Similarities UK's 2016/UK 2007 team....all offense and just enough defense?
- Thread starter Bryo72
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Not yet. We don't have the equivalent of Woodson, Tamme, Lyons, Johnson, Burton....or at least none have proven to be equal.
In 2007 we averaged 36.5 points/ game, the most in the last 12 years, and gave up 29.8 points/ game. The strength of schedule was 17th too... If we average those points we definitely go bowling. Our projected SOS is 51 by fbschedules.com and 37 by espn.
We have the equivalent of every single one of those...minus Woodson.
Conrad, Johnson, Baker, Walker, Badet and Richardson are of equal talent compared to who you listed. Add in Boom and Kemp and you have more talent at the skill positions than the 2007 team. Barker will be the key as to how far this team goes. If we can put up points and make the other team try and throw to score with us then we will succeed because our strength lies in our secondary. If we don't capitalize on scoring and teams pound us to death on the ground then we will be in trouble.
I agree with you. And not to look at next year before this season starts, but we only lose two starters on D (McClain and Miggins), and 1 starter on O (Toth), unless Boom has an awesome year and leaves a year early.This year's reminds me of that team...fire away!))
Next year we could be pretty damn good.
Proof is in the pudding, but I should hope you are correctThis year's reminds me of that team...fire away!
I feel like this year our offense will average 33-35 points per game, and the defense will surrender 23-24 points per game. People are really overblowing defensive issues. Stoops himself said it's absolutely better than it was last year. I feel like the offense is getting it now, has a lot of depth, and some insane talent across the board that could play well enough to score effectively against every team in the country. One things is certain though, we're going to be an offense powered football team.
I get what your saying and like your enthusiasm, but ram is right, we don't have the "proven" talent at those positions. Johnson has shown flashes as well as Badet. Kemp and Boom are about the only two in the skill positions that are "proven". I am hoping Barker turn out to be the real deal, but we won't know for sure until 3-4 weeks into the season.
The possibility is definitely there for this team to resemble that team in a lot of way, but they have to prove it first.
That team had better skill players, better coaching, better special teams play and a better o-line. Other than that, sure I see the resemblance.
The thing that made 2007 such a good team was how opportunistic the defense was. Wasn't the turnover margin well in our favor that year? Seemed like we were picking off passes and causing/recovering fumbles every week.
Explain how the skill players were better then? Very vague response or you really have no clue what you're talking about.
They were better then because they were proven. We have a ton of potential at the skill positions, but very little PROVEN.
Why is this so hard for people to understand???
Why is this so hard for people to understand???
Woodson, Tamme, S. Johnson, Burton, Little, Lyons all were"proven" players on that team and we are still talking "potential" with this bunch...if thus bunch can turn out to be as good them tben watchout, but the only one I've seen so far is Conrad
The key is comparing the 2007 team PRE-SEASON to this year's team.
How proven were the 2007 players at that point?
Offensively, we have a ton of potential. will all the guys pan out? Nope. But, there are so many guys with potential, many will.
Gran/Hinshaw will make a huge difference - I'm certain of that.
Boils down to Barker and our OTs. If they are both average, our O could be really good.
How proven were the 2007 players at that point?
Offensively, we have a ton of potential. will all the guys pan out? Nope. But, there are so many guys with potential, many will.
Gran/Hinshaw will make a huge difference - I'm certain of that.
Boils down to Barker and our OTs. If they are both average, our O could be really good.
From that standpoint absolutely..... This group has the potential to maybe be better ...sheer numbers of talented current skill players is key. We've never had the numbers of players that can step in with no drop off. I think that will be the difference.
I'll be surprised if that's not the case.
Woodson was a great college QB and set SEC records for passes without an interception and completions without an interception. He took care of the ball better than any QB I can recall playing here. That is what really makes this team stand out. We have a larger and deeper group of skill players this year but many are still unproven including the QB. Similarly the defense has more overall depth, but needs to prove they are a reliable stop unit.
I can't think of another year where we had so much potential, yet so many unanswered questions. By mid season we should know if we are competing for the SEC East or figuring out a way to get bowl eligible by the end of November.
I can't think of another year where we had so much potential, yet so many unanswered questions. By mid season we should know if we are competing for the SEC East or figuring out a way to get bowl eligible by the end of November.
That 2007 defense that was just good enough. Had Pryor,Jenkins, Peters, Lumpkin, Jarmon, Lindley, Kelley and Woodyard on defense.
The 2007 team was built from a pretty darn good 2006 team (8-5, #35 in Total Offense, #46 in Scoring); not sure that is the same situation this year. But you gotta start somewhere and that 2006 team came off a 3-8 record in 2005. In that sense, the comparison better fits the 2006 team. JMO
Peace
Peace
I have said all along that we will know what this team is made of after Week 2.
