Who cares that Whitlow Towles and Phillips are leaving? They aren't big losses.
Reece Phillips is transferring
- Thread starter screwduke
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Who cares that Whitlow Towles and Phillips are leaving? They aren't big losses.
Phillips probably wasn't going to see much time anyway but that leaves us paper thin at QB. One would have to think there was at least some degree of mismanagement of the QB position by the coaching staff.
Stoops has done well in recruiting at other positions but that hasn't carried over to the QB spot.
Stoops has done well in recruiting at other positions but that hasn't carried over to the QB spot.
That's quite the vivid imagination you have there. Why would he transfer to a school whose "next" QB is going to be a redshirt sophomore?
Look, we can argue the ability (or lack of) for all of the QBs who've transferred. That's not really the point. The point is Stoops is entering his 4th season and has one viable QB on the roster (and even he's a question mark). That's unacceptable. It just keeps becoming more clear that he has zero clue how to manage the offensive side of the ball. From hiring coordinators, to calling plays, to having an offensive identity, and now to securing the most important position on the field, Stoops gets failing grades in every area. How can anyone argue otherwise?
How is players wanting to play and leaving UK a bad thing or is a lack of leadership. IMHO, if you cant play or contribute then you should not be on a SEC team. Some people don't want to wait their turn or should not have a free ride at all.
Considering Neal Brown left for a head coach position, how do you put that on Stoops?
Because everyone knows the OC job at UK is much better than being a head coach at a respectable D1 program where you get to have your own team. You know, what most coaches dream about.
It is common knowledge that due to what I stated above, that Brown left due to Stoops "micromanaging" the offense.
I have no doubts that Stoops micromanages the offense but Brown left to be the HC at the school that first made him an OC. He'd be nuts not to take it. It had nothing to do with their relationship.
I don't think Stoops micromanaged. I think once Dawson proved to not be what Stoops thought he was, then he had more involvement.
And yes, Brown left for the head coaching job, not because he and Stoops didn't get along.
When you have seen that the HC has no idea oh what kind of offense he wants to run would you expect anything different
I can hope that things at the QB position improve but there is little evidence to support such hope
We just seem to have no clear direction on offense and the QB position in an all or nothing position with Barker
Browns move was a lateral move at best. The upside for him is that he will fully control his success at Troy. At UK he didn't control his success.
The good news is Brown may be our next HC if Stoops continues down his current path. But that's at least two years away.
I think Brown will be a better HC than assistant, this is not a knock on Stoops, I just think Brown is wired to be a head coach more than an assistant
well guys, we had a printoff of an article by Hal Mumme who flatly stated in an air raid offense only ONE quarterback should EVER take snaps anywhere. Reese had that curse/blessing of not being the qb on the field.....so he was getting to be a favorite.
If we pick up a qb/ 'athlete' recruit or two, we're just gonna be one of those teams with a frosh being the backup. Seems like that happens a lot these days.
Good luck to Reese. Hope he finds a nice place to compete.
If we pick up a qb/ 'athlete' recruit or two, we're just gonna be one of those teams with a frosh being the backup. Seems like that happens a lot these days.
Good luck to Reese. Hope he finds a nice place to compete.
How is it a lateral move? Unbelievable to even think that. He moved on to be a head coach of a very respectable program. Most all coaches strive for the opportunity to be a head coach. This was his chance and it was at a place that usually has good teams and he knows the school well as it is a place he was at before. How you can say that is a lateral move I have no idea. Unless it is just something to try to support a certain agenda.
Since when did what Hal Mumme says about football matter to anyone. He failed miserably at the D1 level and hasn't done much better as he worked his way back down the ladder.
It's fitting that he's considered some kind of football guru to a certain segment of the UK fanbase.
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This coming year will be 4 years, FOUR YEARS, With a losing record and no bowl game. This in the age where you must be PITIFUL to miss a bowl game.
Don't talk about people hating stoops in a "we know you do" sort of way. Stoops deserves to be hated at this point, and for those that continue to like and support him, you are everything wrong with our program.
