Shelton -- WHY ?

retsio

Senior
Feb 18, 2003
262
697
93
After watching Shelton run around looking at the OSU players, watching what is happening --- and not blocking - WHY is he in the game, dressed in a uniform, and on the team -- WHY?
Since the OLine did not have any push except on certain plays - why play the same old, same old names that are not producing - is there any motivation for an entire 60 minutes ??
Kraft was on the sidelines - Penn State NEEDS to clean house - can he do it and forget how much it costs - the 'Cordinators' are not good !!
 

[email protected]

Sophomore
Oct 17, 2023
183
119
43
After watching Shelton run around looking at the OSU players, watching what is happening --- and not blocking - WHY is he in the game, dressed in a uniform, and on the team -- WHY?
Since the OLine did not have any push except on certain plays - why play the same old, same old names that are not producing - is there any motivation for an entire 60 minutes ??
Kraft was on the sidelines - Penn State NEEDS to clean house - can he do it and forget how much it costs - the 'Cordinators' are not good !!
AGREED!!
 
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ConcealedCarry

Sophomore
Nov 7, 2015
74
162
33
After watching Shelton run around looking at the OSU players, watching what is happening --- and not blocking - WHY is he in the game, dressed in a uniform, and on the team -- WHY?
Since the OLine did not have any push except on certain plays - why play the same old, same old names that are not producing - is there any motivation for an entire 60 minutes ??
Kraft was on the sidelines - Penn State NEEDS to clean house - can he do it and forget how much it costs - the 'Cordinators' are not good !!
The Offensive line is offensive to say the least. This line is the product of pass first run second football. Under Franklin , POWER football was ignored. They simply were not coached to RUN BLOCK. I have been screaming about it 10 years.
 

BiochemPSU

All-Conference
Jun 13, 2016
1,115
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Center recruiting has been awful under Franklin. I swear it leads to guys playing out of position which forces that one guy who should be a backup into a starting spot.
 

royboy

Sophomore
Nov 9, 2001
82
161
33
When does Cooper Cousins emerge as an elite player or even as a quality starter? Is he dinged up, not being used correctly, or just another mediocre player who was over-rated and didn't develop?
 

Nittering Nabob

All-Conference
Sep 17, 2024
2,458
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When does Cooper Cousins emerge as an elite player or even as a quality starter? Is he dinged up, not being used correctly, or just another mediocre player who was over-rated and didn't develop?
With only four games left, we might see some new players next week. They can play and still redshirt
 

BBHorn86

Sophomore
Dec 6, 2003
89
197
33
"MIGHT" is the operative word here! We have lost 6 straight games? Play all the under classmen.....get them game experience and start preparing for next year!
Next year? The majority of this roster, good players, bad players and everyone else in between will be elsewhere. The first job for the new coach will be making sure we even have 22 guys to suit up. PSU will be the doormat of the Big Ten for at least two seasons if not more. The only thing these players will be playing for is to impress for the portal.
 

Warner25

Redshirt
Nov 11, 2023
3
2
3
Not necessarily true. With the right coaching hire and support from the fanbase the program can be turned around fairly quickly. If Indiana can do it anybody in college football can do it. The fanbase has to be willing to accept that 20 or so NIL transfers need to be brought in by the new HC. Some will be mercenaries. That is completely anathema to the thinking of most PSU fans. Otherwise it will be a 4-5 year rebuild.
 
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JVP_Yahweh

Senior
Nov 29, 2004
5,225
846
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IF they can keep the 2026 and 2027 classes together they have some decent OL prospects on the way. They also miss Bowen. Tengwall alluded to this many times
 
Last edited:
May 11, 2012
408
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Next year? The majority of this roster, good players, bad players and everyone else in between will be elsewhere. The first job for the new coach will be making sure we even have 22 guys to suit up. PSU will be the doormat of the Big Ten for at least two seasons if not more. The only thing these players will be playing for is to impress for the portal.
Yeah, Yea i have heard these doomsday expressions before.......and PSU wasn't going to be relevant for 10 years after the scandal .
 

