Toggle sidebar

Relegation/Promotion in US Soccer....

B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Lol you said the EPL is the worst league and a step above the MLS? It's the best and most competitive... Just wait , little old Pep Guardiola gonna find out quick you can't play like he did in Germany and Spain in the BPL...Jurgen Klopp learned fast and said publicly he had to completely revamp his system. La Liga has a handful of the world's best...but I judge a league top to bottom. Atletico Madrid lost to the last place team in the league today. La Liga has 3 teams and then a bunch of crap. Bundesliga is 2 teams and then crap. People misjudge how good the BPL is because the lack of a dominant team like Barca , Real Madrid, Bayern....the BPL have so many clubs that have big transfer budgets that you get a ton of really good teams that can beat anyone on any given day. The giants just had a bad year this year...but no other league has teams that compete like Leicester, Southampton, Tottenham, West Ham, Liverpool, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Man City,

The BPL could have 18 teams win 10+ games....they have 16 right now....6 more than any other league....plus the gauntlet and amount of games plus how incredibly much more physical the BPL is sets it far apart. I can't wait for Pep to try and just pass it around in his own end and play this tiki taka crap against a team like West Ham, Stoke or even a Crystal Palace....that **** ain't gonna fly and he is going to have a very rude awakening in the BPL.

The best MLS teams are getting beat 7-1 in 2 legs against Liga Mx teams from Mexico.... And you think the BPL is just barely better than MLS? Hahahahaha....funniest and maybe the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
The BPL has a crap ton of world class players...I would put money the BPL is the most represented league on national teams....and it's not even close.
 
V

vhcat70

New member
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
1,222
0
BigBlueSean said:
Earlier today I listened to Alexis Lalas new podcast and it had a dude on there that addressed what's wrong with US Soccer model...

I never really thought about it or understood it like this until he put it out there that the problem with the US Soccer model is the MLS itself. It's a closed system that discourages the very things that make soccer around the globe so great. His biggest issue is there being no relegation or promotion... The two things that ultimately encourage monetary investment, support and growth the most. His proposal is for a new federation to be birthed that governs all soccer in the country....he basically said you don't have a salary cap and you create an application process that teams and clubs can apply. You then draw up the tier system you want to implement and then you are good to go. Franchises would flock to it due to the cap reason alone. Basically all the MLS is doing is recycling money back to the investors of the clubs.
Click to expand...
I don't see how the MLS closed system is holding anything back. USA closed sports' systems produce a much wider variety of team champions, NFL in particular. Semi-closed/open systems cuts into the number of different winners. I for the life of me can't figure why Barca or Real winning Espana year after year, Bayern winning near every year, & EPL being so tightly won is a good thing & how that makes their leagues' great. Noting stops other financiers from starting a MLS rival or an open system. Net, the complaints are bogus.
 
V

vhcat70

New member
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
1,222
0
straykat said:
That argument makes no senser. The EPL has had 5 different champions in the last 20 years. La Liga has 5 and Bundesliga has 6. The MLS has had 10 different champions and 5 teams have multiple championships. Ten different champions is a better balanced league than 5/6, no matter how you slice it.
Click to expand...
Some semblance of sense there.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
vhcat70 said:
Some semblance of sense there.
Click to expand...

Maybe balanced.....but not "better"

I mean the Sounders, Galaxy, DC United, and Real Salt Lake got beat by Club America, UANL, Santos Laguna, and Queretario by a combined 15-5....

Thats Liga Mx v. MLS.....

I just think itd be better for the game here if teams like the Sounders and Galaxy had a history in an open system to foster a better economy so that instead of watching a Jordan Morris, we could see a Chicarito or a Aubameyang or other world class players... even if it means it results in a top heavy league.
 
Last edited:
D

Dore95

New member
Mar 2, 2008
2,435
112
0
I don't see how you can argue that the BPL is the best league in the world by any measure when La Liga consistently dominates Champions League and Europa League. People used to say "La Liga is only Barca and Real Madrid". Now Atletico is as good as any club team in the world, Sevilla dominates Europa League, and other teams (Villareal) are quality too. I certainly prefer the BPL style of play, and maybe the bottom 10 of BPL are better than the bottom 10 of La Liga, but La Liga has been head and shoulders above overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goingfor9
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Maybe they dominate the UCL because their league as a whole isnt as demanding. Plus they get a Christmas break.This is Atletico's 2nd time ever being in a UCL final. The other are dominated by Barca and Real Madrid. They have 15 combined UCL titles and 7 runner ups. Have a total of 4 represented teams all time.... BPL has 7.

