Can’t rebound, can’t score late. And it’s gonna be worse next year when Mart is gone. Collins will be back on the hot seat. He’s barely developed a PG and it shows. Bad.
Same story every game
- Thread starter Baz = Heisman
- Start date
Collins will not be on the hot seat next year, don't be rediculous.
Yes, he will be. 100%. Two straight years without a tourney - given he himself raised the floor with B2B bids - and Mark Jackson is a real AD who demands results. Not to mention this year’s team might win 6 B1G games. MIGHT.
No way this team gets 6 BIG wins. We just lost to one of the worst teams on our own floor. Who the heck are we beating?
We're not winning anything next year either unless we strike gold in the portal.
About the same as KJ
Collins needs to re-think his rotation. Clayton getting way more minutes than he deserves, and getting 0 points from two starters is not a formula for success.
Complete Nonsense. CCC is one of the best HC’s in the B1G. The Assistant’s are top notch. The Wizard didn’t suddenly forget to Coach defense. CCC didn’t forget how to get the team ready to play. James didn’t suddenly lose his mind on teaching Big man defense, BMac is not neglecting teaching how to defend the puck and roll. The old default of blaming Coaches for every lose is tiresome. Players play.
What the **** did people expect this year? It’s a completely new team. 5 Freshman, including NU’s highest recruit ever and he clearly suffers from the typical inconsistency of Freshman. It was always going to be a ****** year record wise. We never had great lock down defenders but survived by good team defense which didn’t happen overnight. The team is just very bad defensively right now, but CLow didn’t get dumb this season.
We aren’t Michigan with millions of dollars to spend on transfers. We aren’t Illinois with an Eastern European National Team. The only reason I personally care about wins this year is for Nick. The other priority should be to get experience for Singleton, West, and even Kropp and Fish.
We are going to lose a bunch more games so sharpen up the hatchets. We saw this movie 4 years ago.
Now this makes sense. I would play more Mullins, ( he can at least defend) and work West with the starters more. I am not down on Reid as other people are, but he seems suited for a spark type of energy role. Singleton has to play and we need to live with the ups and downs. Despite all the criticism of Kropp, I would give him a few minutes and tell him to bang and at least attempt to rebound. AP gets caught in no man’s land too much and the opposition either scores on a goaltending call or a layup. Gelo has the same growing pains as Tre, but he needs to hit the glass harder or hit the pine. Green at least tries to rebound. KJ, I got no idea what’s going on, but doesn’t feel like we’ll see him again. Clayton should be a version of Ryan Greer and bit starting. He can add some value in the Greer role.
And all of that fan momentum built up over the NCAA years, incredible home court advantage, etc will be replaced with ambivalence, or worse, crowds packed with opposing teams' jerks. To say I'm bitter about this dumpster fire is accurate. Martinelli is such an amazing player and it's a travesty to waste his senior year.
It’s too bad the fans turn on their team; that says a lot more about the fans.
And please go read my other thread on our (lack of) two recruiting classes.
Oh stop. No it doesn’t. We thought we were past being a doormat (mainly because of what Collins has built to his credit) but it appears to not be the case barring something unforeseen. I’ve been here since 1997 and won’t be going anywhere. But am I pissed? Hell yes I am. And I expect better nowadays.
Unfortunately it’s pretty hard to find 6 wins left on this schedule. We’re going to be dogs in nearly every game
I’m sure 0-3 Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State fans all thought the same until play started.
I’m pissed too, but I try not to let it impair my judgment. The NU sports administration changes had a direct negative impact on this team. And BTW - the whole college sports world has changed in the last few years. Do you really think NU BB is, despite these changes, positioned to succeed each year without question? Do you really think Collins and staff are worse coaches / slacking off?
1. We have, arguably, the best player in the B1G. Probably AA with any supporting cast or success (wins)
2. Isn't this our highest ranked recruiting class ever?
But
3. Someone said above, in detail, that the coaches didn't forget how to coach. Then why can't we play defense? The excuse "it takes time" is weak. Other teams reload and the players learn the system. We are halfway through the season (and probably 100 practices together), and they look clueless on defense. The time to learn was Nov/Dec. It isn't going to "click" in time to salvage the season
They'll pick off a win or three from a bottom feeder(s) but that's it.
