See that dot between Saturn's rings?
- Thread starter WVU82_rivals
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It's all there 'by accident' don't you know? Us too. We're just a little 'blip' in the Cosmos that just happened to 'show up' one day out of nowhere. Here today, gone tomorrow. No Creator, just a little spec of accidental cosmic dust.
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Here is Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" speech.
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994
I see us as we are, a special place created among the stars by our Creator who is beyond any thing else created around us. That little dot makes our insignificance relative to all the rest of the cosmos even more significant because none of it is there by accident.
You can look at that little dot in the middle of nowhere and know there is nothing else exactly like it in all of the rest of those little twinlking dots out there. In fact that pattern of uniqueness is infintely observable throught the cosmos, and no two dots are excatlly alike, and there are billions of them out there...more than we can ever count!
Now you can go ahead an believe (not you Cajuneer) that it's all some giant accident, but then you'd have to explain the next big question? Why no duplicates, why such precision in the unique designs and why can't we (humans) understand the easily explainable accidental nature of it all to do it ourselves?
That's an awesome picture you posted that should cause believers in our creation to be even more awe inspired while Leftists and Athiests suggest of all of that design complexity just popping up out of nowhere in it's perfeclty uniquely designed brialliance without the direction of a master designer giving each addition uniqueness.
Just like that little dot shows we are.
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I think that you would really like that video I linked. The "physicists" who cried--out of contest, we were tricked-- after it's release, were actually just upset that they got candid about the crisis in physics and the documentarian drew different conclusions than the physicists themselves had.
Why can't people just say "I don't know" when they don't know? Instead we get "That looks amazing. So how did it happen? Must be God." Why must people insist they know when instead they believe?
If things can't exist without a Creator or Designer and thus there must be a Creator or Designer for every single thing then that means the Creator or Designer Itself needed a Creator or Designer. Right?
If the Creator or Designer CAN exist without being created or designed then why can't anything else exist without being created or designed?
If you're making a special exception that although everything else needs a Creator, the Creator Itself does not then can't you see that you're conveniently making a special exception for yourself?
Instead of all these mental gymnastics why not just say "That's awesome" and then if you like add "and I think God did it" and then stop. Why insist God did it when the reality is that neither you nor I know?
If things can't exist without a Creator or Designer and thus there must be a Creator or Designer for every single thing then that means the Creator or Designer Itself needed a Creator or Designer. Right?
If the Creator or Designer CAN exist without being created or designed then why can't anything else exist without being created or designed?
If you're making a special exception that although everything else needs a Creator, the Creator Itself does not then can't you see that you're conveniently making a special exception for yourself?
Instead of all these mental gymnastics why not just say "That's awesome" and then if you like add "and I think God did it" and then stop. Why insist God did it when the reality is that neither you nor I know?
Existence as we understand it is limited in time, to space, and of matter. What creates is always greater than what is created. Time, space, and matter, being created by God, cannot contain or limit God since he is greater than what he created. Therefore, the limits of existence from the perspective within creation cannot have relevance to what exists beyond the physical realm--the metaphysical. The question,"Who created God?" is then nonsense prima facia. God simply is. In fact, that is his name as Yahweh means "I AM."
If the concept of God in question is one of an entity beyond time, space and matter then AFAIC it's all the more reason to say "I believe" and leave it at that instead of saying we're sure.
It's the reaction of a soul under conviction--the cognitive dissidence resulting from the disintegration of his express philosophy in the face of rational argument.Why do you have to go on about it every time the subject comes up?
I think you have it backwards. My philosophy before now and also now is "We don't know." It hasn't disintegrated. But the people that say they do know have to pretend they do know because the alternative is to face the cognitive dissonance resulting from the disintegration of their philosophy if they admit they don't know. That's what people struggle against.
With regards to many issues, not just this one, people don't like saying "I don't know." There is security in certainty.
No! Illogical. By definition there has to be a starting point, a genesis of everything except the original Creator. Everything with design was created, the Creator has no designer because the Creator wasn't created. The Creator is the source, the original, the logical starting point. We as finite beings can't comprehend that just as we surely cannot easily comprehend infinity, or omniscience, or omnipresence, or omnipotence.
However among what we can see are infinite combinations of created things which give us a glimpse into the boundless infinity of creation itself and of the Creator. Every author of something created leaves a mark of their creation to distinguish it from every other created thing. It's an "autograph" of design, so you instantly know who designed the creation. Our "marks" if you will, are the infinite expressions of an infinite being who is not bound by our limitations or what is impossible to us. The Creator's "signature" is in our uniqueness. not just people, but everything the Creator does. It is unique. Uncopied. Unduplicated. Unequalled. Just like the Creator! That's the "mark" of an infinite being. Doing something that cannot be copied or duplicated by anything or anyone else. Just like the Creator cannot be.
You're right Op2, we don't really know... however we do believe. But our belief is not hung on some abstract idea. We can measure the magnificence of the creation by it's design complexity which supports the idea of an intelligent infinite being beyond our ability to comprehend, copy, or create. We cannot copy in nature that which is created, just as we cannot duplicate the original Creator.
Our logic and God's word speaks to his being the Alpha and the Omega...the beginning and the end. From which all that is comes from. We don't understand that, which is why we call it Faith. But it is Faith based on observable Truths that are confirmed in God's Holy word, confirmed in his promises to Mankind and revealed in and through the creation of the cosmos and all other known matter.
Your only choice is to accept or reject that.
I think you know where you stand Op2.
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