Maybe if cops weren't so notorious for covering up each other's mistakes/corruption, we could rely on testimonies and not have a need for body cameras.
Sam DuBose Murder
- Thread starter joeyrupption
- Start date
Shoot a man for being evasive. Believe me, I have had women friends pulled over by same cop on obsolete roads and cops trying to falsify why they pulled people over. I am almost 50 years old and the most I have ever done is a speeding ticket,I think cops are again about the most least respected profession, sorry if guys want to sugar coat and blame the defendants. Those two high profile shootings in S. Carolina, this kid did not need to die and be shot.
I have friends who have been KY state troopers, I have friends who have been Tn. state troopers, all have left due quality of people coming in. Most are these young steroid raged punks. This is not your grandfather's police. This is a mostly white, ill equipped public servant.
A cop pulling you over is not judge and jury, hand him your Drivers license and registration. They can't be a communist police force. Many of the long time deputies, officers, patrolman that I have known are all saying it is a new day and time and the people coming through are not equipped emotionally to be a cop or possess the able attributes that long time police officers now possess. Many call the video game hero crew that they get in the academies.
Every force is about the same, white 20-35 year old muscled up and steroid induced punks. Sorry but this problem has started back in the 90's and is worse now. You have the good guys that try to do it right but this young generation of cops are doing it for the wrong reasons.
IMO
I have friends who have been KY state troopers, I have friends who have been Tn. state troopers, all have left due quality of people coming in. Most are these young steroid raged punks. This is not your grandfather's police. This is a mostly white, ill equipped public servant.
A cop pulling you over is not judge and jury, hand him your Drivers license and registration. They can't be a communist police force. Many of the long time deputies, officers, patrolman that I have known are all saying it is a new day and time and the people coming through are not equipped emotionally to be a cop or possess the able attributes that long time police officers now possess. Many call the video game hero crew that they get in the academies.
Every force is about the same, white 20-35 year old muscled up and steroid induced punks. Sorry but this problem has started back in the 90's and is worse now. You have the good guys that try to do it right but this young generation of cops are doing it for the wrong reasons.
IMO
^ I'm not sure I have seen any of the big meat head "steroid induced punks" involved in these situations, but there have been quite a few to keep up with lately...the ones I have seen look more like a weaker/smaller build type of guy...and in Baltimore, that police force definitely isn't the same "white - 20-35, etc etc"
Need better vetting, no doubt about it.
Need better vetting, no doubt about it.
It's important not to lose sight that this specific case is just an illustration of the bigger issue surrounding the overuse of force by a certain percentage (I can't speculate how great or small) of police officers in this country.
In this particular case, unlike countless others, the officer has been indicted. That's important, because for once a trier of fact is going to get the opportunity to determine exactly what happened, and whether what happened equals guilt of a crime beyond all reasonable doubt. In prior case, there weren't even indictments (I'm sure those decisions got covered plenty on this board).
I think a lot of the outrage here is coming from two places:
(1) People's perception that the use of deadly force against DuBose in this example was an injustice, and
(2) The fact that unarmed citizens nationwide continue to die at the hands of police officers, generally.
Yes, justice may be done in this particular case. But the bigger question is whether that will result in any sort of real change across the board.
In this particular case, unlike countless others, the officer has been indicted. That's important, because for once a trier of fact is going to get the opportunity to determine exactly what happened, and whether what happened equals guilt of a crime beyond all reasonable doubt. In prior case, there weren't even indictments (I'm sure those decisions got covered plenty on this board).
I think a lot of the outrage here is coming from two places:
(1) People's perception that the use of deadly force against DuBose in this example was an injustice, and
(2) The fact that unarmed citizens nationwide continue to die at the hands of police officers, generally.
Yes, justice may be done in this particular case. But the bigger question is whether that will result in any sort of real change across the board.
Neither of the other officers were indicted by the way.
Also Tensing, through his union, demanded his job back because the university fired him this week without due process.
Gotta love unions.
Also Tensing, through his union, demanded his job back because the university fired him this week without due process.
Gotta love unions.
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BALTIMORE (AP) — Baltimore reached a grim milestone on Friday, three months after riots erupted in response to the death of Freddie Gray in police custody: With 45 homicides in July, the city has seen more bloodshed in a single month than it has in 43 years.
Police reported three deaths — two men shot Thursday and one on Friday. The men died at local hospitals.