I am not what is wrong with the program. Pretty sure there isn't one person involved with the team who has any clue as to who I am. It is year four. The beginning of it. But Stoops is not a miracle worker either. To think he should turn around a program with over a half a century's worth of losing and a roster that was full of D2 players is not realistic IMO. Most coaches will tell you that it takes at least 4 years to make a big difference in a traditionally good program. So why would one think Stoops could do that in 4 years here at a program that has been so awful. His first real class just finished their sophomore/redshirt FR years. That is not enough time to clean up the mess, get the proper materials (talent, facilities, etc.), build the foundation, and finish the product.
There are going to be snags and things that need to be adjusted and tweaked. There are things that need to be completely changed. But you don't know what may occur as people are not fortune tellers. So it just takes time guys. Now, if there begins to be zero improvement, then we need to look at making a change and say a guy can't get it done. Like joker. But Stoops has shown improvement every year in certain areas. Things that take a while before they impact the win/loss stat.
Saying a move from OC to head coach is a lateral move is just plain dumb
I meant "you" In a general sense.
Stop blaming 1985 on our current woes. They have nothing to do with each other, other than our fans not holding the right people accountable. If stoops is fired, so should Barnhart. We need vision, a winners attitude, and a man wanting to forge greatness here to be successful. Barnhart is light years from that guy.
Seriously, don't fudge it. We could be entering year 10 with no bowl and you you wouldn't blame Barnhart, the man in charge would you? You wouldn't call for a change at the AD?
This is why I say our fans deserve it.
Actually, at that point I would. Actually, at year 5 I would, unless again, it was another Joker situation. But tradition does play a part. When recruits are needed to win, and you don't have a tradition to sell, then you have to have other things. Like a coach. Stoops is doing that. That is why I am patient with Stoops. He is recruiting at a level never seen here before. I am willing to give him the time go develop that talent. Some spots you can see the development, others, I am waiting to see.
But I saw where you mentioned Brohm in another thread. It was reported that he said it would take him 6 years to even get this place stable. Not winning big, stable. So if you agree with getting a guy like Brohm, then why would you expect Stoops to get accomplished faster?
That being said, Stoops needs to make changes, and it seems that he is willing to do so. So for me, again, I am willing to let Stoops get his recruits to the RS jr/Sr years before I make judgement. To me, unless you do like Joker, a coach deserves the time to have a roster full of his recruits and give him time to develop them.
We can agree on lots of that. But we have large enough segment of fans that wouldn't blame the man in charge, Barnhart, even if we did miss 10 bowls. That's how sick losing becomes of you don't kill it. A losers mentality is a hard thing to break, just listen to some of our fans. "It's not MB's fault, it's not Stoops fault, it's not anyone's fault we are losers, we just are. We've been losers for decades."
This is the losers mentality and Barnhart does love these fans.
I started a thread on this. Basketball transferring rules I believe are different.
S&C, I think Barnhart has been good for most of the sports programs at UK. But until now, I think he has really dropped the ball when it comes to football. I loved Brooks, but I also wonder how much better we could have been had we invested then like we are now.
Again though, that is why I don't put a ton of blame on the coach. When they are limited, then the results are going to be limited. Now, we have the funding, with a coach who can recruit. Let's see if he can get us over the hump. If he can get us to a bowl, and then to 7 or 8 wins, one would have to imagine that the recruiting could be even better since he is doing better without winning a ton.
Again though, that is why I don't put a ton of blame on the coach. When they are limited, then the results are going to be limited. Now, we have the funding, with a coach who can recruit. Let's see if he can get us over the hump. If he can get us to a bowl, and then to 7 or 8 wins, one would have to imagine that the recruiting could be even better since he is doing better without winning a ton.
Well you are hitting this with the "it just takes more time" angle. Three full seasons is too soon. I'm going to say that isn't a hard fact and there are plenty of instances of faster turnarounds than this occurring. That being said there have been situations of showing more patience being successful. When Charlie Strong completed his 3rd year at Louisville they manhandled a one loss Florida team and pretty much had them where he wanted the program to be. Year 3. But Brooks was struggling after 3 seasons and he did well once given more time. Stoops hasn't had any scholarship restrictions like Brooks had. In my opinion, you usually know what you have after 3 years. It isn't set in stone but I believe more times than not you know if your guy is a winner or a dud after 3 years.
Well, IMO you can point to different scenarios to prove either point. What that proves to me is that every situation is different. There are too many pieces to the successful puzzle to treat every situation the same. Also, what may work for one program, may not work for the other as you are working with a different set of circumstances.
