Reed bailey sea of blue

[UKSanders_rivals37733]

Some think Oweh could be NBA bound. Probably explains the push for Demary as the two.

Yeah, I don't see it... Oweh seems like a guy who can be an outstanding college guy but has trouble in the NBA.

In the NBA, he lacks length, quickness and ball handling for his position. Meaning, if you are a 6'4ish SG in the NBA, you better be either really quick to overcome the length differential OR have great handles allowing you to be really crafty with the ball to out-maneuver defenders... he isn't either of those.

To me, the best move for his short and long-term potential is stay in college and work on his handles as much as possible... he will probably make more at UK next year than he would playing professionally somewhere...b/c I would be surprised if it's in the NBA.

 

[Untouchables22]

Yeah, I don't see it... Oweh seems like a guy who can be an outstanding college guy but has trouble in the NBA.

In the NBA, he lacks length, quickness and ball handling for his position. Meaning, if you are a 6'4ish SG in the NBA, you better be either really quick to overcome the length differential OR have great handles allowing you to be really crafty with the ball to out-maneuver defenders... he isn't either of those.

To me, the best move for his short and long-term potential is stay in college and work on his handles as much as possible... he will probably make more at UK next year than he would playing professionally somewhere...b/c I would be surprised if it's in the NBA.

Not to mention the HORRIFIC hitch in his perimeter shot….

 

[UKSanders_rivals37733]

Not to mention the HORRIFIC hitch in his perimeter shot….

yeah, I forgot that last piece...

if you are an ELITE perimeter shooter, that will also give you help on a first step getting by defenders...just a small body/head fake even off the dribble, and the defenders often jump leaving the drive open... see Koby Brea

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I would not be happy with that group.
I do want Folgueiras, but he is a PF, not a C. That lineup would have poor rim protection and rebounding.

Bailey at 6’10 only got 6.2 rpg (5.6 per30min) at Davidson vs smaller less athletic players than he would see in SEC.
And while I like the 41% 3pt stat, he only made 17 all season. He was 4-4 in 1 game, the rest of the season he was 13-37 for 35.1%. The 9 game month of Feb he was 1-9. No thanks!

Fwiw...we all know the Smith stuff is just ridiculous. If you take him out of that lineup, you start to see some real issues. Bailey is probably, AT BEST, Andrew Carr. And while I'm not trying to crap on Carr and his contributions, this isn't a recipe for a championship contending team. Take Smith out of that lineup and I'm not sure we're much better off than this current year. Luis is an upgrade to Oweh, but both are similar players. Luis is just bigger and probably better. Hard for me to see playing them both together. I guess I'm confused as to why folks are getting giddy about this, especially given we know Smith isn't coming here (or anywhere other than Purdue for that matter).

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

How do you know they are pushing for him as a two?

After reading that Oweh could be very well go pro and someone that has seen Demary play every game it just seems to make sense. I could be wrong of course because I am not on the staff. I think they see Demary as an Oweh cover and a guy that can back up the one. They may be content with Lewis at the one and even Johnson playing it some. Johnson has said he can play the one also. It will be interesting to see if we continue going after a true one like Dedan Thomas for instance.

 

[9timeChampion]

I’d take this guy and get another guy who can rebound. You can have both you know.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I don't think it matters why or who our fans want really lol. That dude is an athletic 6'11" of that is in the mold of Grant Nelson. If anyone doesn't want that their priorities are in the wrong spot.
MOst of our fans look at scoring, I think you would agree with that. Scoring comes from being good on defense a lot of times

Bailey isn't nearly as athletic as Nelson. Not close actually.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

Some think Oweh could be NBA bound. Probably explains the push for Demary as the two.

Some? Who? He's on ZERO draft boards. Like literally none.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Davidson has been mentioned with us quite a bit and noticed that his five schools do not include us.

 

[BarefootBeach_anon]

After reading that Oweh could be very well go pro and someone that has seen Demary play every game it just seems to make sense. I could be wrong of course because I am not on the staff. I think they see Demary as an Oweh cover and a guy that can back up the one. They may be content with Lewis at the one and even Johnson playing it some. Johnson has said he can play the one also. It will be interesting to see if we continue going after a true one like Dedan Thomas for instance.

