Saul 3/16

[Been Jammin]

Another strong episode. Show just seems to get better and better.

Maybe it is just me, but I really noticed that Odenkirk looked very old in this episode. In the previous episodes, I didn't feel like he looked clearly older than Saul of BB, but he did in this one.

 

[osutater]

Funny. I thought the same thing.

This show is so good.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Best Show on television, and it's not even close IMO. Only 3 episodes remainng this season.

 

[mseabolt]

Originally posted by Marshal Jim Duncan:

Only 3 episodes remainng this season.

This just isn't good enough .. we need more

 

[pokem]

with every episode, I like Saul more and more...

 

[osujfro]

It is so good. I wonder who was on the other end of the phone call at the end of the season. You know they are brining somebody in for the last episode of the season. Gus?

 

[hollywood]

When Mike was sitting on the bench in the courthouse, there was a display of "wanted posters" above him. I had my son take a look at them to see if anyone from BB was on there. So he studied them for a minute, but didn't recognize anyone.

Later when Saul is the bathroom on the phone and the big bearded dude knocks into him, my son said it was one of the guys from the wanted posters. It's the little things like that which the show runners have done such a great job with for both BB and Saul.

I loved how wifey-poo was so dead set against taking any deal or admitting guilt, UNTIL it was pointed out to her that her butt may end up in prison as well, then sending hubby away for 18 months and repaying the money didn't seem like such a bad deal to her. So long as her husband was the only one facing any consequences, she was going to keep hold of that money no matter what.

 

[Been Jammin]

Originally posted by SamuraiFred:
It is so good. I wonder who was on the other end of the phone call at the end of the season. You know they are brining somebody in for the last episode of the season. Gus?

I expect Gus to appear on the show, but don't expect it to happen so soon. They have to leave some cards to play in later seasons.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

I'm envious of you guys that can enjoy the scenes where Mike isn't in them. He is just brooding, moody greatness.

Anything with Saul and the blonde or Saul on his own just snooze me.

 

[shortbus]

It's not been nearly as good as you guys give it credit. I'm enjoying it, but I feel like it's more like a damn sitcom than anything. Just not enough happening.
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[Cowpoke]

Originally posted by hollywood:
When Mike was sitting on the bench in the courthouse, there was a display of "wanted posters" above him. I had my son take a look at them to see if anyone from BB was on there. So he studied them for a minute, but didn't recognize anyone.

Later when Saul is the bathroom on the phone and the big bearded dude knocks into him, my son said it was one of the guys from the wanted posters. It's the little things like that which the show runners have done such a great job with for both BB and Saul.

I loved how wifey-poo was so dead set against taking any deal or admitting guilt, UNTIL it was pointed out to her that her butt may end up in prison as well, then sending hubby away for 18 months and repaying the money didn't seem like such a bad deal to her. So long as her husband was the only one facing any consequences, she was going to keep hold of that money no matter what.

I paused and looked through them as well.
I'm waiting on a passing reference to "Captain Cook"

 

[Cowpoke]

Originally posted by 100TonsofOrangeFury:
I'm envious of you guys that can enjoy the scenes where Mike isn't in them. He is just brooding, moody greatness.

Anything with Saul and the blonde or Saul on his own just snooze me.

I was enjoying the show before he reallyshowed up, but after that Mike centric episode last week, this week's felt a bit mundane. I bet this show becomes as much about him as Saul.

 

[pokem]

 

[MegaPoke]

Tons and SB are high. This is must-watch TV, and I don't say that because of the hype. It's genuinely the one show I have to watch the night it aired.

It's off to a stronger start than BB and is one of the very few highly anticipated things in recent years that is genuinely not overrated.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Originally posted by MegaPoke:
Tons and SB are high.

If I was, maybe I'd enjoy it more. It's good, and better than most else on TV, but you guys are overrating because everyone so badly WANTED it to be great.

 

[MegaPoke]

I disagree. But to each his own. I've been disappointed by many overhyped things. This hooked me right away.
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[shortbus]

I agree with Tons.

It may get better. I'm not giving up on it, but it's not what it's being built up to be at this point.
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[Cowpoke]

Originally posted by 100TonsofOrangeFury:

Originally posted by MegaPoke:
Tons and SB are high.

If I was, maybe I'd enjoy it more. It's good, and better than most else on TV, but you guys are overrating because everyone so badly WANTED it to be great.

