with a new coach. What program can you think of that went from perennial loser to above average or better, and what do you attribute that to?
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Schools You've Seen Do An About Face?
- Thread starter Random UK Fan
- Start date
Kansas State. For 50 years they made UK look like Notre Dame and were something like 3-40-1 in the four seasons prior to hiring Bill Snyder.
and after his 4th season there they were 18-26. He had his break out year in his 5th season going 9-2.
They were 7-4 in his third season and clearly headed in the right direction. We look just like we did four years ago.
Just so happened I had researched this topic once before and saved my notes...
SEC Turnarounds
Vandy: 11-26 the 3 years before Franklin. Franklin's 1st 3 years ('11 - '13): 6-7, 9-4, 9-4; 6 wins in 1st year
TN: 16-21 the 3 years before Jones, Jones 1st 3 years ('13 - '15): 5-7, 7-6, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
MSU: 15-22 the 3 years before Mullens. Mullens' record ('09 - '15): 5-7, 9-4, 7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 10-3, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
MS: 15 - 22 the 3 years before Freeze. Freeze's record ('12 - '15): 7-6, 8-5, 9-4, 8-5, 10-3; 6 wins in 1st year
TN: 16-21 the 3 years before Jones, Jones 1st 3 years ('13 - '15): 5-7, 7-6, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
MSU: 15-22 the 3 years before Mullens. Mullens' record ('09 - '15): 5-7, 9-4, 7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 10-3, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
MS: 15 - 22 the 3 years before Freeze. Freeze's record ('12 - '15): 7-6, 8-5, 9-4, 8-5, 10-3; 6 wins in 1st year
BIG Turnarounds
MN: 17 - 33 the 4 years before Kill. Kill's record ('11 - '15): 3-9, 6-7, 8-5, 8-5, 6-7; 6 wins in 2nd year
PAC 12 Turnarounds
UCLA: 21-30 the 4 years before Mora. Mora's record ('12 - '15): 9-5, 10-3, 10-3, 8-5; 6 wins in 1st year
ASU: 21-28 the 4 years before Graham. Graham's record ('12 - '15): 8-5, 10-4, 10-3, 6-7; 6 wins in 1st year
STAN: 16-40 the 5 years before Harbaugh/Shaw. Harbaugh/Shaw record ('07 - '15): 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1 & 11-2, 12-2, 11-3, 8-5, 12-2; 6 wins in (Harbaugh's) 3rd year
WSU: 9-40 the 4 years before Leach. Leach's record ('12 - '15): 3-9, 6-7, 3-9, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
CAL: 15-22 the 3 years before Dykes. Dykes record ('13 - '15): 1-11, 5-7, 8-5; 6 wins in 3rd year
ASU: 21-28 the 4 years before Graham. Graham's record ('12 - '15): 8-5, 10-4, 10-3, 6-7; 6 wins in 1st year
STAN: 16-40 the 5 years before Harbaugh/Shaw. Harbaugh/Shaw record ('07 - '15): 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1 & 11-2, 12-2, 11-3, 8-5, 12-2; 6 wins in (Harbaugh's) 3rd year
WSU: 9-40 the 4 years before Leach. Leach's record ('12 - '15): 3-9, 6-7, 3-9, 9-4; 6 wins in 2nd year
CAL: 15-22 the 3 years before Dykes. Dykes record ('13 - '15): 1-11, 5-7, 8-5; 6 wins in 3rd year
BIG XII-II Turnarounds
Baylor: 12-23 the 3 years before Briles. Briles record ('08 - '15): 4-8, 4-8, 7-6, 10-3, 8-5, 11-2, 11-2, 10-3; 6 wins 3rd year
ACC Turnarounds
Duke: 2-23 the 3 years before Cutcliffe. Cutcliffe's record ('08 - '15): 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9, 6-7, 10-4, 9-4, 8-5; 6 wins in 5th year
UofL: 15 - 21 the 3 years before Strong/Petrino. Strong/Petrino record ('10 - '15): 7-6, 7-6, 11-2, 12-1 & 9-4, 8-5; 6 Wins in (Strong's) 1st year
UofL: 15 - 21 the 3 years before Strong/Petrino. Strong/Petrino record ('10 - '15): 7-6, 7-6, 11-2, 12-1 & 9-4, 8-5; 6 Wins in (Strong's) 1st year
Of the 13 teams above, 5 saw 6 wins in year 1 of a new staff, 4 in year 2 of a new staff, 3 in year 3 of a new staff and 1 in year 4 of a new staff. The only real "how" here is good coaching. For reference:
UK Status: 13-24 the 3 years before Stoops. Stoop's 1st 3 years ('13 - '15): 2-10, 5-7, 5-7; No 6 win season yet
So it can be done. It just takes the right guy. Other than Harbaugh I'm not sure how many of the above coaches were considered top drawer at the time they initiated these turnarounds.
