringing in NJ state champs, but many of these state champs are not national or even regional level recruits. Their offensive capabilities and aggressiveness do not match those recruits of PSU, OSU, Iowa, etc. There are only so many of that caliber, and we arent getting alot of them. That being said, Poz and Turley AA'd very early. Sammy was good as a freshman. Bulsak became an AA at Rutgers. MVB developed into a nice surprise. Olivieri has the skills and aggression (along with Turley) that I wish to see up and down the lineup. Rivera was Rivera. How is that poor development?
How is what poor development? You didn't give any examples except MVB who did better than expected but inconsistent. Everyone else you mentioned were first-year guys. I think development means year-over-year improvement. It's not a good sign when freshman year is their best. Soriano came ready to win. I think Ahnault was the same pedigree yet it took six years to win. A lot was expected from Winston but he did not develop. He was equal to Jason Welch out of high school. Welch finished second his senior year and was a threat all years. The development issue can be argued and debated forever but statistics tell the story. Looking at the year-over-year performance of the vast majority of Rutgers wrestlers does not tell a good story. Look at win/loss records over the years. You can't just point to one or two individuals on either side of the argument, look at the kids that have been here for a few years. A good program has to show improvement in all or most of their wrestlers. Olivieri and White in their second years will be telling. Will Poz recover and be better than his first year?
Both Mullen and Winston before him were multi-time state champs. If Mullen repeats again, they'll both have been three-timers and both could have been four-time champs if not for circumstances. Aragona won his senior year after finishing 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd in previous years. I have trouble making sense of how he was ranked number one in the country. Coming out of high school, I think Winston and Mullen are more deserving of their rankings. Aside from those comparisons, I have doubts that Mullen will be a title threat and will probably have a greater impact at Rutgers than if he chooses one of the top wrestling schools where he could end up second string. Then again, he could surprise if he actually chooses to wrestle in college.
Hs wrestling rankings are more of what have u done for me recently.. obv it helps if you have a great track record throughout but some people fall off.. Aragona won everything under the sun his senior year so it’s not unheard of he continued that trajectory going into college…he every deserved his ranking… I do notice that if a hs wrestler is elite his freshman n throughout hs they usually translate well into college..
Based on their high school career, how would the development of these former Rutgers recruits be rated? Excluded current team members and mid-career transfers such as Campolattano, Rivera, and Suriano.
Aguliar
Aragona
Ashnault
Correnti
Dellefave
DelVecchio
Dippery
Giraldo
Glasgow
Gravina
Greenwald
Grello
Langel
Mackall
Mason
Melde
Mulligan
Perrotti
Robinson
Russo
Smith
Theobold
M. Van Brill
J Van Brill
Visicaro
White
Winston
Aguliar
Aragona
Ashnault
Correnti
Dellefave
DelVecchio
Dippery
Giraldo
Glasgow
Gravina
Greenwald
Grello
Langel
Mackall
Mason
Melde
Mulligan
Perrotti
Robinson
Russo
Smith
Theobold
M. Van Brill
J Van Brill
Visicaro
White
Winston
Shawver and Bulsak didnt improve this year? Turley came from true freshman and one match to AA the following year. That's improvement. Then had a couple injuries even when people (including you) didnt think so. MVB? Improvement. Look at O'Neill. Outta nowhere qualified for nationals and got two wins. Some of these guys and the rest of the team are so young there's hardly a track record to gauge development. My response was to Matt who said development was "poor at best". Given those examples above, does that appear poor to you? That's the ONLY thing I questioned.
The people who deny the improvement wrestlers make here always make excuses when you give examples.
Suriano and Ashnault? No they don’t count they were always going to win.
Rivera and Bulsak? Oh they were transfers, they don’t count.
Poz? Turley? Alvarez? They don’t count they were freshmen when they had success
All these people would rather focus on Aragona and Glasgow instead of the dozens of wrestlers that have progressed nicely. Some people would even rather reference wrestlers that graduated a decade ago.
Every school has hits and misses… d1 college wrestling is hard..