2. Isn't this our highest ranked recruiting class ever?
But
3. Someone said above, in detail, that the coaches didn't forget how to coach. Then why can't we play defense? The excuse "it takes time" is weak. Other teams reload and the players learn the system. We are halfway through the season (and probably 100 practices together), and they look clueless on defense. The time to learn was Nov/Dec. It isn't going to "click" in time to salvage the season
They'll pick off a win or three from a bottom feeder(s) but that's it.
1) if Nick is the best player in the B1G it’s a very bad argument. I love the guy but you need to check in on other teams like Michigan and Purdue.
2) we have 5 players directly out of HS. This is way more than typical and some just load up in the portal ( entire teams) and with older Foreign players. Which do you think will have a bigger short term impact?
3) see #2. I said 100 times over the years, you can’t be a top team without BOTH good players and good coaches. Right now, we don’t have experienced players at this level. If you think you can have the same level of execution after playing together for 4 months as you do as playing together for 4 years you are wrong. Players like Kopp never learn to play defense. Players like Boo start out bad, but end up pretty good.
This is the 2019-20 team part 2. The sooner everyone understands that the less frustrated we'll all be. It sucks for Mart, but that's the reality.
But the thing is, very few teams have players together for 4 years. Between early NBA declares and the Portal, most teams have an annual reshuffle of some sort. Teams get new players all the time, and the good teams don't take half a season to "click".
My main question/topic (not complaint) is why can't they play defense? The explanation I get is 'it takes time'. To me, that means you have a bottom 5 season every time there is significant turnover, and I think Collins & Co would argue that this would be unacceptable.
My secondary questions for you are a) do you feel there will be some "click" and this team will win, say, 6-7 B1G games? B) next year, we will lose seniors and possibly some portal guys, do their replacements also need a full year to click?
I like the staff and feel they will figure it out, but I feel like this team will take so long to "get it" that NU will win like 3 B1G games
Sadly you’re probably right but I thought we had a new floor (6-7 B1G wins). Guess not.
Personally, I am disappointed in the two home conference games. I know CCc said as much and it’s frustrating to see us give games away like yesterday.
I don’t think we’ll see another Freshman class of 5 with the portal and NIL. I expected the defensive struggles from the Freshman, but thought our 3 transfers would be far more advanced defensively. They are fine offensively, but a long way from adequate on the defensive end. This kills us. I can’t remember a hard foul on a drive all season. I am not condoning dirty play, but it’s a lay up line on defense and a message needs to be sent. It’s way too easy.
To answer your question, I don’t expect 6-7 B1G wins. However, I do expect improved defense and some of the younger players actually getting better. Someone besides Nick has to assume a leadership role.
We were ahead by 6 with 4:39 left on Saturday. We were up 9 in the 2nd half on Ohio State. We were up 6 in the 2nd half against both Virginia and Oklahoma State. They were right there with Butler without Nick. The team had enough talent to win all of these games, that's not really the issue. If they figure out some of the glaring issues they might win more games than we think. If they don't, it might be 3-17 or whatever.
In the 2019-20 season we were:
up by 6 with 5 minutes to play at DePaul and lost
up by 5 with 2 minutes to play vs Hartford and lost
up by 10 with 10 minutes and up by 5 with 3 minutes to go at IU and lost
up by 10 with 12 minutes to play vs Maryland (would've made tourney) and lost
up by 8 with 3 minutes to play vs Purdue and lost while not scoring in the last 4:30 of the game
up by 10 with 5 and a half minutes to play at Rutgers (would've made tourney) and lost in OT
up by 7 with 5 minutes to play at Nebraska and won (but needed OT)
We were also down by double digits in the first half in 10 conference games, and down by at least 20 at any point in 6 conference games.
up by 6 with 5 minutes to play at DePaul and lost
up by 5 with 2 minutes to play vs Hartford and lost
up by 10 with 10 minutes and up by 5 with 3 minutes to go at IU and lost
up by 10 with 12 minutes to play vs Maryland (would've made tourney) and lost
up by 8 with 3 minutes to play vs Purdue and lost while not scoring in the last 4:30 of the game
up by 10 with 5 and a half minutes to play at Rutgers (would've made tourney) and lost in OT
up by 7 with 5 minutes to play at Nebraska and won (but needed OT)
We were also down by double digits in the first half in 10 conference games, and down by at least 20 at any point in 6 conference games.
