Rittenberg: Collins close to three-year extension
- Thread starter lou v
- Start date
Pretty funny how many of us were wishing that NU could just afford to buy out his contract a couple of years ago. Glad I'm not uncharge of anything.
Good for CC and good for the school. I'm not in love with him, but you just can't dump the guy who gets the school its second tourney bid. It would have further cemented the institutional reputation at NU.
Man ... the potential for 14 years at NU. That's a brave man.
Man ... the potential for 14 years at NU. That's a brave man.
Actually, he just finished his 10th year at NU, so potentially he'd be here at least 15 years............
Sounds like a good plan for CC. If the boys don’t come back, he has time for a couple more recruiting classes to build back up for another tourney run.
No just a 2nd tourney bid, but finishing 2nd in the conference! That’s really the most mind-blowing thing.
Yeah, I think I lost sight of that because for a minute there I hoped Nu would come in first.
Don't think it was that mind blowing as the B1G was filled with a lot of good, but hardly great teams, and even the conf champ was deeply flawed.
But yeah, it was historic.
(The Cats were probably a shooter away from winning the conf.)
I know you seem to try and downplay every success that has happened, but there’s no denying it was mind-blowing. Had you told anyone in the preseason they’d finish second, they would have made any bet you offered. Nobody would have believed it.
^ Um, no - putting things into proper context isn't downplaying simply for the sake of downplaying.
No question that the B1G was short of many very good to elite teams as seen by the quick exits in the NCAAs.
The 1st Tourney team had to win in a tougher league.
And at least I'm consistent; many a time have I stated that the FB program under Fitz should have won more B1GW titles (and earlier) since Neb was a basket case, Iowa being Iowa (every 3-4 yrs has a really good season) and Wisky having slipped over the years.
Would have entirely different expectations if the Cats were playing in the B1GE.
No question that the B1G was short of many very good to elite teams as seen by the quick exits in the NCAAs.
The 1st Tourney team had to win in a tougher league.
And at least I'm consistent; many a time have I stated that the FB program under Fitz should have won more B1GW titles (and earlier) since Neb was a basket case, Iowa being Iowa (every 3-4 yrs has a really good season) and Wisky having slipped over the years.
Would have entirely different expectations if the Cats were playing in the B1GE.
Why do I get the sense it really bothers you that Collins had such a monumentally successful season?
8th place would have been an incredible feat. Just an amazing coaching job this year.
Makes our accomplishment even more impressive in my mind. Every game was a battle. No gimmies in the B1G.
Heck, how many times have they finished even 8th (or equivalent with fewer teams) in your time watching them? Or, if you prefer, how many times over .500 in B1G...ever? SIX times. And they won a tourney game (rarity). I give Collins (and staff) full credit. Not as impressive on paper as the (only) other tourney team, but tough as nails.
Doesn't bother me at all (note how instead of refuting the points I have made, you merely resort to attacking my character).
Not only was the B1G down (lacking in very to elite teams), so was the entire cbb landscape as there weren't the usual dominant teams and the Tourney was seen as being wide open.
If the B1G had its usual 4-5 very good to elite teams and the Cats just managed to sneak into the right side of the bubble, would think that CC did no less as good of a coaching job finishing (say, 9th or 10th) instead of 2nd.
Heck, if the conference had been historically good, and the Cats just missed out on the Tourney, so ended up in the NIT, would also think the same.
Unlike you, I like taking a look at the complete picture/all the variables, which is the sane reason why I've been critical of Fitz not winning more B1GW titles and not having won them earlier.
If the Cats were stuck in the B1GE with the "big3", there wouldn't be a peep out of me for not winning a divisional title.
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Think this made the path easier.
Let's say the conference had 4 very good to elite teams, 3 bad teams, and the rest being in the muddled middle.
The Cats didn't have the talent in beating the very good/elite teams (barring someone going absolutely bonkers as a scorer), so those would be losses.
The Cats would get wins over the bad teams, but that doesn't really build up your tournament resume, so the Cats would really have to have a good record against the muddled middle teams.
This past season, the muddled middle pretty much encompassed the whole conference - which was great for the Cats because they had enough talent to compete - so they had more opportunities to play against opponents they had a chance in beating (which would also build their Tourney resume).
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So many great points. Always tough to refute your logical and well thought out arguments. You’re a message board savant.
Here’s one for you though…let’s see how you handle this:
NCAA Tourney appearances with NU:
Collins - 2
Carmody - 0
Northwestern went undefeated against every team that placed above them in the B1G. So they were beating “elite” teams.