TigersandLions

Redshirt
Nov 14, 2021
13
14
3
IF they can keep the 2026 and 2027 classes together they have some decent OL prospects on the way. They also miss Bowen. Tegwell alluded to this many times
The 2027 class is gone no? and even guys like Sieg from 2026 have re-opened their recruitment.
 

PSUFTG

All-Conference
Nov 1, 2021
2,079
3,285
113
IF they can keep the 2026 and 2027 classes together they have some decent OL prospects on the way. They also miss Bowen. Tegwell alluded to this many times
Over the last 4 years, PSU has brought in 10 "blue chip" (4 or 5 star recruits) on the offensive line. (And also a couple of former high end recruits as transfers)
Five of those guys were national Top 100 (all positions) recruits - the bluest of the blue chips.
9 of them have been here at least 2 years.

How could anyone reasonably assume - or even hope - that another year of the same makes a difference?

[Spoiler: They will not be "keeping those classes together". But I doubt it makes much difference either way]
 
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Bwifan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
2,535
4,434
113
Over the last 4 years, PSU has brought in 10 "blue chip" (4 or 5 star recruits) on the offensive line. (And also a couple of former high end recruits as transfers)
Five of those guys were national Top 100 (all positions) recruits - the bluest of the blue chips.
9 of them have been here at least 2 years.

How could anyone reasonably assume - or even hope - that another year of the same makes a difference?

[Spoiler: They will not be "keeping those classes together". But I doubt it makes much difference either way]
I used to try to defend Trautwein in the past as in my view he was a step up from our previous oline coach but this year especially the oline entirely have taken a massive step backwards. That is on him totally. As you said he has the top recruits to develop and has flopped. Last years online I believe overrated as well only at the end of the year did they play decent
 

Pennst8

Senior
Oct 25, 2021
401
420
63
After watching Shelton run around looking at the OSU players, watching what is happening --- and not blocking - WHY is he in the game, dressed in a uniform, and on the team -- WHY?
Since the OLine did not have any push except on certain plays - why play the same old, same old names that are not producing - is there any motivation for an entire 60 minutes ??
Kraft was on the sidelines - Penn State NEEDS to clean house - can he do it and forget how much it costs - the 'Cordinators' are not good !!
Trautwein blows
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,469
2,338
113
The 2027 class is gone no? and even guys like Sieg from 2026 have re-opened their recruitment.
The 2027 class is of little worry, there will be plenty of time to recruit them after the new coach is hired. It's 2026 that is the concern because we may not hire a coach until quite late in the recruiting cycle, which would put a ton of emphasis on recruiting via the portal. Surely Kraft is aware of this and has had conversations with boosters to start securing big time NIL money if we need to fill one class largely from the portal.
 

PrtLng Lion

All-Conference
Nov 25, 2017
1,109
1,694
113
In addition to the current OL coach, it seems like most of our coaches/coordinators under JF haven't exactly torn it up.

Which would you take back? I'd take Moorhead, Diaz (probably), and Spencer but am struggling to think of many that consistently excelled during the Franklin regime.
 
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Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
11,421
18,796
113
In addition to the current OL coach, it seems like most of our coaches/coordinators under JF haven't exactly torn it up.

Which would you take back? I'd take Moorhead, Diaz (probably), and Spencer but am struggling to think of many that consistently excelled during the Franklin regime.

Seider.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,469
2,338
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In addition to the current OL coach, it seems like most of our coaches/coordinators under JF haven't exactly torn it up.

Which would you take back? I'd take Moorhead, Diaz (probably), and Spencer but am struggling to think of many that consistently excelled during the Franklin regime.
I have no interest in Moorhead, I think most PSU fans significantly overrate him. Seider and Spencer were solid. The strength and conditioning coaches have been good. Dex and Smith are worth keeping. Huff. Joe Brady, Elijah Robinson. Diaz.
 
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fastlax16

Senior
Jan 1, 2014
420
514
93
Next year? The majority of this roster, good players, bad players and everyone else in between will be elsewhere. The first job for the new coach will be making sure we even have 22 guys to suit up. PSU will be the doormat of the Big Ten for at least two seasons if not more. The only thing these players will be playing for is to impress for the portal.




Yea, we're inevitably ******...
 