The glaring issue is that they don't know how to play defense, and, as i've heard from others here, "it takes time".
In the era of rosters changing every year, we don't have time
If we had used the Gonzaga hoop-guard™ method, we could have stopped the dunks on Sat.....
The "it takes time" argument is kind of a joke. Michigan has pretty much a brand new roster and they are blowing everyone's doors off. It shouldn't take this much time. We just don't have very good players. I think Nick is special with the ball in the paint, but he's a pretty horrible defender. He got burned on a couple of those switches that led to open layups against Minny. And he's our senior leader. Clayton and Mullens have been around the program for a couple years now and they are average at best. Page and Reid have been playing college basketball for a couple years now, so there shouldn't be this huge learning curve for them. We just lack talent this year.
The goal now should be to build up the freshmen and hit that portal hard in the offseason.
I guess you would rather say that all our players suck then.
BTW, the comparison to Michigan is ridiculous. They brought in players that were starters from North Carolina, Illinois, Ohio State, UCLA, and the Player of the year & Defensive Player of the year in the American Confernce (UAB) who was projected as a first round pick if he declared for the NBA draft. So yeah, more experienced higher caliber players will not take as much “time” to get it. If they aren’t this high caliber, it likely will take time. That is what we are experiencing. So call it a joke or throw in the towel that our players just aren’t good enough.
What this argument misses is that guys like Buie and Audige and Nicholson and Berry did actually improve markedly relative to other players, learning the defense (and offense). They were not the best players around; we NEVER have had the best players and I’d be hugely surprised if we ever will. We need time to make them better, from coaching expertise and player growth/effort. This has shown we can be quite competitive when that occurs.
My counterpoint to that is, particularly if they are one year players ( and who really isn't in the portal era) then, they will have figured it out about the time they're going to leave. Two thirds of the season is just too long
You are right, that this season was going to be rough bc of the roster and that doesn’t mean we will suck next year.
But why is it a foregone conclusion that this year had to be bad? To me, it’s a tragedy that this was the roster built around the final run with Martinelli. Why in the world did they settle for a ton of youth and a bunch of fringe roll players?
This model of “recruit high schoolers, take the lumps when they’re young but build for a future year where it all comes together” is totally antiquated in a post-NIL, post-portal world. If Collins and the assistants are so stellar, why are we headed for back to back crap seasons?
People on this board like to say how much better Collins is than Brad Underwood, but at least Illinois is consistently good. He’s in the tourney every year, and nowhere near the bubble. You can say “well he’s got more talent” or whatever, but college coaching is about building a team, coaching them, and getting wins.
You can’t just trot out a roster that had no chance and shrug it off as a youth movement. Not in 2025-2026. Martinelli is going to lead the conference in scoring and miss the 1st team all conference again, because voters will (understandably) say “best player on a terrible team” “of course he scores 20ppg, who else on that team was going to take shots from him”. It’s a shame because it was preventable and predicable. And avoidable.
Obviously money matters the most in this day and age, but there are still some factors that have to crush us in recruiting - and that extends to both high school and portal recruiting. Despite a little recent success, we still lack much history and I imagine most recruits don't see us as a program that will consistently compete or have a shot at a Final Four based on this lack of history. The other issue that I have to think continues to torment us is our lack of a big following. Our fan base is very small and we struggle to fill our own gym with fans. We do have the ability to get good crowds for key January/February BIG games when things are going well, but too often we are playing in a fairly empty arena. The crowds for the past few games have been abysmal. I know the students were away for break, but they were away for break at every college around the country, yet many other teams have enough of a fanbase that they can fill their (bigger) arenas with enthusiastic fans even without the students. I have to think recruits pick up on that lack of energy. I also think it probably affects our NIL pool compared to bigger schools who have so many more alums and fans to tap into.
So, we're asking a lot of Coach Collins to keep up with the Illinois and Wisconsins and Michigans of the world.
Yeah that’s a really good point. I’m just frustrated that they’re wasting an extra year of Martinelli.
19/20 team did not even remotely have a NM. And I believe this team has more raw talent. But they share the inexperience and naïveté.
Oh absolutely, and they didn't have an AP either. My point was more about the lack of defense and youth.