You are down with being sub-.500 in SEC play, mostly non-competitive with Clemson and never going to Omaha?
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So, just to clarify for the smug Kingston apologists
- Thread starter 18IsTheMan
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Impossible to defend where our program is, BUT, we could win either of the regionals in which we are likely to appear. No, I'm not predicting such.
Kingston and Tanner should have fired been fired yesterday. Technically, 3 or 4 years ago for Tanner.
I definitely don't fall in the category you speak of. I've accepted it doesn't matter what I feel, it's out of my control to do the AD job. As I grow older, this is easier to accept.
I will say as mentioned by others, if he gets to a SR, he is probably safe another year. Most programs would follow this also.
I don't think most major schools that care about baseball would give Kingston an 8th year at the helm, what has he possibly done in 7 years to deserve another year? That said, Tanner needs to go 1st, he has made two failed hirings in a row in baseball, who is confident he can name a good coach? Not Me! Tanner reminds me of a lifetime politician, letting him stay and name a new coach is just giving him another 4-5 years to ignore baseball, same as all other sports, and get him to retirement, Tanner is the elephant in the room.
When the Gamecocks were winning and going to Omaha, our facilities were better than most teams. They're still nice, but a lot of other schools have upgraded. Also, the transfer portal has changed the game tremendously. Schools that have recently won CWS are struggling as well - Florida, Vanderbilt, Mississippi, and Mississippi State. It always comes down to the talent you're able to attract. I think Kingston has done okay with the talent he has - needs to hit the recruiting hard if he stays. I don't support a change this year because I'm not aware of a proven D1 winner that is available and would do better. All SEC schools are just a couple of stud pitchers away from being great. Not an apologist, but you have to entice a competent replacement if you make a change.
What's even more baffling and concerning is that Tanner is ok with it.
You would think the man who built it would be appalled by what the program has become.
Here is the thing, Kingston is never going to take us back to our glory days.
I am more convinced than ever that winning this regional can not be considered enough justification in keeping Kingston. I mean really, winning a weekend tournament against James Madison, NCSt and Bryant is enough to keep him? Surely that cant be the deciding factor... right?
Tanner's current contract runs through July 31, 2026. He was offered a 4 year extension.....only accepted a 2 year. Simply wanted to get his 30 years in and have a chance to finish the improvements to W-B and upgrades to Founder's Park. Chance Miller is his likely replacement.
Who says he's okay with it? Prior to the SR last year, Tanner was going to fire Kinston, but the Caslen/Frank Martin fiasco prevented that. Can't fire a coach that make a SR run.
Fire a coach that makes back-to-back SRs......and watch your potential pool of replacements dwindle fast.
Anyone who would back out of coming here because our bar is too high shouldnt have been considered to begin with. I am not opposed to naming Lee interium for as long as it takes
Seriously? Coaches have self-interest....and they aren't going to consider a program that has a higher standard than everyone else....unless that program is willing to break the bank with a massive buyout.
Yes seriously. A regional of this strength should not be considered good enough to overlook a losing record in conference... his third in six years with the other three barely over .500. And to add insult to injury his best record in conference was his first... .567. He has had his chances. That said, he proves he can get us from a .500 program stuck in a loop under his leadership to Omaha bound now, give him a two year extension.
Thing is the teams you mentioned have had a down turn the year after the nc, it’s just not that easy to stay on top with the portal nowdays! Especially in this conference! Go check the rpi and sos and get back with me! I’m with sweetwater though, the decision is out my hands!
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Without a doubt....if he makes a SR he will be going nowhere unless he chooses to. And if he makes a run to Omaha....plan on a 4-year extension.
To be clear, me saying he needs to be gone if he doesn't make it out of a Super doesn't mean I believe he will be fired... just that imo he should. I have no confidence Tanner would make such a move and the reason I mentioned Lee is it would not hurt my feelings to see him take over until Ray retires IF Ray retires in the next two years.
Lee? No way. He destroyed a program that Leggett built....Clemson fans were begging for Leggett back.
Well, I remember when Mississippi State was considered one of the top 2 or 3 jobs in SEC baseball. Yes, the bar is high and has been high at most SEC schools. The bar is going to get much tougher with UTX, and OU coming in. Any coach wanting to make a name for himself would be stupid not to consider us. We have National Championships in baseball along with great facilities.
What I would like to avoid is RT making our next baseball hire. That doesn't mean I want to keep Kingston until Ray retires though. I'm looking at the best case scenario. IMO Lee > Kingston. I know it would be a longshot but I honestly believe Lee would take a two year deal to get back in HC if there was an opportunity extend that if he did well. If he didnt do well, the next AD makes a hire. Easy peasy. Lol
Consistently making the SRs is a high standard....one that I don't have a problem with.