[email protected]

Sophomore
Oct 17, 2023
183
119
43



Yea, we're inevitably ******...
why? the question you need to ask is why Trautwine is still the OL coach?
 

m.knox

All-Conference
Aug 20, 2003
1,646
1,815
113
Center recruiting has been awful under Franklin. I swear it leads to guys playing out of position which forces that one guy who should be a backup into a starting spot.

I read an article years ago about the PSU OL woes. The article cited exactly what you noted. Guys playing out of their natural position. Turning tackles into guards, right tackles into left tackles.... The criticism was not keeping them in their "natural" positions.

I'm sure some can adapt to playing multiple spots on OL and some have a more difficult time adjusting.

Suffice to say, it was another Franklinism. "Gotta have flexibility...."
 

PSU Soupy 615

Sophomore
Aug 3, 2008
79
141
33
The OL as a team seemed to work on getting fit and losing weight, but they do not seem to get much of a push at the point of the attack. The other issue is that none of the new guys got much time this year........
 

Bvillebaron

All-Conference
Feb 4, 2004
2,608
2,655
113
The 2027 class is of little worry, there will be plenty of time to recruit them after the new coach is hired. It's 2026 that is the concern because we may not hire a coach until quite late in the recruiting cycle, which would put a ton of emphasis on recruiting via the portal. Surely Kraft is aware of this and has had conversations with boosters to start securing big time NIL money if we need to fill one class largely from the portal.
That’s great but the transfer portal window is January 2-16 and the National Championship game is January 19th. Anyone else see a potential issue here? We shall see if Kraft has “got this”.
 

BiochemPSU

All-Conference
Jun 13, 2016
1,115
1,565
113
I read an article years ago about the PSU OL woes. The article cited exactly what you noted. Guys playing out of their natural position. Turning tackles into guards, right tackles into left tackles.... The criticism was not keeping them in their "natural" positions.

I'm sure some can adapt to playing multiple spots on OL and some have a more difficult time adjusting.

Suffice to say, it was another Franklinism. "Gotta have flexibility...."
I love O-line talk. Just things I have noticed over the years:

I've watched OSU recruit centers, some right out of our back yard, for years. They stay at center their whole time at OSU. PSU never seems to do that. We seem to recruit the player, not the position.

Michigan portals in centers who start for them and dominate. PSU doesn't seem to be able to do that. My guess is that they resisted doing it and would not automatically "plug in" the portal guy because it would upset the recruited guys who had put the time in and the chemistry they thought they were building.

It's VERY hard to flip from right/left side to left/right side of the line and it's VERY difficult to go from playing inside to playing outside (guard to tackle).

The combination of speed, strength, intelligence, and love of violence that you need to excel is crazy rare. And you need five of the those guys. (probably need 8 total because someone is going to get injured).

I look at the records of Wisconsin and Iowa (generational linemen factories) and think "did they just stop developing linemen, look at their record?" Nope. They have zero threats at any of the skill positions. 5 NFL hall of famers couldn't win you a game with 6 skill position players taken from the stands. The line is just a "gear check". Meaning it's the minimal requirement that you need to meet if you want to advance. I think that's why Warren mattered so much last year. He could help block and be a pass catching threat. He may have actually bailed our o-line out last year more than we realized. Take him away and you have nothing at WR and a no-homerun threat at RB and you get what you get this year.
 
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bdgan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
3,652
3,690
113
When does Cooper Cousins emerge as an elite player or even as a quality starter? Is he dinged up, not being used correctly, or just another mediocre player who was over-rated and didn't develop?
Same with Birchmeier & Williams. Are we just favoring seniors?
 