First, the much greater chance is that Oweh comes back rather than turns pro. You've seen Demary play every game, haha, okay. I saw him in a lot of games and he was doing just fine as a PG. I have no idea regarding his pg and 2g minutes and you don't either. I would think JJ and Oweh would get most of the minutes at 2g, but again, pope is the decider on this.

 

[wildcatdon]

I like the Peterson kid from ETSU for PG. great numbers and that is all I know about him but I would bet he is one of those guys that would come into Rupp and torch us for 30 and we would say why can’t we get guards like that. Happens constantly.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

First, the much greater chance is that Oweh comes back rather than turns pro. You've seen Demary play every game, haha, okay. I saw him in a lot of games and he was doing just fine as a PG. I have no idea regarding his pg and 2g minutes and you don't either. I would think JJ and Oweh would get most of the minutes at 2g, but again, pope is the decider on this.

No, I have not seen him hardly any games. Just going by what someone that has seen him every game says FWIW. Hope you are right about Oweh. He would be a great start in building a team.

 

[Catlogic15]

I think Garrison starts. You aren’t considering how he has improved and will continue to improve in year two.

Year three.

 

[Rockford]

How do you know they are pushing for him as a two?

After reading that Oweh could be very well go pro and someone that has seen Demary play every game it just seems to make sense. I could be wrong of course because I am not on the staff. I think they see Demary as an Oweh cover and a guy that can back up the one. They may be content with Lewis at the one and even Johnson playing it some. Johnson has said he can play the one also. It will be interesting to see if we continue going after a true one like Dedan Thomas for instance.

Graf talked to Demary's father and the dad told him UK was recruiting him as a 2/3

 

[yoshukai]

We need some continuity. Garrison is just a Sophomore, but he has a year under his belt in the system. That is critical to our success next season.

Can’t run guys off because they didn’t play like a fifth year Senior their Sophomore year and first year in a new system.

Need Garrison and Oweh back. Need all the underclassmen back.

Then build around them.

I do not expect to get all the guys I listed. I think we will be lucky to get some of the guys we are currently going after.

Some of you are probably going to be really disappointed when guys like Smith never enter the Portal.

I would hope bringing in a legitimate 5 man wouldn’t “run Garrison off” but it’s highly possible. If we go into next season with Garrison and Moreno as our 5 men , we aren’t contending for anything meaningful.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

I didn't say anything about individual defense. Being a good defensive team leads to scoring
Folgueiras is a center. He doesn't move the same as Bailey. I can't even see them really in comparison with each other

No, Fogueiras is a forward. Not only listed everywhere as one, also 6'9 & 215 (so 15lb lighter than Bailey), and he plays as a outside/inside PF. So you must be thinking of someone else.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Some think Oweh could be NBA bound. Probably explains the push for Demary as the two.

I doubt it, and surely hope not. He should be one of the centerpieces for next year.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I think Garrison starts. You aren’t considering how he has improved and will continue to improve in year two.

Fwiw...most would agree Garrison regressed during the season. That's concerning.

What does he do well to make you think he's a starter? He's not an overly good passer, rebounder, or shot blocker. I'd argue he's not even a plus shooter for his position. He's tall and runs fast. Most games he was a serious downgrade to Amari. That doesn't exactly instill confidence in him playing more minutes.

 

[yoshukai]

After reading that Oweh could be very well go pro and someone that has seen Demary play every game it just seems to make sense. I could be wrong of course because I am not on the staff. I think they see Demary as an Oweh cover and a guy that can back up the one. They may be content with Lewis at the one and even Johnson playing it some. Johnson has said he can play the one also. It will be interesting to see if we continue going after a true one like Dedan Thomas for instance.

I don’t know where you read that but you need to be more choosey about what you read . Oweh is not attractive to nba people.