I don't see it
1. Woodson was far and away playing at a higher level going into 2007 than what we can realistically imagine for Barker. Had 31 TD/7 Ints in his Jr year and then had another crazy Sr year to top it off.
2. Gary Williams and Justin Jeffies are way better offensive tackles than Mosier/Meadows...and you need really strong protection on the edges to throw the ball around as much as we did.
3. I can buy WR/TE core having similar talent but I'd put them a notch below until I can see it from Richardson. Baker is to me a Larod King moreso than Stevie Johnson.
4. I'm totally high on Boom/JoJo...I thnk they are outstanding RB duo.
On the defensive side, we'll have to see. That was the unit that sort of underperformed IMO in 2007 with the number of NFL guys they produced (Steve Brown's vanilla schemes didn't help out much). But the talent on UK's front 7 is debatable for this year's squad.
1. Woodson was far and away playing at a higher level going into 2007 than what we can realistically imagine for Barker. Had 31 TD/7 Ints in his Jr year and then had another crazy Sr year to top it off.
2. Gary Williams and Justin Jeffies are way better offensive tackles than Mosier/Meadows...and you need really strong protection on the edges to throw the ball around as much as we did.
3. I can buy WR/TE core having similar talent but I'd put them a notch below until I can see it from Richardson. Baker is to me a Larod King moreso than Stevie Johnson.
4. I'm totally high on Boom/JoJo...I thnk they are outstanding RB duo.
On the defensive side, we'll have to see. That was the unit that sort of underperformed IMO in 2007 with the number of NFL guys they produced (Steve Brown's vanilla schemes didn't help out much). But the talent on UK's front 7 is debatable for this year's squad.
Pretty much agree with this except for #4. I'll take Little over Williams and/or Kemp any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Otherwise, pretty accurate.
New Mexico isn't going to stand a chance week 3 unless we lose to USM and UF and our confidence is shattered. Beat UF in Week 2 and we have a strong shot of being 4-0 going into Bama where if we can keep it respectable and keep our confidence then we have 3 winnable games home against Vandy and Miss St and on the road at Mizzo. Could you imagine sitting at 7-1 or 6-2 after that stretch? Pipe dream I know, but hey....it's preseason.
I think it is better to look at 2015 somewhat like 2005. Ten years ago Woodson and UK struggled to move the ball through the air. UK threw the ball for just over 1,600 yards. Our leading receiver was actually Little, and after him no one had over 300 yards receiving. However, we ran the ball very well with Little having over 1,000 yards. This year we had Boom run for just under 1000 while we also had Kemp and Horton adding another 900.
Like in 2006, many of these guys are turning into juniors. Burton in 2005 was injured for part of the year and had he not been injured he would have had somewhere around just under 800 yards receiving (if he kept his average). Similarly, Johnson had just under 700 last year. Conrad had about half the production of Tamme when Tamme was a sophomore, but we expect Conrad to go up a good deal this year. Lyons was injured in 2005 and redshirted and Stevie wasn't all the team. Still, these guys turned into juniors and sophomores in 2006 and when that happened there was a huge boost in production. Woodson more than doubled his passing yards from 2005 to 2006, and our running game actually improved a good deal despite the fact that Little only played in 9 games. I think that this year could be a similar jump for a lot of these players, but the key is with Barker. If Barker can show the poise needed then everyone's numbers will increase. '
The keys are all there to be a similar jump that we got in 2006. The talent is there and the ability is there. These guys just need to bring it all together like they did in 2006. Few of us in 2005 could have predicted the success we were going to have in '06 & '07. We knew we had talent, but it had to be put together and they hadn't shown that ability up to that point. The question is... will 2016's team come together? 2005 also had a new OC, Joker Phillips. We have a new OC in 2016, but he is exponentially more experienced than Joker was when he took over the role in 2005. Anyway, a lot of question marks, but there could be some similarities from 10 years ago.
Like in 2006, many of these guys are turning into juniors. Burton in 2005 was injured for part of the year and had he not been injured he would have had somewhere around just under 800 yards receiving (if he kept his average). Similarly, Johnson had just under 700 last year. Conrad had about half the production of Tamme when Tamme was a sophomore, but we expect Conrad to go up a good deal this year. Lyons was injured in 2005 and redshirted and Stevie wasn't all the team. Still, these guys turned into juniors and sophomores in 2006 and when that happened there was a huge boost in production. Woodson more than doubled his passing yards from 2005 to 2006, and our running game actually improved a good deal despite the fact that Little only played in 9 games. I think that this year could be a similar jump for a lot of these players, but the key is with Barker. If Barker can show the poise needed then everyone's numbers will increase. '
The keys are all there to be a similar jump that we got in 2006. The talent is there and the ability is there. These guys just need to bring it all together like they did in 2006. Few of us in 2005 could have predicted the success we were going to have in '06 & '07. We knew we had talent, but it had to be put together and they hadn't shown that ability up to that point. The question is... will 2016's team come together? 2005 also had a new OC, Joker Phillips. We have a new OC in 2016, but he is exponentially more experienced than Joker was when he took over the role in 2005. Anyway, a lot of question marks, but there could be some similarities from 10 years ago.