Your second sentence is all that matters. You can't do a partial job & be a success regardless of those who dupe UK university leadership & fans by giving MB an AD of the Year Award.
I have never really commented on Barnhart really. While I don't think he is AD of the year, I also believe we could do a lot worse. I am sure that all of us have things that we didn't do to well in with our jobs and things we need to work on. Barnhart is no different. It seems now he is doing some of those things. I know the reason most people think he has started is because of fan pressure, but I don't think that is it.
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Perhaps he has, but to a degree he has been dealing the cards at least in the QB situation. I would offer this
There were 2 or 3 competitions between Towles and Barker for the job, it is fairly clear that Towles won how ever many there were. As some point out Barker was the prize of Stoops' recruiting class, if that is the case Stoops had multiple chances to plug Barker in as the starter. Thru 10 games he trotted Towles out there as the starter, only in a last ditch effort to salvage the season did Barker get a start (and then only because a change of any type was needed)
Moving to the end of the season and Towles is gone, Phillips is gone and Stoops is left holding all his eggs in one basket with a make or break season staring him in the face.
We don't know what was going on in the locker room or if it had anything to do with how the QB situation was managed, but as it stands today Stoops has painted himself and the program into a corner
I truly hope Stoops and the Cats come out of this on the long end of the stick. Overall recruiting gives us hope provided he holds this class together(it looks like he will right now) The QB situation may not be all Stoops doing but it seems to me it could have been managed better.
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Thank you docholiday51. I cannot disagree with your post. When I made my previous post I was thinking of Towles poor passing stats. It will be interesting to see how Barker performs, and what we do for a solid backup. Go Cats!!
Stoops stinks until he proves otherwise, we lost to Vandy. Just beat them and we are playing in a bowl.
How is going from OC to head coach a lateral move? That's just blind hatred of Stoops. That's the succession you make in most cases in college football. OC or DC, then head coach at mid major and then you move up. Brown was never hamstrung by Stoops. I've only ever head people on here speculate about Stoops micromanaging the offense when Brown was here. I'll agree I think he had more input in Browns first year but they were both new. Stoops needs more time. Why is it always over looked that had Brown stayed one more year, we'd be talking about at least 6 wins and another bowl. Stoops screwed up hiring Dawson. I agree. But I understand why he did it. He thought his style of offense was similar enough to Browns to continue the upward trend Brown had us on. He took a chance and it turned out to be a bad one. Does anyone honestly believe this season doesn't turn out different had Brown stayed. Can anyone honestly say that they blame Brown for taking a HC job at the place he cut his teeth as an OC. It was bad luck for us as fans and stoops as a coach. I remember Brown waiting to see if he'd get a HC job before he ever even agreed to take the OC job here. One more year and I believe we'd have had at least one more win. And all this would be moot. Dawson was his mistake. But I can understand, maybe not totally agree, with his desire to bring in a coach to keep continuity in what should have been an improved offense in year three. Sucks it didn't pan out. Stoops deserves more time and a chance to see what he can do with a new OC. Doesn't do any good to start all over again. As some have said, at the very least his recruiting will make it easier on the next guy if after this year we fall flat again. IMHOP
LOL! You must be 1 of the only people who follows football and doesn't understand that playing time IS won in practice. If you think Coach Stoops was afraid that playing Reese Phillips might have scared off Drew Barker, then nothing anyone can say to you will bring you up to speed with what is really going on. When he complimented Phillips on efficiency, it was just a way of saying something positive in response to a question about a player who wasn't playing. Phillips didn't play for 2 reasons. He was hurt a lot. And when he was healthy, he couldn't win any playing time. The performance difference between Phillips and the other quarterbacks was always a significant gap.
There is no question at all that, under the given 2016 hypothetical, Gunnar Kiel would start in Gran's offensive scheme ahead of Drew Barker. Anyone who saw Barker play in November will have to concede that Barker is nowhere near being ready to play. I attended the games. So if anyone really wants to have that debate, we can have it. Barker was on the right path under the original plan to start him in 2017 after Towles graduated. However, my question is what evidence does anyone have that Gunnar Kiel is coming to Kentucky? The only place I have heard it is on this board.