Good friend of mine (who incidently grew up a Bama fan) from A ball played on some of those Mississippi State teams. Got drafted by the Twins and then got traded to the Oriole organization in AA ball.
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When I was much younger before we were in the SEC, I pulled for MSU baseball!!!
We won 2 national championships, appeared in the national title game/series 6 times(could be slightly off on that number) and been to the College World Series numerous times(none of which has happened since 2012) So we're a Blueblood in college baseball by that definition. Since 2012 we've been passed by Just about every program in the SEC except LSU who is the only program in the SEC I consider to have more of a history in baseball than we do. I remember they did not hesitate to let Smokey Laval go who was getting to the CWS but was not bringing any championships home. For us College Baseball and now Women's Basketball are two sports where no kind of mediocrity are to be tolerated! There is no excuse for a 12 year CWS drought! We're talking as if Super Regionals are acceptable, for a program like ours, that should be the floor in the worst of seasons! We should be getting to the CWS every 3 years at least, every senior class of ours should have played for the national title at least once, and we should at least once a decade put it all together and win it all. We need a coach that can get us to Omaha and win it all, not someone who merely makes the tournament with an occasional Super Regional. Championships in your best years and CWS appearances in your average years is what being a Blueblood in baseball is all about. That is what our standard is. If Ray Tanner(who should understand this better than anyone) is rationalizing in any way based off of SR appearances that Kingston is getting the job done than he is cheating the program and standard he helped create. Eric Hyman and/or Mike McGee would've fired Mark Kingston long ago!
When I look at how MSU, Vandy, Tenn, UK, Arky and typically UF has seemingly passed us in this decade and with Oklahoma and Texas seemingly on the rise, the one common denominator in the rise of those programs seems to be coaching. The question is and has been for us- what are we going to do about it?
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So, yes, you are ok with having losing SEC records and being overall a mediocre program, so long as we get lucky in the postseason every now and again and make the supers.
Let's say we forced a Game 7 in the regionals and lose 3-2 in 10 innings. Would that be grounds for letting Kingston go?
One of the big things I like to ask myself is are we making these guys better ball players. To me that's like job priority number one and winning is what you get as a result of that if you do it well. So are we making these guys better? I got to say no. Would that be ok if we were winning? I still gotta say no but in the real world tolerable I guess. Is it acceptable if you are a .500 or less type team? Absolutely not. That is where we are imo, unacceptable results.
Player development is non-existent under Kingston.
Baseball teams can win with a good starting pitching rotation, a good middle and short reliever and a solid defense backing them up.
Kingston has done a poor job of evaluating talent and developing these core elements'.
There is no doubt we have attracted some very good individual talent who want to play for a premier program, but we are at risk of losing that recruiting card if Kingston stays.
There are just so few things we're actually good at, it really shocks how me how some of fans are 100% ok with us just being mediocre in a sport we once dominated.
Another reason Kingston needs to go, maybe there's something better out there maybe there ain't. But we know what we've had since 2012 with Holbrook and Kingston and it just hasn't cut the mustard. We just keep going thru coaches if we have to until we find the right guy. Our Championship level success is recent enough I believe that there are coaches out there who think "this program was once great and can be so again."
But we gotta do something now or risk falling into irrelevancy.
I wouldn't be shocked if he chose to move on.
No head coach would or should take a two year deal. That would make recruiting impossible.
If (when) Carolina moves on from Kingston, there needs to be wholesale change. We don't need a failed clemson retread.
He needs to make the SR period....especially this year. Making the SRs consistently gives you the opportunities to go on a run and win the CWS.
Evidently all an SEC has to do is not finish in the bottom three to make the playoffs... bottom three out of 14 (soon 16) teams. I dont care what team you are on in the SEC, that is not a huge accomplishment. Ok so what's the reward? A regional... a four team weekend tournament with one ranked team in it. A good test but not exactly a milestone achievement either. Let's face it, making the postseason isn't what it used to be, not for an SEC team.... which means neither is being in a regional. Ok what's next? Supers. Weekend series, best of three with a proven winner. Is getting there good enough? It's good but given the path there, gotta say not enough. Winning it? Now we are getting somewhere. Winner goes to Omaha. Satisfaction lays there.
I did say it would be a longshot but if you say he would not take that deal I guess that means he wouldnt. As I said Kingston needs to be gone. If you think it's best he stays as long as tanner is here or that Tanner should make a new hire before he retires we are going to disagree on that.