With their deaths, this year's homicides reached 189, far outpacing the 119 killings by July's end in 2014. Nonfatal shootings have soared to 366, compared to 200 by the same date last year. July's total was the worst since the city recorded 45 killings in August 1972, according to The Baltimore Sun.
Police reported three deaths — two men shot Thursday and one on Friday. The men died at local hospitals.
With their deaths, this year's homicides reached 189, far outpacing the 119 killings by July's end in 2014. Nonfatal shootings have soared to 366, compared to 200 by the same date last year. July's total was the worst since the city recorded 45 killings in August 1972, according to The Baltimore Sun.
I'm all for raising the bar as for qualifications to become a cop. If 6 weeks is all the training they get a lot more could be done. Not sure what the job pays but I wouldn't rule out some kind of schooling as a requirement.
She was arrested for assaulting an officer. I didn't make up the story, nor am I a member of paranoid.com, all I can do is watch crappy video's and read the reports. That is what the police report says, feel free to question it but saying that you know something as a fact when there is no evidence is not convincing me of anything.
Bristol listed her as a murdered victim by police, that is a lie.
I love these "he didn't deserve to get shot" comments - as if anybody needs that explained.
Just go ahead a count this as the most classless post you've ever read, but 99% of all these sort of events are always preceded by the same conditions: one group of people is out breaking the law while the other group of people is at work. Hate me.
Just go ahead a count this as the most classless post you've ever read, but 99% of all these sort of events are always preceded by the same conditions: one group of people is out breaking the law while the other group of people is at work. Hate me.
It seems instinctive to me, but here goes anyhow. This applies to all people: red, yellow, black or white.
1 Know that the cop who pulls you over has the option of (a) writing you a ticket, (b) letting you off with a written warning, (c) letting you off with a verbal warning, (d) arresting you in the event you have an outstanding warrant, are under the influence, or have something unlawful clearly visible in your car, or (e) making your life miserable for a few hours or days after you start acting like a butthole JUST BECAUSE HE CAN. Which option he chooses often depends on you. Unless of course he is being pressured from above to write more tickets or is just the gung-ho type, you are most likely to get a ticket. Most cops, I find, are decent people and might even be open to letting you go on your way if you behave respectfully and have a good story.
2 When pulled over, (a) stay in your car and don't be moving around like you are trying to hide something, (b) if it is night time turn on your interior lights, (c) place both hands on the steering wheel and wait, (d) when he is at your window, roll your window down and be ready to show your driver's license, registration and proof of insurance. Keep quiet and just let him run his checks.
3 When he asks, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" just say "No (sir, or officer). Let him tell you why he pulled you over. Then you can say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't even notice I did that" or tell them whatever feasible story you might have for doing what you did. If you are a female the tears should be flowing by now (unless it is a female cop - then it will do you no good).
4 9 times out of 10 you are on the road again in 10-15 minutes, pissed probably but un-bloodied and with or without a ticket (which you probably deserved).
Oooooor ...
1 Bail out and run if the car is stolen. You stand a decent chance of getting away if you can run fast for a long distance.
2 Running is futile if it is your own car.
3 This a good opportunity to show that you know the Constitution. Ask them, "Am I being arrested?" If they say "no", then say, "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!" Let them know that you don't have to answer any of their questions. This strikes fear in the hearts of most cops and they might just apologize tell you to move along then. Orrrrrr, they might just decide to hassle you a couple of hours beside the road, make up a reason to arrest you or take you down to the office to get it all straightened out.
4 If a person of color, give the cop an opportunity to make up for historic injustices. If the cop is white, remind him that his forefathers mistreated blacks during slavery and Jim Crow days - and that he is continuing those injustices now by pulling you over. Let him know that you know that is the only reason he pulled you over. He will probably recognize his collective guilt and let you go.
5 Know that you can probably kick any cop's butt in a struggle and get out of their grasp. Sometimes that works, but not always. Sometimes the cop just loses their rationality for a few seconds - and shoots. You're dead, he's sorry and maybe in a lot of trouble. And we get to argue with one another for weeks (never changing one person's mind) on another cop-shooting thread.
1 Know that the cop who pulls you over has the option of (a) writing you a ticket, (b) letting you off with a written warning, (c) letting you off with a verbal warning, (d) arresting you in the event you have an outstanding warrant, are under the influence, or have something unlawful clearly visible in your car, or (e) making your life miserable for a few hours or days after you start acting like a butthole JUST BECAUSE HE CAN. Which option he chooses often depends on you. Unless of course he is being pressured from above to write more tickets or is just the gung-ho type, you are most likely to get a ticket. Most cops, I find, are decent people and might even be open to letting you go on your way if you behave respectfully and have a good story.