 

[Digger-Cat]

We have to remember, in Pope's system, the pg is actually the center. Very rarely does our 1 do point guard things, beyond getting the ball up the floor and defending the pg on the other team.
So, Demry would be good at the 1 here.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

Take Smith out of that lineup and I'm not sure we're much better off than this current year.

This year, I think we had what it would take to be in the E8 or F4, a top 4-5 team. Injuries is what derailed us!!!
It's not an excuse, it is a reason. We were able to overcome it at times (like both UT wins), but there were times that the lack of quality depth due to having to move 1-2 bench guys into starting spots, meant that if one of those guys was "off" then we didn't have much quality coming off the bench to replace him.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

We have to remember, in Pop's systen, the pg is actually the center. Very rarely does our 1 do point guard things beyond getting the ball up the floor and defending the pg on the other team.
So, Demry would be good at the 1 here.

I'd disagree with that. How much better were we WITH Butler than WITHOUT Butler? He's about as prototypical of a PG as you can have.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Fwiw...most would agree Garrison regressed during the season. That's concerning.

What does he do well to make you think he's a starter? He's not an overly good passer, rebounder, or shot blocker. I'd argue he's not even a plus shooter for his position. He's tall and runs fast. Most games he was a serious downgrade to Amari. That doesn't exactly instill confidence in him playing more minutes.

He became less of a black hole when he got the ball.
First half of the year, if he got the ball, he was going to force up a shot, no matter what, but he greatly improved there later in the season.
I also feel like he was better defensively.

 

[Digger-Cat]

I'd disagree with that. How much better were we WITH Butler than WITHOUT Butler? He's about as prototypical of a PG as you can have.

We were better because Lamont is an elite defender, but also, you cant replace Butler with Travis Perry and think we're going to be just as good.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

I'd disagree with that. How much better were we WITH Butler than WITHOUT Butler? He's about as prototypical of a PG as you can have.

We were much better with Butler, because of his DEFENSE. And defense is why Pope wanted him. He's not a facilitator / distributor (like prototypical PGs are).

 

[qwesley]

Fwiw...most would agree Garrison regressed during the season. That's concerning.

What does he do well to make you think he's a starter? He's not an overly good passer, rebounder, or shot blocker. I'd argue he's not even a plus shooter for his position. He's tall and runs fast. Most games he was a serious downgrade to Amari. That doesn't exactly instill confidence in him playing more minutes.

Not a starter on a contender. He was rated the highest of our transfers last year and people still have hope because the "former McDAA" label. Amazing how much weight that still carries years after. We did it with Damien Collins as well.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

This year, I think we had what it would take to be in the E8 or F4, a top 4-5 team. Injuries is what derailed us!!!

I'm not sure I agree. We had injuries, yes. Butler was beyond banged up, yes. But his production in the last two games was still pretty darned good. Not sure his health changes that much. Carr's back is what it was. It happens. Again, I don't think it really had much to do with his play. Losing JR hurt, for sure. I don't think, when healthy, we were a top 4/5 team. More like borderline top 10. The Duke win and both Tennessee wins is what everyone hangs their hat on to prove that point. Duke isn't even close to the team we beat back in Nov.

I've said it a bunch, I think Pope did a good job building a roster and coaching the team this year. But I think we will get those same results if he continually runs it back with that same type roster construction. Gotta upgrade talent. Can't go into next season with Otega being your best player. Can't replace Carr with another Carr prototype. That will max Pope's UK career at about 5 yrs and he'll be remembered for being "10 Loss Tubby" instead of Early Cal/Rick.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

We were much better with Butler, because of his DEFENSE. And defense is why Pope wanted him. He's not a facilitator / distributor (like prototypical PGs are).

We were also much better on offense when he got to the rim and with him starting the break. I no longer have access to it, but my guess is Butler is in the vast majority of our most productive offensive lineups.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

He became less of a black hole when he got the ball.
First half of the year, if he got the ball, he was going to force up a shot, no matter what, but he greatly improved there later in the season.
I also feel like he was better defensively.

