Round 2 drcats2013 vs. quest4#9

[DraftCat]

Welcome to the 1st All-Time MLB Draft in Paddock's.

Voters the goal was to draft a MLB roster of legends that will compete in a hypothetical
7 game World Series. Please vote on who you believe would win out of the two teams.

@drcats2013...........................Pitching Rotation:

1. CF- Kenny Lofton.................SP- Steve Carlton
2. C- Ivan Rodriguez ...............SP- Catfish Hunter
3. LF- Barry Bonds.................. SP- Jacob DeGrom
4. 1B- Frank Thomas............... SP- Fernando Valenzuela
5. RF- Reggie Jackson.............CP- Goose Gossage
6. 2B- Ryne Sandberg
7. SS- Miguel Tejada
8. 3B- Kris Bryant

Bench:
Vince Coleman-OF
Keith Hernandez-IF
Willie McGee- OF

@quest4#9 ...............................Pitching Rotation:

1. Jackie Robinson 2b........SP - Nolan Ryan
2. Mike Trout rf....................SP - Doc Gooden
3. Ken Griffey jr cf...............SP - Ron Guidry
4. Mark McGwire 1b...........SP - Jake Arrieta
5. Sammy Sosa lf...............CL - Eric Gagne
6. Edgar Martinez 3b
7. Buster Posey c
8. Peewee Reese ss

Bench
OF Billy Hamilton (LH) - (original, not the reds player)
IF Edgar Renteria- WS MVP
C JT Realmuto- best catcher in MLB

 

[DraftCat]

@drcats2013 @quest4#9

Hi yall your matchup has started

 

[quest4#9]

Thanks @UKNorse . Not much to say on my end. I feel my lineup is scary for a pitcher to face. Trout will eventually be in the GOAT discussion along with Griffey. Make any mistake and it would be a home run derby. Defensively we are elite at the key positions (Griffey, Jackie, Pee Wee, Posey)

My pitching especially in their prime, which is what we are basing these on, is amazing.

Nolan Ryan is the all time MLB strikeout leader.
Gooden (24-4) (1.5 ERA), Guidry (25-3) (1.7 ERA) and Arrieta (26-6) (1.7 ERA) were pitchers who didn’t have HOF careers, but in their prime they were as dominant as you can get. Gagne holds the saves record with 55/55 saves (1.2 ERA).

@drcats2013 also has a nice team. But I do think mine would win.

 

[Drcats2025]

My 3,4,5,6, and 8 batters are all better. Sosa and McGwire have the home runs, but don’t have the big game production, ala Mr. October.

My number one pitcher is better, as his WAR is almost 9 points higher, despite playing three less seasons. Carlton also has 4 Cy Young’s to to Ryan’s 0. Overall pitching staff is pretty close and no real winner there.

I guess Griffey Jr and Bonds is the difference due to likability. If there are other factors I’d love to be educated on them. @quest4#9 does have a very good team, but I’m not understanding this lead aside from likability factors.

 

[quest4#9]

Griffey > Bonds as a player for me. Much better defensively. Griffey was just an unstoppable 2 way force before the injuries. Have to judge him in his prime. I don’t think anyone considered Bonds as good as Griffey until maybe he started ramping up production in his late 30s with roids. I’m fine with us not judging our players on roids as that’s what they were.

However, if you’re going to consider Bonds a top 5 talent then you have to give the same steroid credit to McGwire and Sosa who were a home run once every 8 at bats collectively in their roid prime. Those two the year they were competing in the home run race were a nightmare.

Nolan Ryan is the best pitcher on either team IMO. The only reason his metrics might not jump off the page is he played for bad teams. He’d have had several CY Young’s on an average team. But the guy hit 108 mph on radar, with way more strikeouts than anyone in MLB history including Randy Johnson. He was 1.7 ERA and basically lights out in his best year.

Trout to me is a big difference maker in this. 3 MVPs before the age of 28. Certainly could end up with anywhere from 6-10 at his pace and he really is on pace to possibly be the GOAT.

 

[Drcats2025]

Griffey > Bonds as a player for me. Much better defensively. Griffey was just an unstoppable 2 way force before the injuries. Have to judge him in his prime. I don’t think anyone considered Bonds as good as Griffey until maybe he started ramping up production in his late 30s with roids. I’m fine with us not judging our players on roids as that’s what they were.

However, if you’re going to consider Bonds a top 5 talent then you have to give the same steroid credit to McGwire and Sosa who were a home run once every 8 at bats collectively in their roid prime. Those two the year they were competing in the home run race were a nightmare.

Nolan Ryan is the best pitcher on either team IMO. The only reason his metrics might not jump off the page is he played for bad teams. He’d have had several CY Young’s on an average team. But the guy hit 108 mph on radar, with way more strikeouts than anyone in MLB history including Randy Johnson. He was 1.7 ERA and basically lights out in his best year.

Trout to me is a big difference maker in this. 3 MVPs before the age of 28. Certainly could end up with anywhere from 6-10 at his pace and he really is on pace to possibly be the GOAT.

