Right to work.....finally
- Thread starter UKRob 73
- Start date
There won't be a race to the bottom in regards to wages.
Companies need to be competitive in the job market. In order to do so, they must have an attractive benefits package. That competition drives wages up, especially when there's a tight job market.
In Louisville, do you think some of the local warehouses want to pay $14/hour or more? No, but the market demands it.
Companies need to be competitive in the job market. In order to do so, they must have an attractive benefits package. That competition drives wages up, especially when there's a tight job market.
In Louisville, do you think some of the local warehouses want to pay $14/hour or more? No, but the market demands it.
I never said they shouldn't. You are the one scared to death of RTW. I'm just asking if unions are so great then why will this kill them as we know it?
You absolutely should have that right, and you still do under RTW. But you should also have the right to NOT be a part of you so desire.
If union's are so great, why are you so opposed to your fellow employees having the right to choose?
RTW is the dumbest idea. Yes, let's vote to work for less! What? RTW states show less annual income for workers? Who cares about facts!
Our other factory across the river in Ind. avgs 14 a hour, we avg 22 a hour. We both are gravure printing, just different customers, so apples to apples in comparison. Simple math for most......
Do you care when buyers of whatever product you make quit buying it because of the cost? Essentially rendering it pointless to worry about the dollar per hour pay since no one buys?
Just curious how this doesn't work in union shops.
So let's say for example UPS vs FedEx, does FedEx have a union? How the hell does higher wages compete?
1) I don't have any "fellow employees" (that wasn't the correct term anyways, an employee is someone that works for you, you meant coworker or colleague, but nevernmind that most RTW supporters can't get basic terminology right, let's move on).
2) they have a right to go work at a non-union shop and tell everyone they don't want to be in a union. That's their choice.
Yes. And when there are no jobs because our politicians love undermining labor and make it possible to offshore every job under the sun with no financial penalty then I guess we'll all be better off. But hey... Cheap **** on every shelf.
Your takes repeatedly make the argument for the EXACT opposite position. Just quit.
The free market should determine the wage. Unions artificially inflate wages and distorts feedback.
Rtw allows those who want to pay fees in return for union representation to continue to do so. It simply gives workers the alternate choice too.
So somehow giving an individual the freedom to make their own choice is a bad thing?
Rtw allows those who want to pay fees in return for union representation to continue to do so. It simply gives workers the alternate choice too.
So somehow giving an individual the freedom to make their own choice is a bad thing?
So why do you have the right to unionize a plant? Why shouldn't you go somewhere else? Since that's your reasoning.
And you don't own that company, what gives you the right to tell someone to go somewhere else?
And "fellow employees" is correct terminology. You are an employee, and the people who work beside you are your fellow employees.
Actually dumbass the Democratic Party is notorious for both stances. They are the pro union party and the illegal immigrant party, but never mind those facts or the fact that Bill Clinton aka "democrats dream president" passed legislation sending jobs overseas putting America in an uncompetitive situation with the 3rd world.
FedEx actually does not suck and no wonder my company uses them a lot more than UPS. I used those two companies for that exact reason.
I have said and will say I'm not anti union so I'm not trying to bash unions other than to point out your hypocrisy and fear mongering.
And once again you have side stepped the biggest question that puts this conversation to bed.....if unions are so damn great then why TF will RTW crush and terminate unions? If it is such a no brainer seems to me everyone would try to organize into a union.
You really are blind to the fact that other than fake fear mongering there is no reason to stand behind unions.
Face it.
I give 0 F's about any personal attacks you send my way man so stick to your guns and I promise I'll feed you a ton of ammo.
Meanwhile side stepped the biggest question once again.
:clap:
Face it.
I give 0 F's about any personal attacks you send my way man so stick to your guns and I promise I'll feed you a ton of ammo.
Meanwhile side stepped the biggest question once again.
:clap:
What factory if you don't mind saying. If not, I understand.
With that, where do you think they'll expand? Why wasn't there an expansion in Louisville? Also curious why the union wasn't embraced in Indiana even though they are a RTW state. I'm sure the local shop would lI've to have members in both.
Feel free to include support for why you disagree.