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slwlion01

Senior
Jul 24, 2023
363
504
93
The Offensive line is offensive to say the least. This line is the product of pass first run second football. Under Franklin , POWER football was ignored. They simply were not coached to RUN BLOCK. I have been screaming about it 10 years.
Absolutely correct. But don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I've been saying the same thing as well. lol
 

BCS PSU

Senior
Jun 2, 2001
491
940
93
They haven't been real good at pass blocking either.
What I don't understand is that this line really came on strongly at the end of last season and only lost one player from the starting rotation; they were really good in the Big 10 Championship Game and playoffs. However, with five returning starters, this line played terribly and confused from from the very first game this season. What happened to them, as they shouldn't be this ineffective?
 

m.knox

All-Conference
Aug 20, 2003
1,646
1,815
113
What I don't understand is that this line really came on strongly at the end of last season and only lost one player from the starting rotation; they were really good in the Big 10 Championship Game and playoffs. However, with five returning starters, this line played terribly and confused from from the very first game this season. What happened to them, as they shouldn't be this ineffective?

They believed the hype. Best OL in recent history. No need to go out fired up. All they needed to do is show up and great things will happen.

I read the article citing Campbell's take on why the D isn't performing. He said all 11 needed to play together. Once in a while you can get away with 10, but the other team is going to figure it out. I bet it is the same here which begs the question of where is the vocal leadership. If someone isn't performing their assignment, who is getting in their face and letting them know?
 

PSUForever

All-Conference
Feb 17, 2007
1,034
1,098
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I used to try to defend Trautwein in the past as in my view he was a step up from our previous oline coach but this year especially the oline entirely have taken a massive step backwards. That is on him totally. As you said he has the top recruits to develop and has flopped. Last years online I believe overrated as well only at the end of the year did they play decent
This is why Key may be the key (pun intended). He is an OLine guy who coached the OLine for Saban during some of their dynasty years ('16-'18). A lot of people want a QB guru type and that is really important but also having a guy who can coach up an OLine and restore us as a power team at the line of scrimmage is critically important.
 
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Bwifan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
2,535
4,434
113
This is why Key may be the key (pun intended). He is an OLine guy who coached the OLine for Saban during some of their dynasty years ('16-'18). A lot of people want a QB guru type and that is really important but also having a guy who can coach up an OLine and restore us as a power team at the line of scrimmage is critically important.
I agree totally. I am fine with Key if they hire him. We need new blood and someone who brings some energy to the program. I think JF was just tired and ready for a change. Plus he had made some bad coaching hires and tended to play favorites among players. It was time for a change and this program needs a breath of fresh air.
 

PSUForever

All-Conference
Feb 17, 2007
1,034
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That’s great but the transfer portal window is January 2-16 and the National Championship game is January 19th. Anyone else see a potential issue here? We shall see if Kraft has “got this”.
I think it is open for 2 weeks for a team with a newly hired coach but not sure that would matter much if the new coach is not hired until late Jan.

I think the new coach will be hired at the latest around Jan 10th after the quarters finish then serious negotiations happen. I don't think our coach comes from a team in the semis.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,469
2,338
113
That’s great but the transfer portal window is January 2-16 and the National Championship game is January 19th. Anyone else see a potential issue here? We shall see if Kraft has “got this”.
Yes that is the concern with names like Elko and Deboer possibly in the mix. One one hand I'd argue it's worth sacrificing one class and season if you are hiring someone you think is a home run for the long haul and you have to wait until the portal is closed to do it. On the other hand it's debatable if any possible hire is likely to be a home run, so it may not be worth the risk to wait and you just hire someone else to avoid completely tanking 2026. There are risks either way.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,469
2,338
113
What I don't understand is that this line really came on strongly at the end of last season and only lost one player from the starting rotation; they were really good in the Big 10 Championship Game and playoffs. However, with five returning starters, this line played terribly and confused from from the very first game this season. What happened to them, as they shouldn't be this ineffective?
That is one of the biggest unanswered questions about this season. I haven't seen or heard any explanations for the o line regression. We can blame poor passing game on AK and the transfer receivers, poor defense on Knowles, losing Carter, and losing Rojas. But the o line regression is still a mystery.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,469
2,338
113
I think it is open for 2 weeks for a team with a newly hired coach but not sure that would matter much if the new coach is not hired until late Jan.

I think the new coach will be hired at the latest around Jan 10th after the quarters finish then serious negotiations happen. I don't think our coach comes from a team in the semis.
Pretty sure that means it opens for PSU players to leave, in the event they don't like the coaching hire. But I don't think it means we can pull any inbound transfers and the portal would be closed for every other team.