Rose / Shoeless Joe Now Eligible for HoF
- Thread starter WayneDougan_rivals170043
- Start date
*insert field of dreams clip about shoeless joe here*
This comes on the day before the Reds will be honoring Pete Rose at GABP.
What’s everyone’s thoughts? Sad that it took until he died before this happened. Does he get in?
He probably won’t say or do anything else to mess it up this time.
I do think he should get in but it was his own damn fault he didn’t while he was alive.
I do think he should get in but it was his own damn fault he didn’t while he was alive.
Rose was spot on. He said this would happen as soon as he passed away.
My thoughts? Should have happened while he was still alive. Removing the ban only makes him eligible to go into the HOF.
Last edited:
Shoeless Joe is also removed from the permanent banned list too. I’m not sure about his story but his was a little more egregious than Roses if I recall . I thought They’d never let the black Sox players off the list
Mixed feelings. Pete was great, but he deliberately broke the one rule you simply can't break.
I wonder what this will mean for the steroid guys? Sounds like you need to be dead and then all is forgiven.
"A person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game", said Commissioner Manfred.
www.espn.com
I wonder what this will mean for the steroid guys? Sounds like you need to be dead and then all is forgiven.
"A person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game", said Commissioner Manfred.
Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe HOF-eligible as MLB lifts ban
The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.
www.espn.com
I always thought it was foolish to ban Rose AND Shoeless Joe from the Hall of Fame. Ban them from participating in baseball in an official way, as a player, coach, executive, owner, etc., yes. That was the punishment and the warning to others.
But the Hall of Fame?
Who is the Hall of Fame for? To me, it is not some private club for the player/members, the game's BigWigs and the sports writers they let hang around. It's for the fans. It is America's temple to celebrate the game, and includes everyone who earned inclusion by their on-field exploits -- EXCEPT THOSE WHO CHEATED TO ACHIEVE THOSE RESULTS, like the steroid generation.
Rose and Jackson should have been in the Hall, with their plaques noting both their achievements and the ways they damaged the game.
But the Hall of Fame?
Who is the Hall of Fame for? To me, it is not some private club for the player/members, the game's BigWigs and the sports writers they let hang around. It's for the fans. It is America's temple to celebrate the game, and includes everyone who earned inclusion by their on-field exploits -- EXCEPT THOSE WHO CHEATED TO ACHIEVE THOSE RESULTS, like the steroid generation.
Rose and Jackson should have been in the Hall, with their plaques noting both their achievements and the ways they damaged the game.
Last edited:
Pete Rose EARNED that honor between the lines end of story. Whether or not he bet on baseball should have been irrelevant for his playing career. He didn't get 4256 damn hits because he was an effing cheater. He should have been punished by not letting him ever manage again.
It's despicable he had to die for this to happen.
Those Black Socks dudes flat out cheated the game between the lines. They earned their banishment.
It's despicable he had to die for this to happen.
Those Black Socks dudes flat out cheated the game between the lines. They earned their banishment.
Based on stats and career seems like he should be n there. Idc about the other crap. He paid the price for it.
His numbers deserve it. His actions did not. The actor behind the actions is dead. All that remains are the numbers.
I’m fine with it now.
I’m fine with it now.
Keep him out. The guy should have been put in a long time ago, and not posthumous. Waiting until he dies to give it to him just seems like virtue signaling on the committee's part. Give people their flowers when it really matters.
Shoeless Joe Jackson's batting average in the 1919 World Series was .375. He also had 12 hits, no errors, and hit the only home run for the White Sox in the series
His peers in the Hall of Fame and others who played the game should have the biggest say. It is a joke that the all-time Hit King is not acknowledged in the Hall of Fame. Especially as much as professional sports and gambling intertwine in today's game. Calvin Ridley bet on NFL games to include his Falcons team and returned to play football. Holding Rose out is a disgrace. Manfred must feel like a big man today waiting to make this decision after Pete is dead and gone.
Last edited:
Shoeless didn't throw the games, he couldn't do it, He had a great series, but they banned him to because he knew and didn't tell anyone about it - well, he also took the money- which is interesting - if they had somehow won, I would imagine he would have had to answer for that- glad he is off the list
Last edited:
He broke the one rule you can't break. To make it worse, he then lied about, and spent over a decade profiting off the lies. Then he came clean. I don't have a problem with him betting (by all accounts he didn't throw games or anything). But I do have a problem with him being a liar, playing the victim, and profiting from his deceit. I don't have a problem with him getting in now, but I'm glad it's after. Feel free to disagree with my principles.
See, I wasn't too familiar with his scandal, so much as I knew about the Black Sox Scandal in general. So they banned him because he knew something was wrong, took part in it (to the benefit of his team and to himself), not because he threw games. Got it.
Yeah, the others who purposely lost that team the series should NEVER get in. Traitors to a team, to a person, etc have no redemptive qualities imo. If Shoeless knew and took part in it and helped his team, then I can understand removing his name. Does he have any living relatives who may be able to speak at a ceremony should he enter the Hall?
Another question I have is this, Lou Gehrig was inducted in a special election, (with no old heads, journalists etc voting). Will they do something similar for Pete and Shoeless Joe? These journalists have such a bug up their backside about the purity of the game, sure they cleared this hurdle, and don't get me wrong it is a big hurdle, but will they clear the second? Getting in.