Kind of the opposite for me. I really didnt expect much, I thought it being Saul centered would make it light and campy, but I figured it would be entertaining. I expected it to be more light on story, almost one off episodish (though with a light continuous story undeneath). I think this is basically going to end up being a breaking bad/ the early years, show though.

 

[MegaPoke]

Originally posted by Cowpoke:

Originally posted by 100TonsofOrangeFury:

Originally posted by MegaPoke:
Tons and SB are high.

If I was, maybe I'd enjoy it more. It's good, and better than most else on TV, but you guys are overrating because everyone so badly WANTED it to be great.

Kind of the opposite for me. I really didnt expect much, I thought it being Saul centered would make it light and campy, but I figured it would be entertaining. I expected it to be more light on story, almost one off episodish (though with a light continuous story undeneath). I think this is basically going to end up being a breaking bad/ the early years, show though.

Well said. In fact, I thought there was a better chance of it ruining BB's legacy than being strong on it's own. The history of spinoffs is bleak and although I was hopeful, I wasn't drinking any koolaid. I'm not such a BB fanboy that I would not hold BCS to the same account that I hold the ****** Star Wars prequels if it wasn't awesome.

Like I said, SB and Tons - you guys are OG around here and all, but you almost have to be trying to find a reason to not be impressed by this show at this point. The characters are strong and the story lines are awesome. Vince G is absolutely at the top of his game.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

OK, let me be more specific. Here are my thoughts:

1) Saul himself is sort a semi-ambitious drifter in life--what is he trying to do? Win the girl? Get rich? Be famous? I think maybe all three but if we don't know that and why by now, why don't we? What is his history with his brother? Why haven't we been made to know or care by now?

2) Blondie is cute but mundane, why does she like this washout lawyer and why do we care about her?

3) Brother is crazy, but at least he's finally evolving. Do we care what he evolves into?

Great shows have great characters whose histories you at least vaguely understand and can rely upon to create in the viewer some desire about where that character should or might go in the future.

"He's troubled but brilliant (Don Draper), how will this shake out?"

"He's dying but noble and possibly capable of mass criminality to achieve his dying wishes (Walter White)"

"He's got a past a mile long, and it may jump up and bite him (Mike Ermentraut)"

These types of characters pull you along in their struggle forward to someplace. Saul seems to be going nowhere in particular for no particular reason, and thus I only mildly care what happens to him.

This is just the absolute definition of the storylines not being well defined or "awesome".

 

[Been Jammin]

Originally posted by 100TonsofOrangeFury:
OK, let me be more specific. Here are my thoughts:

1) Saul himself is sort a semi-ambitious drifter in life--what is he trying to do? Win the girl? Get rich? Be famous? I think maybe all three but if we don't know that and why by now, why don't we? What is his history with his brother? Why haven't we been made to know or care by now?

2) Blondie is cute but mundane, why does she like this washout lawyer and why do we care about her?

3) Brother is crazy, but at least he's finally evolving. Do we care what he evolves into?

Great shows have great characters whose histories you at least vaguely understand and can rely upon to create in the viewer some desire about where that character should or might go in the future.

"He's troubled but brilliant (Don Draper), how will this shake out?"

"He's dying but noble and possibly capable of mass criminality to achieve his dying wishes (Walter White)"

"He's got a past a mile long, and it may jump up and bite him (Mike Ermentraut)"

These types of characters pull you along in their struggle forward to someplace. Saul seems to be going nowhere in particular for no particular reason, and thus I only mildly care what happens to him.

This is just the absolute definition of the storylines not being well defined or "awesome".

My thoughts:

1). The whole point of the show is that Saul is a loser who is trying to find his way. He has never been successful at anything other than hustling others. He knows that his future potential is limited if he continues to hustle, so he is trying to break out of that world and make himself successful while walking the straight and narrow. I find his struggle, to walk down the path of legitimacy while constantly being pulled down the other path, compelling.

I think it has been made pretty clear that his brother has always been successful and has not approved of Jimmy's lifestyle/choices. Jimmy has idolized his brother and desperately wants to make him (Chuck) proud of him (Jimmy).

2). Agree. My take is that she is just there so that there will be a female main character in the show. In BB, Skylar and Marie were both somewhat minor characters, but Skylar developed into a somewhat major character who you cared about (not so much Marie). At this point, it is hard to see how Blondie ever becomes interesting.

