Simeon Appeal

[Hinterland]

Well, well, it appears as if the IHSA is going to hear an appeal by Chicago Simeon high school tomorrow regarding the 8-game and required-number-of-practices rules. Edgy's take on this (see his post in the Sticky Threads section) is an interest in finding out why the 8-game rule is in place. Edgy also mentioned that IHSA's position could be what they have said in the past, namely "IHSA is a volunteer organisation and when you join you agree to our rules and bylaws". Well, that is what they better tell Simeon. They had no problem telling that to the non-boundaried schools in the past regarding the multiplier and the Success Punishment Adjustment, and apparently other schools and programs (of any stripe) have been told the same thing in the past. It should/must NOT be the IHSA's job to resolve a situation which MUST be resolved by the CTU and the City of Chicago.

All schools (whether or not they have football programs) need to keep an eye on what happens here and I'm sure within the next week. If the IHSA does not decide to enforce their own rules and bylaws, then why would schools still belong. Hard to fathom how you could have any faith in it. It would cease to be a legitimate organization and be deserving of no one's respect and certainly no one's obedience.

 

[ignazio]

Interesting that football has practice rules regarding contact and frequency, etc. which will ultimately prevent Simeon, et al from competing, but not many (that I am aware) for the other sports affected (XC, soccer).

 

[Jrc1282]

In my opinion Cps schools will still be on strike anyway when the playoffs start so there wasting there time anyway. If it goes through It will just be a case of a school that can play not getting in to play and Simeons name being on the bracket and some team getting a bye

 

[mchsalumni]

In my opinion Cps schools will still be on strike anyway when the playoffs start so there wasting there time anyway. If it goes through It will just be a case of a school that can play not getting in to play and Simeons name being on the bracket and some team getting a bye

That's going to happen either way. I say scrap the 8 game rule and make it one day of practice.

 

[Hinterland]

That's going to happen either way. I say scrap the 8 game rule and make it one day of practice.

Can the IHSA simply scrap rules at their leisure? I may be mistaken, but haven't past rule and bylaw changes been made after a committee is formed and the proposed changes discussed and then put before the member schools for voting? Just asking. But my original comment stands: why have rules if your not going to abide by them, or why enforce rules and not hear appeals for some, while hearing an appeal to a rule for others (this Friday, for example). We get enough of this uneven application of the rules in our justice system and politics, we don't need it from an organization which is supposedly for "fair play" - COUGH, COUGH!!!

 

[IgorStL]

That's going to happen either way. I say scrap the 8 game rule and make it one day of practice.

That's fine and all, but do it next year. The rules regarding the schedule & minimum practices are crystal clear, and not open to interpretation. It's not the IHSA's fault that CTU increases their list of demands as the strike continues. If the make the three-day practice rule a one-day rule for this year, and a kid gets seriously hurt, who do you think they are going to sue?

 

[Hinterland]

That's fine and all, but do it next year. The rules regarding the schedule & minimum practices are crystal clear, and not open to interpretation. It's not the IHSA's fault that CTU increases their list of demands as the strike continues. If the make the three-day practice rule a one-day rule for this year, and a kid gets seriously hurt, who do you think they are going to sue?

Great point about the rules being crystal clear, and the IHSA should keep that in mind when dealing with the schools. And NO WAY should the IHSA bail out the CTU (or the City for that matter). They are the parties who have to resolve their issues and the IHSA should keep a million miles away from them. They are not an organization meant to be an arbitrator in school board/city/teachers union disputes. Frankly, I'm not sure they would be good at it if they tried. They could very well find themselves in situations which are best avoided. Right now, they are a neutral party and should have no exposure to criticism from either side if they follow their rules and bylaws formally set in place. If they take an action which is viewed by either party as favoring one over the other, then they would for sure find themselves in a sticky mess which could have very easily been avoided. Why they would ever want to be seen as involved in this mess is beyond me!

 

[caravan8]

Last time the courts ruled against the ihsa when a team was appealing being excluded from the post season tournaments was in ‘95 when MC wrestling won their case. The ihsa then cancelled the team wrestling tournament I believe. Hopefully it doesn’t get to that.

 

[IgorStL]

Great point about the rules being crystal clear, and the IHSA should keep that in mind when dealing with the schools. And NO WAY should the IHSA bail out the CTU (or the City for that matter). They are the parties who have to resolve their issues and the IHSA should keep a million miles away from them. They are not an organization meant to be an arbitrator in school board/city/teachers union disputes. Frankly, I'm not sure they would be good at it if they tried. They could very well find themselves in situations which are best avoided. Right now, they are a neutral party and should have no exposure to criticism from either side if they follow their rules and bylaws formally set in place. If they take an action which is viewed by either party as favoring one over the other, then they would for sure find themselves in a sticky mess which could have very easily been avoided. Why they would ever want to be seen as involved in this mess is beyond me!

All this being said, it REALLY sucks for Simeon. The "adults" in the building have shown that they do not care about the sacrifices the players make.

 

[caravan8]

Could an argument be made that even with a forfeit this weekend, Simeon would stand at 6-2 and thus have the required 8 games? If the strike were to end Monday they could be in the playoffs. Does the rule state that you must participate in 8 games or just have 8 games on the schedule? If it is participate in 8 games, why wouldn’t players who are injured or suspended for multiple games then be ineligible for the playoffs? Just a thought.