The thing is Barca and Real Madrid are really the only teams able to handle the insane amount of debt they go in to get the best of the best and still make it up through winnings, tickets and merchandising. And lets be honest, who really gives a crap about Europa League? Whats hurt the BPL is the media money going into it now.... The middle tier teams are getting richer and are able to hold onto their great players. Look at a guy like Dimitri Payet. West Ham can pay him...its not just a given Man U can swoop him up. Now Barca and Real Madrid can come offer insane amounts of money (See Bale and his $90 million transfer fee).The problem is for whatever reason the BPL has had a cluster fluck go on with some managers of the Major clubs in Man United, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea. I think the BPL is set to kinda go crazy here soon.... Klopp will bring Liverpool to the forefront again, Pep will be at Man City, I think Mourinho will be at Man U (Rumors now of Diego Simeone being courted by Man U), Antonio Conte will be at Chelsea and that man can coach his *** off, you still have Arsene Wenger at Arsenal ( who are now finally out from under the debt of the Emirates and will spend big this summer).

I agree, La Liga has more tip top shelf talent (Neymar, Suarez, Ronaldo, Bale....)..... but IMO the BPL has much more volume of world class players as a whole...and a ton of young guys
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
The BPL could have these managers in it next year:

Klopp
Guardiola
Mourinho
Wenger
Simeone

Thats kinda nuts....And guys like Blaise Matuidi, Cavani, Ibrahimovic, possibly Ronaldo, James Rodriguez, and many others will likely be on the move this summer
 
K

Kentucky Bandit

New member
Mar 17, 2008
3,206
329
0
What we need is a La Liga/EPL Challenge! Right in the middle of the season! lol

@BigBlueSean I can't find the numbers, but teams that are in the Premier League next season are set to get some ridiculous TV money coming in with the new tv deal with NBC Sports right?
 
D

Dore95

New member
Mar 2, 2008
2,435
112
0
I'm not so sure that Klopp will bring Liverpool "back". Liverpool has been "down" for 25 years. The problem Liverpool and most of the other non-London BPL clubs face is location. It is hard to convince South American players to go to live in those places.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
To give a picture of "balance":

Amount of teams in top 20 most valuable clubs in the world:


BPL- 8 ( Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham)

La Liga - 3 (Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Barca)

Italian League - 4 (Napoli, Juventus, Inter, AC Milan)

Bundesliga - 3 ( Shalke, Dortmund, Bayern)
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Dore95 said:
I'm not so sure that Klopp will bring Liverpool "back". Liverpool has been "down" for 25 years. The problem Liverpool and most of the other non-London BPL clubs face is location. It is hard to convince South American players to go to live in those places.
Click to expand...

Liverpool was destined for a finish in the bottom half of the table.... He got them to the final of the Capital One Cup, The Final of Euro League, and with some luck could finish 5th or 6th in the league table...all this while implementing his "Style". Also Liverpool won the Champions league in 2005 and were runners up in 2008.... far from 25 years...
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Fun trivia for someone who has followed soccer a while--- ask them what BPL team has the most Champions League titles.... Almost everyone would guess Man U..... nope..... Liverpool has 5 UCL titles and 3 runner ups. They are tied for 4th all time with Barcelona. Only Real Madrid, Milan,and Bayern are better.
 
D

Dore95

New member
Mar 2, 2008
2,435
112
0
They've never won the Premier League. Prior to the formation of the Premier League they were the most successful (by far) team in English history. Despite their underdog victory in 2005 in Istanbul, I'd say that qualifies *** being down.

Klopp is great but they need to attract another Suarez-like talent there before he can truly make them elite.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Dore95 said:
They've never won the Premier League. Prior to the formation of the Premier League they were the most successful (by far) team in English history. Despite their underdog victory in 2005 in Istanbul, I'd say that qualifies *** being down.

Klopp is great but they need to attract another Suarez-like talent there before he can truly make them elite.
Click to expand...


And that someone IMO is going to be none other than Robert Lewandowski from Bayern Munich or Marco Reus from Dortmund.
 
C

CardHack

Well-known member
May 29, 2001
120,002
4,622
113
I don't see Pro/Relegation working out all in American sports. While the concept would be great to keep away from the absurd tank that takes place for Draft position in the NBA and to a lesser extent the NFL, I would be really cautious about sinking any money into any franchise if I were an investor.

The problem with American soccer is multifold: 1. our geography is vast by comparison to other soccer playing nations, making talent development and talent identity a major obstacle. The story of Clint Dempsey excepted. 2. I personally think that the pay for play model relegates the sport in the U.S. to being a suburban one; if you don't have the resources to pay, you don't have the resources to travel. I still think we have vast potential just on the merit of participation numbers alone at 30 million and think it's myth that a great soccer player isn't unearthed in the U.S. because he's playing one of the three major sports. You could roll out the top twenty players in the world and the first thing that springs to mind isn't talent or athleticism, it's skill.