Peace
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Nice list, but not sure how many are examples for Kentucky. A lot of those aren't perennial losers. They are examples of turnarounds from a bad coach. They had good seasons. Just a dip and someone brought them back. Arizona State, Tennessee, UCLA, etc...Even Louisville was winning nice bowls in the 90's. JLS was able to quickly fix Ron Cooper and Strong fixed Steve Kragthorpe. Those are schools that one coach won't kill.
I think of those Baylor, Duke, and Vandy are most impressive. Those are programs that were built. But Vandy's success should go more to Bobby Johnson. Franklin just helped carry the winning upward. Kansas State mentioned above is the most miraculous example.
One never mentioned is Northwestern. They used to be Kansas State level, plus maybe worse was that they reveled in it. Gary Barnett deserves a lot of credit for turning every part of that program around. Left a good foundation for others to build on. That's who I think we're closest to. Not just play on the field, but expectations and confidence of fans and administration all has to be fixed.
I'd say Duke is the closest example to what Kentucky faces and as you can see it took Cutcliffe a few years to get that program turned around. Actually Cutcliffe would have been fired by UK before he could have turned it around.
Boise..byu..otis..oregon..with a new coach. What program can you think of that went from perennial loser to above average or better, and what do you attribute that to?
with a new coach. What program can you think of that went from perennial loser to above average or better, and what do you attribute that to?
What's strange here is I remember him as the picture on the left, he grew up in my hometown.
When reading this I had 2 schools come to mind. Both are perennial losers. In fact going solely on all time winning percentage they are two of the worst football programs of all time.
I hate to acknowledge them for anything good or successful the Duke Blue Devils. They have been around for 90+ season's and in that span have compiled a .490 all time winning percentage. They past 4 season's have been the exact opposite of the awful history. Coach David Cutcliffe has led them to 4 consecutive bowl games. Finishing with records of 6-7, 10-4, 9-4 and 8-5.
Next is none other than Coach Cal's old stomping grounds in the Memphis Tigers. Their program hast been around as long as the aforementioned Dukies. They have been on the wrong side of history for 56 or 57 season's with a .475 all time winning percentage. This turn around hasn't been as impressive to this point because it's only been on for 2 season's. Its also in a lesser conference than the ACC that is the American Conference. I also see the Tigers as harder to keep alive for 2 reasons. First QB Paxton Lynch has taken his talent to the NFL. Secondly HC Justin Fuente now has some pretty big shoes to fill in Frank Beamers at Va Tech. In their last 2 season's the newly departed Lynch and Fuente led the Tigers to records of 10-3 and 9-3.
I hate to acknowledge them for anything good or successful the Duke Blue Devils. They have been around for 90+ season's and in that span have compiled a .490 all time winning percentage. They past 4 season's have been the exact opposite of the awful history. Coach David Cutcliffe has led them to 4 consecutive bowl games. Finishing with records of 6-7, 10-4, 9-4 and 8-5.
Next is none other than Coach Cal's old stomping grounds in the Memphis Tigers. Their program hast been around as long as the aforementioned Dukies. They have been on the wrong side of history for 56 or 57 season's with a .475 all time winning percentage. This turn around hasn't been as impressive to this point because it's only been on for 2 season's. Its also in a lesser conference than the ACC that is the American Conference. I also see the Tigers as harder to keep alive for 2 reasons. First QB Paxton Lynch has taken his talent to the NFL. Secondly HC Justin Fuente now has some pretty big shoes to fill in Frank Beamers at Va Tech. In their last 2 season's the newly departed Lynch and Fuente led the Tigers to records of 10-3 and 9-3.
Duke won 2 games in 3 years and you are comparing them to us????