2 When pulled over, (a) stay in your car and don't be moving around like you are trying to hide something, (b) if it is night time turn on your interior lights, (c) place both hands on the steering wheel and wait, (d) when he is at your window, roll your window down and be ready to show your driver's license, registration and proof of insurance. Keep quiet and just let him run his checks.
3 When he asks, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" just say "No (sir, or officer). Let him tell you why he pulled you over. Then you can say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't even notice I did that" or tell them whatever feasible story you might have for doing what you did. If you are a female the tears should be flowing by now (unless it is a female cop - then it will do you no good).
4 9 times out of 10 you are on the road again in 10-15 minutes, pissed probably but un-bloodied and with or without a ticket (which you probably deserved).
Oooooor ...
1 Bail out and run if the car is stolen. You stand a decent chance of getting away if you can run fast for a long distance.
2 Running is futile if it is your own car.
3 This a good opportunity to show that you know the Constitution. Ask them, "Am I being arrested?" If they say "no", then say, "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!" Let them know that you don't have to answer any of their questions. This strikes fear in the hearts of most cops and they might just apologize tell you to move along then. Orrrrrr, they might just decide to hassle you a couple of hours beside the road, make up a reason to arrest you or take you down to the office to get it all straightened out.
4 If a person of color, give the cop an opportunity to make up for historic injustices. If the cop is white, remind him that his forefathers mistreated blacks during slavery and Jim Crow days - and that he is continuing those injustices now by pulling you over. Let him know that you know that is the only reason he pulled you over. He will probably recognize his collective guilt and let you go.
5 Know that you can probably kick any cop's butt in a struggle and get out of their grasp. Sometimes that works, but not always. Sometimes the cop just loses their rationality for a few seconds - and shoots. You're dead, he's sorry and maybe in a lot of trouble. And we get to argue with one another for weeks (never changing one person's mind) on another cop-shooting thread.
I serious doubt you like any law enforcement or any other body of authority...
I said the Officer was at fault, I fail to see your accusations of blue line bias...
Over 2 decades in law Enforcement and a MS in Criminal Justice...
Of course any good Officer will tell you your right, who doesnt want a pay increase but money doesnt eliminate terror,panic and make Officers more fit...
The real problem is the world is a more dangerous place and this is what the police are training for. Lost is the emphasis on community policing of the 80s-90s because there simply isnt enough training hours to cover it all. "Staying alive" has replaced "walk and talk".Thats why the police are shooting people with bb guns when the call was "man with gun pointing it". Thats why they are shooting people lunging for their wallet. Thats why they are leaning on lethal force as compared to non-lethal methods. When police are interacting with the public with this heightened sense of threat and only seconds to make decisions, your going to have some bad situations come of it.
Virginia Tech April 16, 2007 ring a bell?
Northern Illinois campus shooting?
Shooting at Hazard community college?
Shooting at Appalachian school of Law?
There was no evidence in that dash cam video of her assaulting that officer. She was already being detained for nothing.
Charles Joseph Whitman (June 24, 1941 – August 1, 1966) was an American engineering student at the University of Texas, former U.S. Marine, and a mass murderer who killed 16 people.
In the early morning hours of August 1, 1966, Whitman murdered his wife and mother in their homes. Later that day, he brought a number of guns, including rifles, a shotgun, and handguns, to the campus of the University of Texas at Austin where, over an approximate 90 to 95 minute period, he killed 14 people and wounded 32 others in a mass shooting in and around the Tower. Whitman shot and killed three people inside the university's tower and eleven others after firing at random from the 28th-floor observation deck of the Main Building
I think Sam Dubose was actually a character from To Kill a Mocking Bird. He was Boo Radleys buddy.
All I learned from this story is the next time I try to run from the coppers I better have installed some bullet proof windows.
I do. I greatly appreciate the good officers.
A pay increase doesnt make someone bigger, faster, stronger, or better. But it gets better applicants in the pool, which is the real problem.
There are enough training hours. Theres just as many hours in a day/month/year as there have ever been. So thats definitely not it.
Almost every Officer today has either a college degree, military experience or both. The jobs are highly competative. They are subject to intense interviews, background checks and must complete months of Academy training. Not sure what caliber applicants you are refering to but there are only a few Navy Seals available and Harvard grads arent lining up to be public servants no matter what they pay. the Officer in question (Ray Tensing) graduated from Ohio State w/ honors. Its not like Police depts are going to Home depot and homeless shelters to do their hiring.