With regard to the EPL...I love watching it, but I disagree that it's the best in the World as we sit today. I could just as easily say it's third behind La Liga and the Bundesliga and the reason is simple...there's more attacking talent in the other two. I remember earlier in the month a simple question posed and that was "how many of the Top ten or Top 20 players in the world play in the Premier League?" At the time I could come up with Ozil perhaps Aguero, but if you're being brutally honest the question has some mileage....it's the rumor of hefty transfer fees paid by EPL teams that I think create this mythology that EPL is far and away the best league and if I might add another...that little soccer voice in our heads when we playback great matches--even those that don't have a Premier League team on it--the announcer is invariably English. Heck Ian Darke is practically the voice of USMNT soccer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigBlueSean_rivals178247
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
CardHack said:
I don't see Pro/Relegation working out all in American sports. While the concept would be great to keep away from the absurd tank that takes place for Draft position in the NBA and to a lesser extent the NFL, I would be really cautious about sinking any money into any franchise if I were an investor.

The problem with American soccer is multifold: 1. our geography is vast by comparison to other soccer playing nations, making talent development and talent identity a major obstacle. The story of Clint Dempsey excepted. 2. I personally think that the pay for play model relegates the sport in the U.S. to being a suburban one; if you don't have the resources to pay, you don't have the resources to travel. I still think we have vast potential just on the merit of participation numbers alone at 30 million and think it's myth that a great soccer player isn't unearthed in the U.S. because he's playing one of the three major sports. You could roll out the top twenty players in the world and the first thing that springs to mind isn't talent or athleticism, it's skill.

With regard to the EPL...I love watching it, but I disagree that it's the best in the World as we sit today. I could just as easily say it's third behind La Liga and the Bundesliga and the reason is simple...there's more attacking talent in the other two. I remember earlier in the month a simple question posed and that was "how many of the Top ten or Top 20 players in the world play in the Premier League?" At the time I could come up with Ozil perhaps Aguero, but if you're being brutally honest the question has some mileage....it's the rumor of hefty transfer fees paid by EPL teams that I think create this mythology that EPL is far and away the best league and if I might add another...that little soccer voice in our heads when we playback great matches--even those that don't have a Premier League team on it--the announcer is invariably English. Heck Ian Darke is practically the voice of USMNT soccer.
Click to expand...


I think 20 is too small of a sample size. Id go probably 35ish. I'd put Eden Hazard, Sergio Aguero, Alexis Sanchez, Mezut Ozil, Kevin DeBrunye, David De Gea, David Silva, Petr Cech, Courtuois and Matic in there. Thats 10ish.... and since years end I'd put guys like Romelu Lukaku, Dimitri Payet, Jamie Vardy, Riyad Mahrez in there as well. You have Harry Kane and Erikson as well as really young guys in Dembele, Deli Alli on Tottenham that are excellent players as well.

I looked up this article for top 50 in the world----- 32 of them are on a total of 4 teams. Also these guys are the ones pumped up.... Is a guy like Bale as good as what people say? Or does the label "Real Madrid play a role in that? You see much more often guys that leave the BPL see more success than guys coming to the BPL KDB for Man City said in an interview the BPL is 10x harder than the Bundesliga. Said he did not expect to struggle as much as he did in the beginning....said essentially more teams have high quality players.

http://www.ibtimes.com/top-50-footb...ionel-messi-or-cristiano-ronaldo-best-2041929
 
C

CardHack

Well-known member
May 29, 2001
120,002
4,622
113
Bale had an awful stretch last year, but he's legit. I think with the EPL guys you listed one thing leaps out...reputation vs. performance? Eden Hazard had every bit as awful a stretch this year as Bale had last (worse really...Bale's came on a productive club that was winning despite his struggles). Top to bottom team quality is pretty good in EPL and probably most top heavy in the Bundesliga where the dropoff from Bayern Munich, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Hertha Berlin and Schalke is pretty large. The quality is so high in the top three at La Liga that it's too much to ignore. The midfield quality at Real Madrid and Barcelona is otherworldly...and to connect with what are lethal front three parings that's historic quality. I am fascinated by Dortmund in that they are similar to Tottenham...they produce these great talents and let them walk (i.e. Bale); I hope that doesn't happen with Marco Reus and Aubameyang.
 
G

Goingfor9

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2003
15,137
1,367
113
Players strive to play for Real Madrid or Barca more so than any teams in the world. EPL can't keep the greats and get them back when they enter their twilight. Ozil hazard david silva? Come on man those guys are decent players for their national teams but not for La Liga
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Ozil came from Real Madrid---- Hazard is just being played wrong this year and was on arguably the most dysfunctional team of all time. Hazard IMO is an elite player...just with the circumstances this year it all went to ****. David Silva is on the back end but he still when healthly is one of the worlds best creators.
 