3). I like what they have done with Chuck. You pretty much know everything you need to know about him. He was a super successful lawyer who developed a crippling mental disorder. I think we all suspect that at some point he will die/get committed/move away since we didn't see him in BB. However, it is possible that he was still around in BB, but we just never saw him due to the storyline being about Walt/Jesse and not about what was going on in Saul's personal life. Personally, I am very curious about what happens in Chuck's future.

 

[Been Jammin]

p.s. Back to # 2.. If I am VInce Gilligan, I am adding a new character who is a female hustler. She is frequently getting into trouble and Jimmy is keeping her out of jail. Eventually, Jimmy/Saul is using her skills to help get his other clients out of trouble (like he used Mike in the last episode and in BB). That way, you have a female character who is interesting and you can fade blondie out of the story.

 

[shortbus]

Well my problem is we've got a lot of things with potential but are you gonna spend the whole damn season building up characters and getting us invested and then drop a cliffhanger on us in order to get us to watch the second season?

I need something more than that.

Where is the brother thing going?

Why waste so much time on boring, mundane, crazy brother, issues?

Why invest so much in the girl?

When will there be suspense? Mike has been the only real compelling storyline to this point.

The rest has been boring seemingly irrelevant side plots and Jimmy being Jimmy.

When do they get my brain engaged?
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[Chillwell]

I like the show a lot. And am in pretty much agreement with BJ's answers to Tons criticisms (which means I agree with Tons on the blonde friend - she's been my least favorite part). It's easy to see why Jimmy is into her...trying to win her over, etc., but not so much why she would care about him.

Jimmy's story is easy for me to follow and enjoy. He's a smart, crafty guy who has lived on the edges for years, but is now trying to go straight. It's a struggle for him, and even though I know how it is going to end for him, I'm rooting for him.

I also like the Chuck story line and Jimmy's interactions with him. It adds a dimension to Jimmy's character, shows he's not a complete hustler...that he has a heart. Beyond his looking up to Chuck, he seems to truly care about him. I mean it seemed obvious to me that Jimmy stored all that pending work of his, while stating the wrong form number, purposefully in an attempt to help Chuck...to give him some work, possibly motivate him, give some purpose again.


I did love BB; it's my favorite TV drama of all time. I guess it's possible my love for BB is impacting the way I view this show. However, I did not have great expectations for BCS; in fact, I'm actually surprised at how much I've enjoy it. I thought the Saul/Jimmy character in BB was primarily comic relief and figured this show would be similar...more goofy hijinx than drama. But I think it's doing a nice job of weaving the two together.


This post was edited on 3/19 1:44 PM by Chillwell

 

[Chillwell]

BTW, even though she was a minor character, I loved Mrs. Kettleman. What a piece of work. I loved Jimmy's comment to her when telling her she was going to jail... "you'll probably be head of your own gang."

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Originally posted by Chillwell:
BTW, even though she was a minor character, I loved Mrs. Kettleman. What a piece of work. I loved Jimmy's comment to her when telling her she was going to jail... "you'll probably be head of your own gang."

That was a great line. I was mildly disappointed for her after I realized she wanted hubby in jail so she could run off with the money, then Jimmy ruined the whole idea.

 

[Cowpoke]

I bet we get some sort of back story on blondie soon explaining why they are close. I'm guessing they grew up together or something.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Originally posted by Cowpoke:
I bet we get some sort of back story on blondie soon explaining why they are close. I'm guessing they grew up together or something.

I feel certain there will be some back story development on Kim Wexler in the last 3 episodes. My bet is they went to law school together, although Jimmy is clearly older.

 

[Been Jammin]

There is often a significant age disparity within a law school class. Not everyone starts law school straight after undergrad. For some, it is a second career.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Right, I understand that.

 

[Bitter Creek]

Originally posted by 100TonsofOrangeFury:

Originally posted by Chillwell:
BTW, even though she was a minor character, I loved Mrs. Kettleman. What a piece of work. I loved Jimmy's comment to her when telling her she was going to jail... "you'll probably be head of your own gang."

That was a great line. I was mildly disappointed for her after I realized she wanted hubby in jail so she could run off with the money, then Jimmy ruined the whole idea.

That was a fun 90 seconds. Ms Kettleman is the criminal that you never see coming.

 

[JonnyVito]

I thought Jimmy got bailed out by Chuck and Jimmy made a promise to go clean if he helped him. Then Jimmy went to law school to become a lawyer. That would explain the age difference thing if they met in law school. I might be remembering that wrong though.

 

[shortbus]

Mrs. Kettleman was pretty awesome. Her poor husband is so blinded by her that he can't see that she only cares about the money.
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