Aguliar-c-
Aragona-d
Ashnault-A
Correnti-c-
Dellefave-c-
DelVecchio-b+
Dippery-d
Giraldo-f
Glasgow-f-
Gravina-b
Greenwald-c
Grello-d-
Langel-c+
Mackall-c-
Mason c
Melde c
Mulligan d
Perrotti a
Robinson c
Russo b+
Smith b
Theobold b+
M. Van Brill d
J Van Brill c+ to b
Visicaro d
White b
Winston d
Aragona-d
Ashnault-A
Correnti-c-
Dellefave-c-
DelVecchio-b+
Dippery-d
Giraldo-f
Glasgow-f-
Gravina-b
Greenwald-c
Grello-d-
Langel-c+
Mackall-c-
Mason c
Melde c
Mulligan d
Perrotti a
Robinson c
Russo b+
Smith b
Theobold b+
M. Van Brill d
J Van Brill c+ to b
Visicaro d
White b
Winston d
That's really rich coming from you. -Those other people making excuses- Really? I have been a no-excuse person here, challenging the excuses and holding the program responsible. .. AND catching flak from it. And you? "Oh, we just can't do it, we don't have enough money, the coaches are doing all they can, the kid didn't pan out, you're a Penn State fan". You have no intraspection.
Theobold. 0 state championships. Only a 2 time state place winner. Became an all American at Rutgers… B+ development.
Absolutely comical. Whatever fits the agenda.
Absolutely comical. Whatever fits the agenda.
I think you're being generous to Robinson and too tough on MVB. Dippery and Mackall went on to do well elsewhere. All Aragona has to do is wrestle and he'll do better where he is. Honestly, Winston had a good record, just didn't match expectations.
The point you're totally missing is that picking the exceptions does not make an argument. Imagine someone saying the Pigmy tribe are of small stature - you're the guy who shouts out that you know one over five feet.
Gawd, I really don't like getting into pissing matches or lowering myself to calling names like you do. But you really telegraph some things. There is no way you make a living in technology or any field that requires logic and reasoning. I'm guessing car sales, union job, or government or some combination of those.
Oh no, you aren't Goodale are you? THAT would be frightening.
A B+ is a solid grade, my friend. Now if we were talking about Mitch Clarke from Okie State, and what he did, then it would be worthy of A for a "rags to riches" story. Clarke by the way, for those in the dark, had a losing record the entire year, unseeded and ran through the NCAA tournament to a title.
Some of these grades make no sense… you have guys that never broke the starting lineup ranked higher then ncaa qualifiers ?_____? Lol
In what world is having a losing record good development? If anything that’s poor development followed by a flukey run
Who?
In 1998, Mitch Clark was the #1 seed and had only 1 loss his senior year when he won an NCAA title (he was 34-4 the year before when he finished 2nd). I have no idea who he is referring to.
Crackers must be taking advantage of the legal weed now available in many states around the country. In this same thread, it appears he thinks MVB was the only recent wrestler to show some sort of improvement under Goody, backed him at the end of the season, and was impressed by his development. Then he turns around and gives him a D grade. Mind boggling.
Sorry, it was mark Branch. Was just trying to make a point. MVB, got my praise for turning his career around in the "middle" of the season. But as usual, finished up on a less than stellar note. His D ( and maybe I should have given him a C to C-), is because of his up and down career and constant faltering when it mattered. Believe it or not, he was one of my favorite wrestlers. It drove me crazy seeing him wrestle so hard and take it to top-flight kids, then lose to these lesser dudes during the NCAA's. He wasn't a choke artist but certainly did not perform when it counted. Prove me wrong.
MVB was a borderline nobody coming out of high school and transformed into a 3 time NQ. His development was fine. You can’t expect every single body in the room to be turned into a national champion. It’s not realistic.
Ummm....third in the 2021 B1G tourney. That was quite easy. PLUS, turned it around in the " middle of the season"? Didnt he win his first 10 or 12 bouts this year? Plus, see what @SCNJ said.
I'm gonna go with you being one of the coaches for the team...Pritz? I'm basing my ratings on final performances for the year. I don't think a state place winner in NJ is a borderline nobody. You can argue that with the successes of Ed Ruth.
Most one-time NJ state WINNERS are low end D1 starters. Never mind a guy who had 0 wins and went to the Big 10. You can argue whether or not MVB was a good/great wrestler relative to the conference but you can not argue his development relative to what he was in high school.
The thought of him being Goodale hit me recently, which would be even worse than Donny. If either was true, that would be terribly frightening.
That may be and they've gotten halfway there in some years. I just thought "You can’t expect every single body in the room to be turned into a national champion" was an incredibly dumb retort to crackers post.