Both Pete Rose & Shoeless Joe bans lifted the day the Reds and White Sox begin a series against each other in Cincinnati.Mixed feelings. Pete was great, but he deliberately broke the one rule you simply can't break.
I wonder what this will mean for the steroid guys? Sounds like you need to be dead and then all is forgiven.
"A person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game", said Commissioner Manfred.
Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe HOF-eligible as MLB lifts ban
The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.
Seriously? You don’t understand the ban for Rose?
I hope his family refuses to acknowledge if he gets voted in. If they could not put him in while he was alive, I hope he had paperwork done so the hall of fame could NEVER use his name. The HOF is not a moral judge, it is solely based on his playing skills. The fact he gambled had zero to do with his playing career. To take away his privilege to play or manage was the correct punishment it but had zero to do with the HOF.
I say this as a huge Reds fan.... Rose shouldn’t have been reinstated.
He bet on baseball. He bet as both a player and a manager. That in and of itself would be enough but Rose’s actions after the fact cemented his ban. Rose agreed to the lifetime ban to end the investigation because he knew there was so much more.
Then, after Giamatti died the week after the ban was finalized, Rose spent the next 2 decades lying and trashing Giamatti every chance he got.
When did Rose finally admit to lying? When he thought he could most cash in on it in an autobiography where he continued lying and blaming everyone but himself.
Rose was banned because that’s what he chose.
From The Athletic…
“In 2002, his friends, Mike Schmidt and Joe Morgan, arranged a secret meeting between Rose and Bud Selig, then the commissioner of baseball. The Hit King had to know he would never have a greater opportunity than this one.
Selig spelled out what baseball expected of him if the league was even going to consider adjusting his life sentence. Rose would need to stop gambling — all the gambling. He would need to stop hanging out at all those casinos and racetracks.
And finally, there was this: He would need to hold a press conference — to admit to his “crime,” to admit that yes, he’d bet on baseball, to apologize to everyone he’d betrayed and to promise none of this would ever happen again. They shook hands. And then …
Rose walked out of that meeting and headed directly for an appearance at a sports book in Las Vegas. The commissioner and those around him were furious. Rose’s fate was sealed forever that day. It’s hard to argue it was anyone’s fault except his own.”
He bet on baseball. He bet as both a player and a manager. That in and of itself would be enough but Rose’s actions after the fact cemented his ban. Rose agreed to the lifetime ban to end the investigation because he knew there was so much more.
Then, after Giamatti died the week after the ban was finalized, Rose spent the next 2 decades lying and trashing Giamatti every chance he got.
When did Rose finally admit to lying? When he thought he could most cash in on it in an autobiography where he continued lying and blaming everyone but himself.
Rose was banned because that’s what he chose.
From The Athletic…
“In 2002, his friends, Mike Schmidt and Joe Morgan, arranged a secret meeting between Rose and Bud Selig, then the commissioner of baseball. The Hit King had to know he would never have a greater opportunity than this one.
Selig spelled out what baseball expected of him if the league was even going to consider adjusting his life sentence. Rose would need to stop gambling — all the gambling. He would need to stop hanging out at all those casinos and racetracks.
And finally, there was this: He would need to hold a press conference — to admit to his “crime,” to admit that yes, he’d bet on baseball, to apologize to everyone he’d betrayed and to promise none of this would ever happen again. They shook hands. And then …
Rose walked out of that meeting and headed directly for an appearance at a sports book in Las Vegas. The commissioner and those around him were furious. Rose’s fate was sealed forever that day. It’s hard to argue it was anyone’s fault except his own.”
Rose's family were the ones who filed for reinstatement in January, met with the commissioner and asked Commissioner Manfred for a decision to be made prior to Pete being honored tomorrow night. If they were still seeking reinstatement, it stands to reason being enshrined in the Hall of Fame is on their minds too.
I agree with everything you said, but time has moved on. Heck, today DraftKings Sportsbook is a sponsor of MLB.
I'd feel a lot better about Rose if he hadn't continued to lie about what he did. When Michael Jordan's enormous gambling debts were exposed in 1993, he accepted responsibility. It's still not clear what happened in that meeting with the NBA commissioner, but the result was he either chose to "retire" or got a secret suspension. Jordan played minor league baseball for a while, then suddenly returned to the Bulls mid-season 1995.
Pete Rose was a great baseball player.
He was also a terrible human being.
People overlook the latter to praise the former.
He was also a terrible human being.
People overlook the latter to praise the former.
Joe actually had a very good series. I dont think he did anything wrong. The stats certainly don't show it.
I'm no fan of Landis, never was. He used a sledgehammer when a flyswatter would do. The terms of his contract were absurd.
Very true. And I say that as Reds fan.
The Cardinals were the first team to set up their own farm system (under Branch Rickey) and were beginning to dominate. Landis deemed it an unfair advantage and "broke up" their farm system to allow other teams to catch up.
I have mixed feelings on Rose. Stat wise he is HOF, but even besides betting, there are other areas including accusations of sex with a female minor. I guess put them both in and show the warts and not just the good stuff.
Have mixed feelings about Rose and Jackson but the above makes no sense. Regarding the hall of fame.It's all about who is a great player not about who is a great person
To me character matters. We should not celebrate terrible people just because they’re good at a sport or a celebrity or a politician.
In today’s world when I look around I don’t think that means as much.