My son and I discussed Garrison Friday night after the game.
He thinks he would be better at the 4 than the 5, because of his poor rebounding and shot blocking. Saying that he is a good on-the-ball defender. I'm not sure about "good", but at least adequate, and better than he is a post defender.
On the perimeter he is a good shooter "for a C/5", but not for a PF/4 (average at best). I've also not seen him try to put the ball on the floor and go to the rim, so I assume he can't.
I get the importance of continuity, so I'm "ok" if he stays or goes either way. But without a good bit of improvement, I just don't see him in the top 8 of any rotation that has F4 aspirations.

But Pope and his staff know more about his skills and weaknesses and basketball in general than me, or 99% of us on this board.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

He became less of a black hole when he got the ball.
First half of the year, if he got the ball, he was going to force up a shot, no matter what, but he greatly improved there later in the season.

That just means he went from awful to doing what he's supposed to do.

I also feel like he was better defensively.

What makes you say that? Nothing about his metrics improved over the latter part of the season.

My issue with him is he's remarkably emotional and immature and it has a huge negative pull on his play. I think he's fine in a backup role. If those things improve, he could get better at the other stuff. But it no doubt has a wildly negative effect on his play.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

I'm not sure I agree. We had injuries, yes. Butler was beyond banged up, yes. But his production in the last two games was still pretty darned good. Not sure his health changes that much. Carr's back is what it was. It happens. Again, I don't think it really had much to do with his play. Losing JR hurt, for sure. I don't think, when healthy, we were a top 4/5 team. More like borderline top 10. The Duke win and both Tennessee wins is what everyone hangs their hat on to prove that point. Duke isn't even close to the team we beat back in Nov.

I've said it a bunch, I think Pope did a good job building a roster and coaching the team this year. But I think we will get those same results if he continually runs it back with that same type roster construction. Gotta upgrade talent. Can't go into next season with Otega being your best player. Can't replace Carr with another Carr prototype. That will max Pope's UK career at about 5 yrs and he'll be remembered for being "10 Loss Tubby" instead of Early Cal/Rick.

Injuries happen. Yes.
But you can't ignore the fact that Carr's play diminished and was much more up & down (probably depending on how his back felt that day) after he hurt it.
Butler did play well the last couple of games, but he still missed 9 games and played a few more at a diminished level. We didn't have our backup PG the last 27 games. And our 2nd leading scorer (maybe top scorer in SEC play) missed the final 10 games.
BTW, there was also the Florida win, and even @ Miss St (@ any top 25 team) was good too.

Sure Brea was able to fill in for Robinson most games. But that meant someone needed to fill in to Brea's role off the bench. And I'm sorry, but even with his improvement, Chandler, and Noah were not ready. Not their fault's, they weren't supposed to be relied upon that much this year. So the difference wasn't in the starting 5, it was in the bench. Perry, Chandler, Noah, Almonor, Garrison is not close to what Kerr, Brea, Chandler, Almonor, Garrison would have been. We were still probably 1 quality 4/5 type player away from being a team to win 6 in a row in March/April, but healthy I have no doubt we would have been a 2 seed with a shot at a 1 seed.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Graf talked to Demary's father and the dad told him UK was recruiting him as a 2/3

What I figured. Thanks for that info!

 

[Rockford]

Saying that he is a good on-the-ball defender.

That is true.

To me, however, the big problem is that he has ZERO awareness as an off ball defender. A guy his size should be lurking to come in and block a shot as the secondary offender.

I don't know how many times I've seen BG not drop back down to block or rebound (while Williams was good at this)

BG is just caught too many times picking flowers in right field instead of doing what is mentioned above IMHO... I don't think he has this awareness and I'm afraid it can't be coached up for him.... every player has a weakness and I think this is his TIFWIW

I don't think we can get a banner with him as the primary 5 man.... hope I'm wrong

 

[rob_47]

Yeah, I don't see it... Oweh seems like a guy who can be an outstanding college guy but has trouble in the NBA.

In the NBA, he lacks length, quickness and ball handling for his position. Meaning, if you are a 6'4ish SG in the NBA, you better be either really quick to overcome the length differential OR have great handles allowing you to be really crafty with the ball to out-maneuver defenders... he isn't either of those.