Cutcliffe got them 4 wins the first year. Double what they had gotgen the previous 3 years combined. He then got to 5 wins showing progress and more wins then they had gotten before. So hes earned some patience with them. Next 2 seasons he won 3 games each and their was some talk going around and then bam bowl game nexf season after that. Here is his record. 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9, 6-7, 10-4, 9-4, 8-5
Do you want to compare that to Stools record vs the 3 years prior??? At least Joker did beat UT and got us to a bowl game. Also beat UL as well. His beatings havent looked as bad as some that stools has taken.
Using Jokers bowl season is not the greatest example. Due to the fact it was Brooks team. That team still has some of his mentality to it. Just look how successful he was the farther we got from Brooks tenure. It reminds me of Tubbys championship with Pitinos team.
Not going to deny that of what you said but be still beat UT in year 2.
As of right now joker looks to be on the same level or maybe a little better coach than Stoops. Not in the same strotosphere with recruiting though. The biggest blundering game joker had was at Ark when they called the game in the 3rd due to the weather and the score was bad as well. Stoops has had a couple games on that level. SMU, UL, EKU, UT, Georgia etc
If Brooks had the talent we do now i think we would have won 8 games last season and prob this season as well, maybe even 9 with the way teams are looking in the east.
He had 11 straight bowl trips at TT ...won 6 at wsu in his second year and 9 last year and two bowl trips...come back when MS has done that.
And Washington State is a tougher job than Kentucky IMO. Not a big name in a very remote locale. He'd have a much higher ceiling here.
I would say that we had luck on our sides for that game. The upper classmen still carried Brooks toughness. When you can win with a WR playing QB while only throwing 6 passes. Something is wrong with that.
Iowa has been a good or respectable program since 81. Yes they had a few bad season's sprinkled in. He took over for long time coach Hayden Fry. Fry had Iowa in way better shape than UK. Fry led Iowa to a pretty impressive record of 143-89-6. What makes that so impressive is the fact that before Fry Iowa hadn't finished a season with a record over .500 for 17 season's.
Fry brought Ferentz in as one of his assistants. Other notable assistants were Bill Snyder, Job Stoops, Mike Stoops, Bret Bielema and Jim Leavitt.
Recently UNC hell they were on probation not long ago and almost got into playoffs last year. Plus they have entered this year in top 20.
True that Fry built a pretty good program and sustained some success. His last season was 3-8 though. Iowa and Kentucky are similar in size, both need to recruit outside their state, and both have decent fan bases. There is no reason why KY can't have as good a program as Iowa.
no he wouldnt have. Because having a winning record in 7 of his 8 years at Ole Miss was proof he knew what he was doing. Stoops has no prior winning experience... same with Joker.
Northwestern 95 stands out to me because of how sudden and unexpected it was.
For decades Northwestern was the Big 10's perennial last place doormat, the program looked utterly hopeless, and then BOOM, in one miraculous season they go from last place to first place with several staggering upsets of Top 10 teams week after week.
Not sure I've ever seen a more dramatic turnaround in just one season, it was like something out of a fairy tale.
For decades Northwestern was the Big 10's perennial last place doormat, the program looked utterly hopeless, and then BOOM, in one miraculous season they go from last place to first place with several staggering upsets of Top 10 teams week after week.
Not sure I've ever seen a more dramatic turnaround in just one season, it was like something out of a fairy tale.
As someone else noted, this one does not impress me that much because Iowa had an overall reputation as a winning program. Ferentz' predecessor (Hayden Frye) had taken Iowa to several Rose Bowls and won far more than he lost there. That 1-10 season was a rare anomaly for Iowa football, not the norm, so it did not seem all that surprising when Ferentz got them back on the winning track.
More impressive (and a better analogy to our situation) are examples like Kansas State and Northwestern in the 90s. Those were considered utterly hopeless graveyard programs where it was thought impossible to win until Snyder and Barnett came to town.
And, btw, another example is the job Schnellenberger did at Louisville. The UL program was a hopeless train wreck before that, in fact they came very close to dropping to a lower division or dropping football altogether the year before Schnellenberger's arrival. He completely changed EVERYTHING about UL football, including the way people have perceived the program ever since.
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Kansas State. Northwestern. Kentucky...maybe it is the name of the mascot that has historically held us back!
Also the last season Fry coached there was an outside factor. Without a doubt in my mind the fact that he was undergoing radation treatments effected that season. He was probably physically drained and had more important things on his mind then football. I would say he more than likely wasn't ready to walk away from the game he loved an was passionate about.