 

[Curtain 25]

Could an argument be made that even with a forfeit this weekend, Simeon would stand at 6-2 and thus have the required 8 games? If the strike were to end Monday they could be in the playoffs. Does the rule state that you must participate in 8 games or just have 8 games on the schedule? If it is participate in 8 games, why wouldn’t players who are injured or suspended for multiple games then be ineligible for the playoffs? Just a thought.

 

[Curtain 25]

I kinda dig that logic...little bit of lawyer speak...

 

[superac777]

Too bad for CPS yes but sad in which teams won’t be able to replace them in the playoffs like in 87

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Simeon is approved for the playoffs and will be seeded Saturday.

 

[Nape]

Simeon is approved for the playoffs and will be seeded Saturday.

Fantastic news!! Thanks LCN!

 

[RD_Watcher]

Simeon is approved for the playoffs and will be seeded Saturday.

And Phoenix according to Soucie.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

As I said would happen, waive 8 game rule (for goodwill) but keep practice rule so if I were betting man I’d say strike not over by Tuesday. But who knows.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

As I said would happen, waive 8 game rule (for goodwill) but keep practice rule so if I were betting man I’d say strike not over by Tuesday. But who knows.

My first inclination was maybe this pressures teachers to end strike since they can no longer blame IHSA and fear being the bad guys but they will just blame the mayor....

 

[jwarigaku]

Good will sucks. Screwing kids here and me on my balance sheet!

As I said would happen, waive 8 game rule (for goodwill) but keep practice rule so if I were betting man I’d say strike not over by Tuesday. But who knows.

 

[Jrc1282]

Yeah!!!!!!! More 1st round byes in the playoffs
And 2 teams just got screwed big time just to watch byes happen in there place

 

[Hinterland]

So, at least we know rules don't necessarily have to be followed when it comes to the IHSA. Explain again why the IHSA has rules.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Does anyone know if a team forfeits 2 games and play 7 if they are ineligible or if forfeits count as games.

Curious because I’m wondering if 2 forfeits does make a team ineligible based on the 8 game rule if it was instituted to help make sure CPS teams doesn’t just forfeit 2 non-conference games they schedule against say Montini and Nazareth and then play their conference games and make the playoffs after scheduling games they never really intended to play? This would help insure those who schedule CPS teams as non-cons don’t get screwed out of games.

Of course if forfeits count as games played then that theory is out the window.

 

[ClownBaby]

Simeon is approved for the playoffs and will be seeded Saturday.

Very disappointing, what’s the point of having rules when they are arbitrarily enforced? Would the IHSA done the same thing for any other team facing the same situation, I doubt it.

 

[Hinterland]

Does anyone know if a team forfeits 2 games and play 7 if they are ineligible or if forfeits count as games.

Curious because I’m wondering if 2 forfeits does make a team ineligible based on the 8 game rule if it was instituted to help make sure CPS teams doesn’t just forfeit 2 non-conference games they schedule against say Montini and Nazareth and then play their conference games and make the playoffs after scheduling games they never really intended to play? This would help insure those who schedule CPS teams as non-cons don’t get screwed out of games.

Of course if forfeits count as games played then that theory is out the window.

No offence meant here, because your question would be understandable if we weren't dealing with the IHSA. Just because this or that team happens to not qualify on paper according to the rules as now written, we have just found out rules can be waived. Not necessarily fair but, after all, we're talking about the IHSA here.

 

[ClownBaby]

Question for the board, when the last team out of the playoffs sues on next Monday since they followed the rules that got waived so the IHSA could place a team in who didn't follow the rules whose side will you take?

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

No offence meant here, because your question would be understandable if we weren't dealing with the IHSA. Just because this or that team happens to not qualify on paper according to the rules as now written, we have just found out rules can be waived. Not necessarily fair but, after all, we're talking about the IHSA here.

I was just curious about the initial justification for the 8 game rule.

 

[Jrc1282]

Good now we know that the IHSA will not follow its own by laws, so don’t bracket any cps team if the strike is not over by noon tomorrow. I’ve lost all hope for the ihsa good thing I’ve only got one year left and you all can have this mess of a state series and everything that goes with it

 

[superac777]

Question for the board, when the last team out of the playoffs sues on next Monday since they followed the rules that got waived so the IHSA could place a team in who didn't follow the rules whose side will you take?

Not any CPS team

 

[superac777]

Does anyone know if a team forfeits 2 games and play 7 if they are ineligible or if forfeits count as games.

Curious because I’m wondering if 2 forfeits does make a team ineligible based on the 8 game rule if it was instituted to help make sure CPS teams doesn’t just forfeit 2 non-conference games they schedule against say Montini and Nazareth and then play their conference games and make the playoffs after scheduling games they never really intended to play? This would help insure those who schedule CPS teams as non-cons don’t get screwed out of games.

Of course if forfeits count as games played then that theory is out the window.

They used to be eligible.1982 ESL forfeited first 2 games of the year

 

[Hinterland]

Good now we know that the IHSA will not follow its own by laws, so don’t bracket any cps team if the strike is not over by noon tomorrow. I’ve lost all hope for the ihsa good thing I’ve only got one year left and you all can have this mess of a state and everything that goes with it

Nice to know there are some posters on this site that do realize that the IHSA, and some posters on here, apparently, do not quite understand what the concept of following the rules means. By the way, calling the state a mess is an insult to all true messes everywhere. Anyway, glad you're "escaping" the insanity!!