If you don’t think 2001 Bonds was vastly better than Griffey at his best, then I don’t know what to say lol. Griffey’s best season had a BA of .304 and obp of .382 to Bonds .362 and .609 OBP.

Throwing 108 once also is a bad criteria for why a pitcher is better than another. Nolan Ryan was amazing, but inconsistent. He was never the consistent powerhouse Carlton was.

 

[quest4#9]

Bonds 2001 hit .328, Griffey had a year with .327 ba.

Both averaged high .200s BA for career as both were sluggers.

Griffey was better defensively and on the bases. Both were absolute studs in their prime who you can argue for GOAT status, but Griffey was the best player of the 90s. There’s a reason video games were named after him.

Carlton didn’t play for the Rangers or he’d have no Cy Young’s either. Almost any ranking you find will rank Nolan above him. But I’m not taking anything away from Carlton, he was also a stud. More it’s just obvious Nolan Ryan would have had several Cy Young’s on a decent team. He was a force.

I respect your ability to argue your guys, but Griffey and Nolan Ryan are both in the argument for GOAT position player and GOAT pitcher.

 

[Drcats2025]

Bonds 2001 hit .328, Griffey had a year with .327 ba.

Both averaged high .200s BA for career as both were sluggers.

Griffey was better defensively and on the bases. Both were absolute studs in their prime who you can argue for GOAT status, but Griffey was the best player of the 90s. There’s a reason video games were named after him.

Carlton didn’t play for the Rangers or he’d have no Cy Young’s either. Almost any ranking you find will rank Nolan above him. But I’m not taking anything away from Carlton, he was also a stud. More it’s just obvious Nolan Ryan would have had several Cy Young’s on a decent team. He was a force.

I respect your ability to argue your guys, but Griffey and Nolan Ryan are both in the argument for GOAT position player and GOAT pitcher.

2001 Bonds wasn’t the best Bonds. I’m sorry, but home runs aren’t everything. Average and OBP are much higher indicators of ability. We’re getting them at their best, and at his best, Bonds was superior to Griffey and it’s not even debatable. Roids obviously were a factor, but both Sosa and McGwire would have never even been picked in this draft if they didn’t take them. Bonds was a stud even before the roids.

I’m not sure what you’ve found that says Ryan is superior to Carlton. I’ve yet to come across anything with validity saying so. Ryan also is NOT in discussion for GOAT pitcher. Not by any rational mind, at least. His longevity was remarkable and he’s an absolute legend, but not GOAT worthy, nor is Carlton, for that matter. Griffey “could” have been in that discussion if not for injuries, but I still don’t think so. He was a talented, cool cat, and that’s why he was on the video games, but he’s still not a Ruth, Bonds, or Willie Mays.

 

[quest4#9]

McGwire and Sosa were studs pre roids. McGwire has the highest home run % of any player ever, even higher than bonds, and most of his career he wasn’t taking the roids. They just took him to another level as they did for bonds. Steroids won’t ever make a bad player great, they just make a great player greater. I think McGwire and Sosa are probably hall of famers if they don’t take the roids. The taint of them will keep them and probably bonds out.

If Griffey kept on his 90s level of play while on the Reds he would have been unquestionably the best ever. He just got hurt. He wasn’t just a cool guy who wore his hat backwards, he was a generational talent. He was the Michael Jordan of baseball and basically drove interest in the game itself single handidly.

Griffey was certainly a top 5 talent ever when healthy. Most on here remember who he was pre injuries.

 

[DraftCat]

@quest4#9

I voted for you for the 1-5 batters.... that would be a tough stretch for most pitchers to go through. If they aren't hitting homeruns they are working the count and limiting the opposing pitcher innings.

My favorite player as a Reds fan is Griffey and Larkin. I do believe in my heart Griffey is the GOAT. It still saddens me to even think about but the Baseball Gods can suck my d*** for not giving us a mostly free of injuries career.

 

[berniecarbo]

@quest4#9

I voted for you for the 1-5 batters.... that would be a tough stretch for most pitchers to go through. If they aren't hitting homeruns they are working the count and limiting the opposing pitcher innings.

My favorite player as a Reds fan is Griffey and Larkin. I do believe in my heart Griffey is the GOAT. It still saddens me to even think about but the Baseball Gods can suck my d*** for not giving us a mostly free of injuries career.

I have to pick at you a little bit. Bill James said Griffey Jr was the second best left handed hitting and throwing outfielder ever born on Nov 21 in Donora Pa.

 

[Drcats2025]

Bump. Please help. Lol

 

[quest4#9]

Hahaha, this feels like an election. Now I get how politics turns dirty.

Sure I’d be defending your team and you’d be defending mine if we switched teams.

 

[quest4#9]

You have guys named Catfish and Goose on your team. I give you bonus points for that one.

 

[Drcats2025]

You have guys named Catfish and Goose on your team. I give you bonus points for that one.

Guess I’ll give you bonus points for having a trout and a peewee on yours then