If the free market isn't what should determine wages, then what should determine them?
Explain your position that unions don't distort free market determination of wages.
Cost of living also equates added to dues and being forced to join along with their agendas you are paying for. There goes that simple math
Only to those who only know what the unions tell them. Be lemmings my friends.
I'm just curious why pro union people avoid the questions that get to the root of what the problem is.
Why is it only unions raise wages?
If unions are so great why are they only representing 11% of the workforce?
Also, if they are so great why or how is RTW going to destroy them, since it's so obvious they are the best?
Why is it only unions raise wages?
If unions are so great why are they only representing 11% of the workforce?
Also, if they are so great why or how is RTW going to destroy them, since it's so obvious they are the best?
- Right to work states "have much lower level of unemployment than the union states do."
Our colleagues found it was a stretch to say unemployment was "much lower." The rate as of December 2010 was 9.17 percent in the 22 right-to-work states and 9.65 percent in the 28 non-right-to-work states.
- "Six out of 10 of the highest unemployment rates" are in right to work states.
- "Numerous studies have shown" that right to work laws "do not generate jobs and economic growth."
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2014/dec/04/right-work-fact-checkers-perspective/
So you fools are pimping RTW for its FRACTIONAL (0.5%) advantages in unemployment rate with much lower wages and benefits. I'm sure RTW does create more jobs as the average worker has to hold more than one job to be able to survive after their wages are slashed to thr bone.
Idiots.
Can't the wage thing be because of specialized labor?
What I mean is let's say there is a bid taken from contractors and the job is to be prevailing wage. All of a sudden you've eliminated competition therefore created a niche group of contractor bids.
Less competition = higher bids naturally
From me asking questions to people in my life that will be affected by this what I've come away with is
FedEx pays the same as UPS
Toyota pays the same as Ford
The govt pay is **** regardless but the benefits are worth it
Union pay has helped independent non union electricians and plumbers etc. by charging so much on jobs that independent contractors can charge more than normal and beat union bids.
Key is "more than normal" lol.
What I mean is let's say there is a bid taken from contractors and the job is to be prevailing wage. All of a sudden you've eliminated competition therefore created a niche group of contractor bids.
Less competition = higher bids naturally
From me asking questions to people in my life that will be affected by this what I've come away with is
FedEx pays the same as UPS
Toyota pays the same as Ford
The govt pay is **** regardless but the benefits are worth it
Union pay has helped independent non union electricians and plumbers etc. by charging so much on jobs that independent contractors can charge more than normal and beat union bids.
Key is "more than normal" lol.
Does the states that have the highest % of union workers and the cost of living have anything to do with each other? Mostly northeast and out west.
I'm betting non union salaries are higher in the non RTW states than those in RTW states as well.
I'm betting non union salaries are higher in the non RTW states than those in RTW states as well.
Are all of you either assembly line workers or upper management of a manufacturing plant? I always find it fascinating how you political people give such a **** about something that affects you so little and that you are basically removed from in your everyday living.
Krazy - stay away from the FedEx and UPS comparison. You have no idea what you're talking about on this one as it is NOT as simple as one has unions and one does not.
They both have unions to some extent.
And i am definitely pro-business.
Carry on with the discussions / rants. I am quite sure in the next 5 pages one of you guys will convince the other to agree with your line of thinking and come to 'your' side - whichever one you're on.
They both have unions to some extent.
And i am definitely pro-business.
Carry on with the discussions / rants. I am quite sure in the next 5 pages one of you guys will convince the other to agree with your line of thinking and come to 'your' side - whichever one you're on.
Well I'm in an effort to try to get something other than
"Lower wages we will all be broke peasants"
From the pro union people. Other than that and less benefits I don't hear a strong case for why they are so great.
My issue with both is that I have never worked union. I have worked in every area of a restaurant, in corporate accounting, spent a year bouncing around trying to get into business for myself, and now I'm in sales.
I've always had good benefits, pay may not have been great in the kitchen or at entry level accounting(which both were above the avg annual pay in KY) but it didn't take me long to get past that to a decent living.
So I am trying to get these guys to explain why unions are necessary if my dumbass can find a way to scratch together a good enough living without 1 union job.
Do you not comprehend that this affects the economy as a whole? And it's not just labor/wage laws. It's all of these laws intertwined as a whole that have tilted the advantages to corporate interests. The trickle down fallacy that is gradually destroying the core of our economy. You don't really think our economy is healthy and sustainable, do you? As the consumer base is being gradually eroded?
This is not political. Or it shouldn't be. As always, the politicians that control us have made this **** political to divide and conquer. And the sheep go right along to the slaughter.
I'm sure it has some effect, I dont know what it is and it's literally impossible to find a non-biased source for anything nowadays (a whole other depressing topic) but the two people "arguing" the most about it in this thread is a GD architect that watched what I'm assuming was a documentary with a pro-union slant and some guy who has made it clear he doesn't have the slightest clue about anything union but is obviously republican so he's all for whatever the republicans say. It's just crazy to me and shows how political and stupid everything has become. I didn't know what RTW was and was hoping to gain some perspective but of course it's just same **** different day and it ends up being 80% of the thread people that have never been in a union/had experience with a union/literally ever dealt with a union in anyway whatsoever. Oh well.
I'm still on the first couple of pages of this thread, but there is at least one crazy person on here regarding the facts and choice.
Let's say there is a group of 100 employees. It only takes (prior to rtw) 51 of those employeesto sign cards and become union. The other 49 had no choice in the matter and we're forced to become union.
RTW will be a great thing for the state of KY.
Let's say there is a group of 100 employees. It only takes (prior to rtw) 51 of those employeesto sign cards and become union. The other 49 had no choice in the matter and we're forced to become union.
RTW will be a great thing for the state of KY.
False. It's tilted things in the favor of individuals who have marketable skills.
No longer will contractors pillage the state on deals, nor will unions hold workplaces hostage.
The reason it gets political is because jobs left this country for lower wages. As Trump forces them back here by creating policy that will tax those companies who are American and ship jobs overseas then sell their cheap products here we will be getting more work back.
KY has possibly lost a few thousand jobs to the surrounding states that are RTW states around us. Yes RTW essentially lowers entry level wages but there is no proof at all that it will lower all wages.
It is clear in even the union people's minds that they think they should be paid more across the board. My thing is in every non union shop or workplace people get merit raises for their work not because the union fought for or got them to strike for something because they no longer approve of their contract.
Also they do not want it to be about politics however they vote heavy democrat(except this year thankfully) who have put the rest of the world into direct competition with American labor which has dropped the wages more so than unions have raised them. Of course they don't want to discuss that because they can't win that conversation.
Ultimately it is about business, and whether we like it or not I'll take 50,000 working strong at $12-14 an hour than 20,000 strong at $18-20 an hour and apparently corporations feel the same way. Let's not pretend corporations don't give raises for those that they find valuable enough to keep.
Add to all of that in KY unions only represent 11% of our workforce and and 13% nationally........and those union people live in a pretend world that they are what holds wages up in this country.
Now call me stupid, dumb and ignorant then proceed to only address the issues you want to discuss that you "know" that you are right about.
KY has possibly lost a few thousand jobs to the surrounding states that are RTW states around us. Yes RTW essentially lowers entry level wages but there is no proof at all that it will lower all wages.
It is clear in even the union people's minds that they think they should be paid more across the board. My thing is in every non union shop or workplace people get merit raises for their work not because the union fought for or got them to strike for something because they no longer approve of their contract.
Also they do not want it to be about politics however they vote heavy democrat(except this year thankfully) who have put the rest of the world into direct competition with American labor which has dropped the wages more so than unions have raised them. Of course they don't want to discuss that because they can't win that conversation.
Ultimately it is about business, and whether we like it or not I'll take 50,000 working strong at $12-14 an hour than 20,000 strong at $18-20 an hour and apparently corporations feel the same way. Let's not pretend corporations don't give raises for those that they find valuable enough to keep.
Add to all of that in KY unions only represent 11% of our workforce and and 13% nationally........and those union people live in a pretend world that they are what holds wages up in this country.
Now call me stupid, dumb and ignorant then proceed to only address the issues you want to discuss that you "know" that you are right about.