There might be the same amount of hours in a day/month/year but not to train in any areas other than terrorism, domestic terrorism, emergency response and anything else that homeland security provides funding for. 911 changed everything and like I said, issues such as community policing, public speaking and dealing with the public have all been phased out. Then you have the whole gender/transgender diversity training consuming what was racial diversity training.
Yesterday there was a story on the news about a white Officer pulling over a black lady who didnt have her 2 children restrained in car seats. The lady who was the kids Aunt had took the kids so their mother could "get her life in order". Instead of giving her a ticket, he took her to a nearby store and bought the lady 2 carseats for the children out of his own pocket. There is still hope...
They USED to be highly sought after. Nowadays, the random (increased) minimum wage worker gets paid as much as a small town/campus police officer.
Today, I could get my cat a degree thanks to online diploma mills. But having a degree isnt the only qualification. They need to be psychologically and physically able to perform. Many/most candidates are lacking in at least one area.
This very well may be true. Sounds very possible that police forces are training for a militarized response rather than day to day policing. Cant disagree with that at all.
Totally agree. I see officers changing tires all the time in sweltering heat or freezing cold. I see them helping motorists. I see them talking to school kids. There are some terrific people out there, that are terrific officers. I know several of them personally. And its a shame they dont get the positive publicity they deserve.
But the small percentage of bad PO's are really bad. Even worse, that small percentage has grown over the last several years. Its still a small percentage, but not as small as it used to be. And thats the real problem
That is a story of charity, not hope. If it was a story of hope it would be a story of not how the children's mother actually got her life in order, but how the children's father permanently entered the scene and became the provider of car seats and other essential items for all days, weeks, months, and years to come, without the need to - hopefully - depend on the chance grace of public servants - the police, whether white or any color along the spectrum.
I hate stories that detail the struggles of women and children and omit any language of the absent, lazy, responsibility shucking father. I'm almost certain that if I had not posted here all readers would have read this wonderful story of the gracious officer without ever asking themselves this question: where in God's name is the father of these children? Or is it more politically appropriate to go ahead and ask about . . . fathers?
I may have missed this along the way, are you in law enforcement? If not, what is your connection?
Intent, capability and opportunity. Without those Law Enforcement should not use lethal force.
Glad we now have body cameras to see what is actually happening. This shooting is ridiculous, doesn't matter how many times hes been arrested.
Glad we now have body cameras to see what is actually happening. This shooting is ridiculous, doesn't matter how many times hes been arrested.
What we're missing in all of this was the BS nature of the traffic stop in the fist place. What the cop wanted to do here was to get Dubose out of the car, pat him down, find drugs, and bag an arrest. So he pulled him over for not having a front license plate. This kind of thing happens continuously every day in every urban area in this country. It does not happen nearly as often to white people.
Some people in this thread seem to think it is okay for a copy to pull someone over for next to nothing, then order them around in a rude and condescending manner. When the person doesn't comply to a tee with what the cop wants them to do, they blame the victim for "putting himself in a position" to get shot in the head. When did we get to the point where we accept this type of police state (which really exists only in the inner cities)?
Some people in this thread seem to think it is okay for a copy to pull someone over for next to nothing, then order them around in a rude and condescending manner. When the person doesn't comply to a tee with what the cop wants them to do, they blame the victim for "putting himself in a position" to get shot in the head. When did we get to the point where we accept this type of police state (which really exists only in the inner cities)?
Who here thinks that's okay? Would love to see a quote that says that. Also, this type of behavior by police happens all over, not just in inner cities.
It absolutely happens to white people. In these police misconduct stories, race is always the red herring. Its really about authority.
Leave a popular bar on a weekend night, and the odds of you getting pulled over for some petty traffic offense like "not coming to a complete stop" or "failing to dim your lights" go through the roof; no matter the color of your skin.
I suppose this is just one more area in which white people need to apologize: for being better at registering vehicles properly, displaying plates correctly, probably for being better at carrying proper insurance, etc., etc., etc. . . When I lived in Texas if you didn't have a plate on the front of the car you were getting pulled over on the assumption that the plate on the back was probably wrong, and that it's mate may be on ANOTHER stolen vehicle. It wasn't the state of Texas' fault that auto makers did not manufacture vehicles with quality plate holders on the front as on the back. That was the owner's responsibility (oh, so tragic - the horror, to endure the insufferable task of bolting a stinking license plate on the front of a damn car).