V

vhcat70

New member
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
1,222
0
BigBlueSean said:
Maybe balanced.....but not "better"

I mean the Sounders, Galaxy, DC United, and Real Salt Lake got beat by Club America, UANL, Santos Laguna, and Queretario by a combined 15-5....

Thats Liga Mx v. MLS.....

I just think itd be better for the game here if teams like the Sounders and Galaxy had a history in an open system to foster a better economy so that instead of watching a Jordan Morris, we could see a Chicarito or a Aubameyang or other world class players... even if it means it results in a top heavy league.
Click to expand...
OK, we disagree. MLS is still an infant or no more than a toddler vs. these mature leagues & teams. Seems you want instant gratification from a young system & slowly building but still limited fan base. I say give it time, maybe 20 years. Look back 20 years at MLS & compare to today.
 
V

vhcat70

New member
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
1,222
0
ukwizard said:
I like soccer. I love the World Cup and the US national team. I could give two ***** about MLS and I don't want to get up at the crack of dawn to watch EPL teams I have no investment in what so ever. MLS can't support relegation.
Click to expand...
Crack of dawn - 10/11am? LOL. Heard of a DVR? I watch 90% of game on FF.
 
C

CardHack

Well-known member
May 29, 2001
120,002
4,622
113
I DVR a select number of teams...Usually Arsenal or Tottenham and they replay the Bundesliga matches so much you don't have to. I happened to be at home sick last year during the Barcelona/Bayern Munich match where Messi crippled Jerome Boateng with an inside out dribble and chip in the Champion's League. Very conceivably the three best European clubs this season are the two Madrid squads and Barcelona in La Liga.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
I understand MLS isbinnits infancy, which is anlargebreason whybit isn't comparable. I also agree the 3 teams of Real Madrid, Barca and Atletico are the 3 best ...league just isn't as deep as BPL
 
V

vhcat70

New member
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
1,222
0
BigBlueSean said:
To give a picture of "balance":

Amount of teams in top 20 most valuable clubs in the world:


BPL- 8 ( Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham)

La Liga - 3 (Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Barca)

Italian League - 4 (Napoli, Juventus, Inter, AC Milan)

Bundesliga - 3 ( Shalke, Dortmund, Bayern)
Click to expand...
So will Newcastle be top 20 next year playing in Championship vs. playing in BPL? If so, that's impressive.

Regardless, it's unreal that a club with that much value is likely to be relegated.
 
V

Violent Cuts

New member
Jun 22, 2001
26,917
1,192
0
Yep agreed. I would really like to get into the Championship division but don't know how to find the games, if it's even possible.
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
Newcastle has just had some horrible managers as of recent...they have talent...Wjnaldum is a stud, Krul is a good keeper, Mbemba is good.... Them and Sunderland have some really good players, just have to get someone in there to use them right....and their talent is all young talent.


Crazy to think Man United won't be in the Champions League next year.....you gotta fire Van Gaal right? Then who you go with? Mourinho? Diego Someone? Hell Peligrini? Just glad they are out...ID love for major **** tonhit the fan and no Manchester team make UCL....2 less destinations for players to go....helping my gunners out a little bit...
 
B

BigBlueSean_rivals178247

New member
Oct 23, 2013
20,054
1,569
0
The interesting thing about soccer for me that is nuts is these foreign leagues start in August, go non stop through may, then you have summer when there is either world cup qualifying, Copa America, the euros, the confederation cup, the gold cup or the world cup and these players have maybe 2-3 weeks of rest before pre-season cups start around the world. You have to be so incredibly fit it's ridiculous.
 
U

UKserialkiller

New member
Dec 13, 2009
34,297
35,841
0
BigBlueSean said:
The interesting thing about soccer for me that is nuts is these foreign leagues start in August, go non stop through may, then you have summer when there is either world cup qualifying, Copa America, the euros, the confederation cup, the gold cup or the world cup and these players have maybe 2-3 weeks of rest before pre-season cups start around the world. You have to be so incredibly fit it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Right, what townie c**** suckers. ****, Hatin' on MF;ers who don't know their "football". Sean, you need some help physically?
 
G

Get Buckets

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2007
4,532
1,397
92
BigBlueSean said:
The interesting thing about soccer for me that is nuts is these foreign leagues start in August, go non stop through may, then you have summer when there is either world cup qualifying, Copa America, the euros, the confederation cup, the gold cup or the world cup and these players have maybe 2-3 weeks of rest before pre-season cups start around the world. You have to be so incredibly fit it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Day 3 of BigDroneSean's soccer diary.
 
T

TheEgyptianMagician

New member
May 6, 2004
15,086
406
0
funKYcat75 said:
I wish it were viable here in the US. Good soccer is fun to watch. It's just not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

I've always felt that way, but then I never thought it would reach the level of popularity it has today in my lifetime and so quickly. The market is there imho to eventually become more of a major sport in the USA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom