Riley's First Hire...
- Thread starter Senior Sooner
- Start date
Well I'm sure Riley knows what he's doing but I hope we're not looking at our future DC after Mike Stoops is gone. Not saying Stoops has proven to be great but I recall McNeill's D at Tech as not being much to be concerned about for opponents. Maybe my memory is bad?
I don't know enough about the McNeil to say whether this is a good or bad hire. What I do know is that Texas Tech between 2000-2009 wasn't known for their Defense. This is when McNeil coached there. And splitting time w/ Thibideaux?
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay...hate to be a Debbie downer....
....but I hope this isn't the first step in Riley "hooking up" all his Texas Tech buddies like Stoops started doing with his Iowa buds years back that led to the program taking step back.
....but I hope this isn't the first step in Riley "hooking up" all his Texas Tech buddies like Stoops started doing with his Iowa buds years back that led to the program taking step back.
Well the fact is, hiring in any business is a syndrome of networking and hiring those you know & feel you can trust. It happens in just about all aspects of business.
McNeill was the DC for only the 2008 and 2009 seasons.
2008 they went 11-2 only giving up 380 yds/game and 27.8 pts/game which doesn't sound good but was pretty great considering it was Tech and the Big XII. However, we know what OU did to them.
2009 they were only a 9-4 team, but the defense improved again allowing only 350 yds/game and 22.5 pts/game.
In 2010 after being dumped by Tuberville, the Tech defense gave up 456 yds/game and 30.9 pts/game.
And Tech ain't OU. Lubbock ain't Norman. Bottom line, Ruffin will get to coach better athletes. That's guaranteed.
I feel a little better knowing my memory isn't great but I also agree with BillyRay's post.
Also led to a National Championship. His starting staff was all buddies except Leach and Gundy, I believe.
Mike Stoops - Brother
Chuck Long - Iowa QB coach
Mark Mangino - Kansas State
Jonathan Hayes - Iowa player
Jerry Schmidt - Florida
Were there other coaches besides these 8 (including Bob)?
I've gotta be missing some defensive coaches. I think Mike is the only defensive coach on that list aside from Bob.
I'd go farther than that. I think this hire is an embarrassment.
Ruffin is now coaching at a program unlike any he's ever coached at before. He now has OU's legacy, resources and talent behind him.....and that trumps any other program he's ever been at. He now has to rise to the occasion.
He has a Master's Degree in Counseling so maybe he can keep a few OU players in line.
He has a Master's Degree in Counseling so maybe he can keep a few OU players in line.
Brent V. Oops didn't see Plaino's post.
I'd be interested to hear why you say that, Plaino. "Embarrassment" isn't term I would ever expect you to use. Really, that set me back a bit.
Not seeing this as a good hire. The guy is a good coach but not great, I doubt he was ever in anyones, Top 25 defensive coaches, ever.
With Bob gone and Mike half way through the door. I want Mike Stoops as far away from OU football, OU tradition as humanly possible.
Bring back Venables, without, Bob and Mikes influence, he has become the best Defensive Coordinator in CFB. He's always has been a GREAT recruiter but his philosophy has been, front 7. Mike and Bob are back 7. It ALL Starts Upfront
With Bob gone and Mike half way through the door. I want Mike Stoops as far away from OU football, OU tradition as humanly possible.
Bring back Venables, without, Bob and Mikes influence, he has become the best Defensive Coordinator in CFB. He's always has been a GREAT recruiter but his philosophy has been, front 7. Mike and Bob are back 7. It ALL Starts Upfront
What defensive coaches on staff would you consider to be "great"? Getting great coaches is really difficult at this time of the year. Heck, any time of the year. We are very fortunate to have a few great ones and for the most part really good ones, but getting a great hire less than two months before fall practice is almost impossible for a first time head coach, IMO. So he went with someone he is comfortable with and trust. I don't have a problem with that. What I will have a problem with is if he keeps anyone that doesn't do the job.
Well you must know more than I do about the guy. I won't say his hiring is an embarrassment, but I guess I am viewing it cautiously. I agree with Oklabama that I'm interesting in your views Plaino on why you think this hire is an embarrassment.
I will say this in defense of BrentV. Hindsight being 20/20, BrentV was here during the years that Bob let his staff get lazy on recruiting and let the program slip. Because at the time there were ALOT of OU fans who were NOT happy about BrentV being the DC. What many OU fans think of Mike right now, is exactly what OU fans thought of BrentV some years ago. But looking back I suppose BrentV suffered from the talent level dropping at OU and most fans not realizing it at the time.
I do know BrentV has said the recruiting mentality at Clemson was like night and day compared to when he left OU. Clemson recruiting was 24/7/365. Whereas he described OU recruiting as being like punching in a 40hr week kind of effort.
And, that's the rest of the story. Good post, Billy. Recruiting is the key in remaining great.
It could stem from the fact that Plano was never a Riley fan, or rather it would be better said that he was a Huepel fan and never really wanted the change at OC. So going forward, Riley may not live up to the Plano test. Which includes this hire. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Had no idea Plaino wasn't a fan of Riley. I though Riley did a pretty solid job. He had a few games I thought he sucked, but overall I think he was a great hire.
2017 was going to be a big test for Riley though with losing quite a few weapons on offense. I was really wanting to see how he could fill those holes and keep the offensive machine rolling. I guess we will have to wait and see if he will be doing double duty as Head Coach and OC, or if he can bring in a quality OC before the start of the season.
Well again BR, I'm not saying he's not a Riley fan, but rather he didn't wish for a change to begin with. He's done a great job for a guy his age. Wins & Losses are very important and why the game is played, but he also brought an energy to the Sooners that was needed big time. That energy has resulted in improved recruiting. The same is needed for Defense.
Plaino is a big OU fan. That's not debatable. So why would anyone feel he would be anti-Riley. Lincoln is our head coach. Nothing can change that. Why, at this time, would anyone criticize Riley before he has even had a chance. Come on, man. Get with the program and be all in for Linc! Boomer.
Gotcha WNAS. I see what you mean now man. 
edit, never mind WNAS. I found my answer on the pay board where Plaino is airing it all out.
I just PM'd you and Oklabama the link to the thread.
edit, never mind WNAS. I found my answer on the pay board where Plaino is airing it all out.
I just PM'd you and Oklabama the link to the thread.
Last edited by a moderator:
I certainly recall being one of the ones ready for a change at DC when Venables left for Clemson. In the last 10 years or so has the Big 12 even had a really good defense or a well respected DC? Gary Patterson was a fundamentally good DC, his teams tackled well, etc. but it seems like that lasted a year or 2 and now they appear to put more emphasis on offense like most Big 12 teams. I know Mike Stoops hasn't looked like a world beater this time around but is he any worse than anyone else in the Big 12 or who is better than he is? I'm certainly not defending Mike Stoops, I'm just having trouble naming anyone else in the Big 12 who has been consistently good on defense. Has Mike Stoops simply struggled due to recruiting being down compared to Clemson, Alabama etc?
I've struggled with the answer to that Belldozer. I'm no football expert or genius, and I'm not pretending to be. But I do think there is truth to what you said about the BigXII just being a conference you have to put so much focus on your offense it's just inevitable.
You mention Gary Patterson. He early teams in the BigXII had some great defenses. But no matter how good your defense is, playing through a BigXII schedule it's impossible not to have a few games where your defense gets lit up. And if your offense isn't built to keep pace, then it's game over. But it's odd how teams that put so much focus on building their offenses, that suddenly their own defenses suffer. Since changing offensive philosophy, Patterson's teams no longer have great defenses anymore.
I'm really just at a loss for what the issue is. Is it because BigXII offenses don't allow for your defense to get rested between possessions if you have a string of 3-and-outs? Are programs just making such a push for offensive talent, that recruiting elite defensive players suffers?
I do know that OU no longer (and nearly no BigXII team) can consistently recruit big-time elite defensive linemen anymore. There are some great ones here and there. But when was the last time an OU, or BigXII team had a truly dominant defensive line? I really don't care how good your secondary is. If your LB's or DL's aren't getting any pressure, then it's just game over. OU gets some good talent to the DL. But no longer gets kids like the kid who went to Houston. Or the big-time kid in this past class that left the region and went to Florida State. It's been some years since I've seen an OU defensive line just dominate football games from weekend to weekend.
Sorry about the long post guys. I got a little long-winded on this one....
I would bet a lot of money that if OU has two losses early on, say to Ohio State and Texas, Riley and his coaches will feel some heat.....the fact that the 2017 team may not be as formidable as in years past, at least early on, will be overlooked.
Gotcha WNAS. I see what you mean now man.
edit, never mind WNAS. I found my answer on the pay board where Plaino is airing it all out.
I just PM'd you and Oklabama the link to the thread.
Yep. I jumped onto the premium board this morning and see Plaino's reasoning for the way he feels about Ruffin. I'm still surprised but I really shouldn't be. Unless Riley wins 11 games this year, beats Texas and the Cowboys, he is going to catch hell from a number of Sooner fans and especially Stoops fans. I don't think that's fair but it is what it is. Thanks for the heads up.
Well, Bradford was a 3 star. I hope this applies to this selection.
Everyone that has met McNeil, seems to like him. So that will help with recruiting. I've never heard anyone refer to him as a great defensive mind.
If he is the air to the throne, then yes. This is an embarrassing hire. OU needs to get back into the Houston market. For some reason about 7 or 8 years ago, we turned it over to aTm and LSU. The last 5 years, Houston has produced three #1 defensive lineman and a bunch of 4 star studs. The talent pool out of the area, is some of the best.
Ex OU football players that coach in the Houston area, have said they never even got a call or a visit from any coach at OU.
Brent always brought in some of the best LB and dlineman. He's issue was Bob and Mike not wanting to stack that position and would load up on extra DB's and WR's. Rotate 6 to 8 upfront, that have talent and the BigXII offenses will suffer.
If he is the air to the throne, then yes. This is an embarrassing hire. OU needs to get back into the Houston market. For some reason about 7 or 8 years ago, we turned it over to aTm and LSU. The last 5 years, Houston has produced three #1 defensive lineman and a bunch of 4 star studs. The talent pool out of the area, is some of the best.
Ex OU football players that coach in the Houston area, have said they never even got a call or a visit from any coach at OU.
Brent always brought in some of the best LB and dlineman. He's issue was Bob and Mike not wanting to stack that position and would load up on extra DB's and WR's. Rotate 6 to 8 upfront, that have talent and the BigXII offenses will suffer.
That's pretty much nonsense. I love what Riley has done since he came to Norman. I do think he's been a tad overrated. His sets made Perine and Mixon look pretty good. But the vice versa is true. People in the NFL have secretly, or perhaps covertly talked about Mixon as being as good as any running back for NFL purposes last year, but they viewed him as damaged goods. He made some pretty special plays, and he had a high quality guy to alternate with. It maximized how good the offense looked. Throw in Mayfield as a great college quarterback, and the Biletnikoff winner, and he had some pretty terrific weapons. Easier to look like a great coordinator, when your X's are better than their O's.
We had all that, and a great OLine, but still didn't get it done against UH or tOSU. Injuries were a big part of that. All that to say, that I love LRiley. I think it will be a much bigger test this season.
When the news first came up that Bob was "retiring" it wasn't certain yet that Lincoln was the replacement. I made my feelings about his issues known right up front. I thought Lincoln was a solid replacement, BUT ...
I'd hard more than one place, that his hiring was automatic that he'd be bringing Ruffin with him, and I said at the time, that if that were true, I'd rather we get a different coach. I think Ruffin McNeill is about as overrated as any coach in college football. He's never done anything. He's been around for more than 30 years, and his best hasn't been great. He is a quality man. Everybody seems to love him, everywhere he's been, and I respect that. But he is a guy with lousy self discipline. I don't think a coach whose weight fluctuates between 280 and 375 pounds and who can't move around sufficiently on a practice field, is good for OUrs or any program.
I've heard a ton of excuses about that. But we're hiring as the number two man in OUr football program -- at least that's what the title Assistant Head Coach indicates -- a guy whose credentials are worse than anyone on this staff otherwise. I've been called racist for opposing this hire, which is nonsense. I've asked anyone to tell me what he's ever accomplished as a coach, and other than being a mediocre HC, or a mediocre DC, nobody has told me anything that the resume' of a coach with a title of anything higher than position coach, ought to have at Oklahoma.
A guy who got fired a little more than a year ago, for being 5-7 in a conference where Tulsa, Tulane and SMU were circled games on his schedule, doesn't deserve a job on this staff above the bottom end of the staff. And a guy who started coaching in 1980, and in college in 1985, shouldn't be hired to the bottom end of OUr staff.
Being a wonderful human being is a terrific thing. But it's not a qualification to be on OUr staff. I think Kittle showed us that. He is getting this job because he's great friends with OUr new HC. And the message it sends to the rest of OUr staff is very troubling to me.
I'm shocked, that those who think Bob Stoops quit giving his best effort, or that Mike Stoops is incompetent, or that Kish should go, or any other coach that they've chewed up and spit out in the last decade, that these people seem to unanimously love the hire. I just don't see it.
I'd call him a has been, except he's never done it before. The last time he had a recruiting presence in Texas was eight years ago, and he wasn't recruiting the kinds of players that OU needs to be successful. Before the hire, I said I thought it was a horrible idea, and still believe that.
OUr new HC can hire whomever he wants, though I think maybe part of the reason Bob is gone, is because the BOR told him no about a coach he wanted to hire. This has nothing to do with my disliking Coach Riley. This has to do with a guy whose record is the opposite of stellar, but who is a wonderful man. That's not good enough.
Plaino,
Your being a bit of a hypocrite here. In the past you have critisized the people who were critical of coaches like Mike Stoops and stated a number of times no one has the right to bash coaches on the OU staff. You took exception with others when they were very critical of Heupel and yet here you are doing it to Ruffin without even giving him a chance.
I understand you dont like this hire but before throwing him to wolves at least give the man a chance.
He's had 36 years of chances and has not a single accomplishment as a P5 coach. Guy who ragged on OUr coaches, who won a conference title but it wasn't enough. That's a very different history than a guy who has this record. Pointing that out is the opposite of hypocritical.
But your saying so, tells me that you find great previous performance by Bob and his staff to be less than worthy, but this guy who's never done anything you'd claim to be more deserving.
Mike Stoops has ten times a better record than Ruffin, but you'd find few people on this site that would acknowledge that. There is where the true hypocrisy lies. And lies. And lies.
But your saying so, tells me that you find great previous performance by Bob and his staff to be less than worthy, but this guy who's never done anything you'd claim to be more deserving.
Mike Stoops has ten times a better record than Ruffin, but you'd find few people on this site that would acknowledge that. There is where the true hypocrisy lies. And lies. And lies.
Mike's defenses own some NCAA and OU records that I would bet Ruffin would never want to put his name on as well.
But you really missed Soonerborn's point. I see it crystal clear.
Plaino
You truely are missing my point. I appreciate everything Bob Stoops did at OU but he deserved the critical reviews at times as did his staff.
Riley will reap his rewards along with his staff when they produce but he will also get the wrath when they dont. Its the nature of the beast.
However Im not going going to waste my time arguing with you over this and instead choose to see how things shape out this season before already calling someone an " Embarrassing hire".
Plaino said
But your saying so, tells me that you find great previous performance by Bob and his staff to be less than worthy, but this guy who's never done anything you'd claim to be more deserving.
----------------
For the record I can speak for myself but thanks for putting words in my mouth I never said.
But your saying so, tells me that you find great previous performance by Bob and his staff to be less than worthy, but this guy who's never done anything you'd claim to be more deserving.
----------------
For the record I can speak for myself but thanks for putting words in my mouth I never said.
You called me a hypocrite for defending Bob and Mike and the other returning members of the staff. I defended myself against that charge. You made the first accusation. I believe I have the freedom to respond to that.
BR made lying accusations about me on the premium side today, which isn't unusual. Part of my reply was directed to him.
BR made lying accusations about me on the premium side today, which isn't unusual. Part of my reply was directed to him.