The tournament is not a good barometer of success as one off game tournaments do not prove who the best team is. It is what makes March madness as fun as it is though. A 5-7 game series would have the best team winning the national championship more often than not as well as the better teams advancing further in the tournament.
Why can’t we have nice things and just enjoy the best team northwestern has ever had. As well as the most fun team to watch since I’ve been watching NU basketball.
Katatonic, I really don't understand your logic. Let's say I buy your theory about the "muddled middle." How can you absolutely go out of your way to crush the team who clinched the school's first .600 conference-season winning against the "muddled middle"/teams-they-SHOULD-have-beaten according to you? OTOH, after more than a decade, you continue to celebrate the guy whose teams could not achieve anything close to these heights when they couldn't compete with the "middle" like Penn State ('10-'11) and Minnesota (just pure bad in '11-'12).
Anyhow, I appreciate your honesty. I hope you'll be able to find a little more rooting interesting in the second guy after Billy C.
Anyhow, I appreciate your honesty. I hope you'll be able to find a little more rooting interesting in the second guy after Billy C.
Can’t you say this about every conference? Bottom line is you play the teams on the schedule. It isn’t CCc’s job to insure the rest of the conference is elite. The Cats beat just about all teams in the conference.
Do you really think the fanbase would be as understanding as you seem to be with losing seasons because we played good teams? I say, no way. The fans would spout that CCC needs to do a better job to compete and beat elite teams. This was one of the best jobs I have seen anywhere by the staff, yet we have folks downplaying it or finding reasons to discredit the team for its accomplishments.
Yeah, and their head coach got hired away to a bigger program.
(Actually, is Iona bigger than FDU? Either way, I bet he got a raise)
Recognizing the fact that this was a bit of a down year for the Big Ten does not take away from NU's or CCC's accomplishments. Michigan State was not a monster. Nor OSU. Wiscy dropped a fair amount. NU and PSU...and Rutgers...rose.
Catatonic make valid points.
It was a similar situation in the first tournament year in which NU was very solid (and veteran), and the top third-to-half of the Big Ten softened.
Carmody had some bad luck. His very best teams competed in "up" years for the Big Ten.
Similarly, the best NU team ever....1983 NIT team...went up against an absolute monster conference. In another year they would have danced (in a smaller tournament)
I really hope Collins sees this as a year he can step it up in non-con competition some, especially if Boo and Chase are back. No reason not to challenge ourselves some in the first two months of the season considering we will be considered by most to have a top 25 team.
i loved playing the local schools. It just so happened they weren't very good this year. No ACC Challenge so there will be room to add a tougher opponent and I doubt Georgetown will ever be that bad again, so Gavit game could be tough, depending on who we draw.
Emotions about last year are largely dependent on how you view the floor and ceiling for the basketball program.
Is 12-8 the best we can do? I don't think so. Is 2nd place the best we can do? Maybe. The whole landscape has changed and every season can be wildly different than the prior. Even Chris Collins himself kept pointing out how flawed his team was... if he wasn't just saying that as a negotiating or motivational tool, well then its pretty clear that he (Collins) thinks we can win the Big Ten. (Or he's selling the idea)
Is Collins overconfident? Or are many of us so accustomed to losing that we can't imagine sustained success.
It should be pretty obvious that Collins has been bringing in talented players - the guys who decide to leave are in demand.
So what, logically, would hold us back from sustained competitiveness? Admissions? You need 2-3 guys who fit the profile each year. Much smaller talent pool, but the guys who value academics will put NU high on their list. Target those players. Transfer portal? We have advantages and disadvantages. We should be able to attract "off the radar" guys from mid-majors after they have played a season. The downside is that we might lose our NBA-dreaming players to blue blood programs (and coaches). Avoid most of those guys - they'll leave anyhow. Grad transfers? A big advantage. NIL money? TBD, but safe to assume it probably won't help.
The future of college basketball is cloudy, but we can play to our advantages and compete.
You're on the record as saying an elite coach is worth 2-3 wins a year at most. That the players determine the wins and losses. Have you come around on this?
Nope, players make the Coaches much more than the other way around. That doesn’t mean Coaches don’t make a difference, they do. 2-3 games won by a Coaching staff is a lot. Keep in mind that is against other professional Coaches, not me or Bob. Some Coaches can lose 2-3 games a year. So you can have a 5-6 game swing between poor Coaches and good Coaches. I personally underestimated The skills of Boo, Big Matt, Barney as examples. Despite this, we clearing did not have a consistent reliable 3 point shooter or much of an inside game at all, outside of Big Matt’s dunk on the lob. I will stand my claim that this was superb job by the staff. Don’t worry you will have plenty of time to downplay this year in the future.