I was a middle-aged white guy on a lonely section of California freeway about midnight a few years ago. CHP zooms by me and I literally say to myself: "Whew. Glad I wasn't speeding." Get a couple of miles down the freeway and there he sits as I drive past him. Throws on his lights and pulls me over. I asked him why he stopped me. "You swerved" was his reply (I know I didn't). He checked my DL, my registration, my POI. All good. Asked me if I had been drinking. Told him I hadn't (I'm a teetotaler). Made me get out of the car and ran me through the whole drunk test routine. Though steaming, I kept my mouth shut and he finally let me go.
Some cops with time on their hands like to play the odds game. Pull over any ten drivers at random and the odds are that one or more of them has no license, no right to be driving the vehicle, has no insurance, has been drinking or smoking weed in the car, has something illegal in the car or has an outstanding warrant. Some cops like having the power to do this stuff but it pisses most people off and the cops unnecessarily gain a bad rap for themselves.
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So you don't want cops pulling you over for a missing plate? What about tags? Broken taillight?
Fine. Who cares. I certainly don't. Just do away with them. And liscenses too. Don't have one? No bigs, brah. Be nice to get rid of the taxes that follow.
There's a process in every city, state, and nation for changing laws you don't like, ie the front plate and getting stopped for not having one. Sure, may be a royal *** pain but it's there.
I'd like to go ahead and "not get pulled over" for skirting the Obamacare mandate, let's be honest it's a ******** rule and they just do it to shake me down, they should just stop and let me do what I want, there's more violent crimes to deal with.
Fine. Who cares. I certainly don't. Just do away with them. And liscenses too. Don't have one? No bigs, brah. Be nice to get rid of the taxes that follow.
There's a process in every city, state, and nation for changing laws you don't like, ie the front plate and getting stopped for not having one. Sure, may be a royal *** pain but it's there.
I'd like to go ahead and "not get pulled over" for skirting the Obamacare mandate, let's be honest it's a ******** rule and they just do it to shake me down, they should just stop and let me do what I want, there's more violent crimes to deal with.
Exactly. Race has very little, if anything, to do with it. Its always about the bad ones exercising authority and abusing it. They dont care about the color of your skin.
Bahaha you think if it was bmw with a white dude in it we see the same thing play out?
I think race MAY have a part to play with the initial stop, but not with the subsequent violence. Thats about authority and bad police abusing authority.
Otherwise why would the african american PO try to help in the coverup in the SC shooting?
DuBose was a little in the wrong.
Cop was a lot in the wrong. Quick trigger. Terrible, embarrassing, cringe-worthy mustache.
I won't lie. I hate cops and am not a bow to authority kind of guy. However, when I deal with them I'm 100 percent compliant and respectful. It's just easier. Some of those overworked, under paid folks are ticking timebombs, and I don't want to be the one who accidentally detonates one.
It's a lesson learned from some not-so-pleasant run-ins in my teens and early 20s where I would tell them to eff off if they stopped me just to see what I was up to. It's not worth the threats of arrest, the cussing and the unreasonable searches (that produced nothing but a messed up car and a disappointed officer) just to be a prick to the cops.
Cop was a lot in the wrong. Quick trigger. Terrible, embarrassing, cringe-worthy mustache.
I won't lie. I hate cops and am not a bow to authority kind of guy. However, when I deal with them I'm 100 percent compliant and respectful. It's just easier. Some of those overworked, under paid folks are ticking timebombs, and I don't want to be the one who accidentally detonates one.
It's a lesson learned from some not-so-pleasant run-ins in my teens and early 20s where I would tell them to eff off if they stopped me just to see what I was up to. It's not worth the threats of arrest, the cussing and the unreasonable searches (that produced nothing but a messed up car and a disappointed officer) just to be a prick to the cops.
You dont think a white dude in a BMW rolling through the inner city is going to get pulled over because hes white?
Guess that means the bottle was opened and unsealed...which would probably heighten the cops senses. Still think he handled it horribly, but adds a little to the state of mind.
i think cops could use some training that wasn't 0-start shooting in less than 2 seconds. some cops are ********, some aren't, but they all seem to be ready to put people on blast, literally, over things that are hardly life threatening.
Just reported on the radio: There was 2 pounds of pot and $2600 in the car. I don't know if that's been completely confirmed, but if it's true... that'd explain why he started the car and tried to drive off, when the cop appeared to want a closer look at everything.