To me, the best move for his short and long-term potential is stay in college and work on his handles as much as possible... he will probably make more at UK next year than he would playing professionally somewhere...b/c I would be surprised if it's in the NBA.

People say these things about every one of out past guards who end up going to the nba. Posters said the same thing about Immanuel Quickly, Cason Wallace and etc. You can try to slice it all how you want to and find the faults in these guys but if you can play you can play. Oweh is in no way unatheltic and has an nba future whether that be this year or next. I see nba player when I watch Oweh play, it's obvious.

 

[DraftCat]

People say these things about every one of out past guards who end up going to the nba. Posters said the same thing about Immanuel Quickly, Cason Wallace and etc. You can try to slice it all how you want to and find the faults in these guys but if you can play you can play. Oweh is in no way unatheltic and has an nba future whether that be this year or next. I see nba player when I watch Oweh play, it's obvious.

He's going to be going up against players that are taller and has just as much strength. What does Oweh currently do that makes him an offensive threat in the NBA? His hitch in his 3 pointer is clearly a hindrance. His ball handles are not great.

I don't recall anyone on this board raving about his defense.

Love Oweh but he's your typical stud college player that is missing the elite skills necessary for the next level. He can get by with his physical body against lower class men.

 

[Digger-Cat]

We were also much better on offense when he got to the rim and with him starting the break. I no longer have access to it, but my guess is Butler is in the vast majority of our most productive offensive lineups.

Yes, but that's because Lamont Butler is exponentially better than Collin Chandler and Perry, not because Butler was a facilitator.
Amari Williams facilitated the offense from the top of the key.
You need guards to get the ball up the floor and create cutting and screening action while Amari looks to make the required play.
What Butoer did on offense, can be accomplished from the 2 spot.
This is why Demary is a good fit. He is not going to he fully tasked with driving to create offense.

 

[entropy13]

In what areas has Garrison improved? Asking for everyone.

3-point attempts per game?

 

[Digger-Cat]

My son and I discussed Garrison Friday night after the game.
He thinks he would be better at the 4 than the 5, because of his poor rebounding and shot blocking. Saying that he is a good on-the-ball defender. I'm not sure about "good", but at least adequate, and better than he is a post defender.
On the perimeter he is a good shooter "for a C/5", but not for a PF/4 (average at best). I've also not seen him try to put the ball on the floor and go to the rim, so I assume he can't.
I get the importance of continuity, so I'm "ok" if he stays or goes either way. But without a good bit of improvement, I just don't see him in the top 8 of any rotation that has F4 aspirations.

But Pope and his staff know more about his skills and weaknesses and basketball in general than me, or 99% of us on this board.

Yeah, he's a tweener and not actually a good fit fit this offense.
He has the size to play the 5 in the SEC, just not the mindset for what CMP runs.
It's up to him to determine if he wants to play the same role Amari played, or not. If not, hopefully he transfers, because he would hurt us at the 4.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

He's going to be going up against players that are taller and has just as much strength. What does Oweh currently do that makes him an offensive threat in the NBA? His hitch in his 3 pointer is clearly a hindrance. His ball handles are not great.

I don't recall anyone on this board raving about his defense.

Love Oweh but he's your typical stud college player that is missing the elite skills necessary for the next level. He can get by with his physical body against lower class men.

I can't see any NBA GM or scout not telling Oweh, go fix that shot, then come talk to us. Question is, does he want to fix it in G-league, or at UK.

 

[Digger-Cat]

That just means he went from awful to doing what he's supposed to do.

Okay, but he was a sophomore

What makes you say that? Nothing about his metrics improved over the latter part of the season.

Don't care what his metrics showed. He clearly improved. Was he Anthony Davis good? No, but he did improve.

My issue with him is he's remarkably emotional and immature and it has a huge negative pull on his play. I think he's fine in a backup role. If those things improve, he could get better at the other stuff. But it no doubt has a wildly negative effect on his play.

Okay, but again, he was a sophomore and I trust CMP to develop him.