I completely agree that the 2016 team looks similar in terms of potential to that 2006 team. Additionally, as mentioned below:
Woodson was a big reason the 2006 & 2007 teams became so good, but it more due to his TD/INT ratio than in the TO margin area. Look at those years compared to the last 2 seasons:
2006
- INTs Thrown / TDs thrown = 7 / 31
- Fumbles lost = 10
- INTs by UK = 14
- Fumbles recovered by UK = 18
- TO differential = +7
2007 -
- INTs Thrown / TDs thrown = 12 / 41
- Fumbles lost = 16
- INTs by UK = 17 in 528 attempts
- Fumbles recovered by UK = 10
- TO differential = -1
2014
- INTs Thrown / TDs thrown = 11 / 14
- Fumbles lost = 4
- INTs by UK = 15
- Fumbles recovered by UK = 8
- TO differential = +8
2015
- INTs Thrown / TDs thrown = 10 / 16
- Fumbles lost = 6
- INTs by UK = 11
- Fumbles recovered by UK = 9
- TO differential = -2
I don't expect Barker to throw 30+ TDs, but if he can keep his TD/INT ratio in good shape (~25 TDs, < 10 INTs doesn't seem unreasonable), this team should still attain a season like 2006. If the pieces come together this fall, 2017 may shape up to be similar to 2007.
I will agree and backtrack some...2006 against GA at home and win...was 2007 team turning point
When we talk about potential the measurements are all physical. After that it's all between the ears. If the desire and guts aren't there then potential is worthless.
Production of 2006 Team:
Woodson - 3515 passing yards, 31 TD's 7 INT (proven)
Burton - 1036 receiving yards, 12 TD's (proven)
Lyons - 822 receiving yards, 9 TD's (Proven)
Little - (injured part of year) 673 yards rushing yards, 5 TD's (2005 1045 rushing yards, 9 TD's) (Proven)
Tamme - 386 receiving yards, 2 TD's (Proven)
Johnson - (Juco - first year) 159 yards, 1 TD (not proven)
Plus there was Tony Dixon, Fonzie Smith, and the Terminator, John Conner.
I think the biggest ? is obviously at quarterback. I don't recall as many drops from this aforementioned group of receivers as we've seen with the 2016 returning receivers. I think our talent is on par - but so far it's based on potential and not results. I don't think it's obvious that the 2007 team's skill players were better, but they definitely proved a lot in that 2006 season.
It could be that the best comparison for this team is the 2006 team. Plenty of talent ready to take a big step forward.
By the time 2006 rolled around, Andre Woodson had plenty of game experience. Drew Barker has yet to start an SEC game.
I see what OP is saying. But honestly, I think next year the resemblance will be better. This team is VERY young. It actually has more talent across the board. Especially Oline. But, they are much younger. Next year will be the year that UK has Top 3 in the SEC East ability.
Going to be interesting talking about the Oline after the first two or three games. I do agree about next year. Seems like it's always "next year".
This is my main concern. Otherwise, our skill positions are reasonably comparable (based on potential, to some degree) and our line should be close to the same, talent wise.
Think you are being a bit too generous in your evaluation of this year's receivers and backs vs the group from 2007.
By the time 2007 rolled around all of the skill players had proven themselves on the field. The 2007 skill players had "demonstrated performance" (as Coach Cal uses the term) on the field, while the current group has "potential".
While I like this year's group of skill players, they have a lot to prove in order to be compared favorably with the 2007 group. Way too many drops and failing to complete assignments, e.g., backs picking up the blitz, receivers giving up on patterns, consistent winning performance on each play, etc., by several of the players you mentioned compared to the 2007 group.
Barker and the offensive line both must perform, but the skill players need to live up to their reps and improve their performance significantly compared to the past two years.
Of the players you mentioned only Conrad and Walker seem to be sure handed receivers, but last year they were not targeted very often. With the new OC hopefully they will be targeted more often, and with the new WR coach the WRs hopefully will reduce their drops, especially on crucial 3rd down plays, and will play with consistent effort on every down.
