So overall IHSA Football in 2015?
- Thread starter Anon1754760634
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The first year of the success factor didn't seem to hurt Montini. Phillips made history, although some seem to question how they got there (transfers etc.). IL produced a great team this year in Loyola. There were three strong candidates for POY in Brodner, Lees and Love. And on the board, the Naz fans reached a level of obnoxiousness that came close to the 2001 R-B fans.
Going forward? Have to wonder what changes are in store from the good ol IHSA. Is separation imminent? Also, what is the future of participation levels for HS football in IL? I wonder if we are going to see instances where schools have such low numbers that they cannot field a competitive sized roster, even for 5A and above schools.
Going forward? Have to wonder what changes are in store from the good ol IHSA. Is separation imminent? Also, what is the future of participation levels for HS football in IL? I wonder if we are going to see instances where schools have such low numbers that they cannot field a competitive sized roster, even for 5A and above schools.
I think the future will have to include 8 man football.
as for as overall team talent, I think this was our best year in some time. I felt we had about 10-15 teams that could have won state in the 5-8 classes (combine)....far more than our usual. Usually, i think there are about 5.
Why is whenever a certain segment of the population wins then they didn't do it right but when others win it is just great?
Or do you think there was less truly elite teams , hence making everyone else look better and more even? Outside of Loyola, no one really looked that elite. Alot of very good teams, but no teams that were a notch above.
illini - i've maintained on the board for quite some time what I think qualifies as an elite team. As for "elite," I think LA may have been the only team...and I say think because I think to be truly "elite" you need at least one 4 star player.
The last few years, as a whole, IL football was really down...this year, we had a bunch of what were at least good teams - above average...there truly were about 15 teams that could have won state....
We really need waukegan, Springfield, western illinois, peoria, and southern illinois to start contributing for our state to really be good...but that is a song for another stage.
A lot of high quality teams out there this year. The state was deep this year, but overall felt it still lacking at the national level.
Would agree that Loyola is deserving of being somewhere on the "elite" scale. Great, great team from Illinois perspective, but personally felt they fall more in the late 20s range on a national ranking scale.
I thought it was great.
In the next 4 years you will see the football numbers increase at schools. Mark my words.
In the next 4 years you will see the football numbers increase at schools. Mark my words.
Worst State Finals games ever. Most games were blowouts with the exception of a few. To think that 10-15 teams had a chance to win state seems silly to me. The teams that won in blowout fashion would have beat anyone put in front of them.
I agree with you on the state championship games, mostly all blowouts. The teams that won were superior to their opponents. There were some GREAT playoff games though, here are some just off the top of my head:
Glenbard West vs Mt. Carmel
Loyola vs Homewood Flossmoor
Hinsdale South vs Crete-Monee
Notre Dame vs Marist
Palatine vs Sandburg
Waubonsie Valley vs Edwardsville
Nequa Valley vs Hinsdale Central
Warren vs Currie
Marist vs Barrington
Loyola vs Palatine
Reavis vs Rolling Meadows
Bradley B vs Glenbrook North
Glenbard West vs Libertyville
Lincoln Way North vs Richards
Crete Monee vs Lemont
Crete Moneey vs Sacred Heart Griffin
Montini vs Prairie Ridge
There were A LOT of good playoff games, 5 or 6 of those I listed were OT games. You can't base an entire season off of state championship games. That's 17 playoff games I just rattled off that were really good games, I'm sure there were about 7-10 more. The ones I listed were only 6A, 7A & 8A. Everyone needs to relax, quit complaining and actually enjoy a season of high school football. Bunch of Dan Bernstein's on this message board.
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High School football is all about match ups. Every team that didn't make it to the finals is not guaranteed to lose a second time around. When people make the comment about 10-15 teams that could have won state, they are respecting the fact that high school kids are unpredictable and any given Friday/ Saturday could yield totally different results. A lot of teams were one or two plays away from winning their playoff game. Do most people feel that the state games would be the same 9 out of 10 times? yes. However most feel that if we repeated the exact bracket starting today, All 16 teams aren't guaranteed to be in the finals again. I am not saying this based on teams getting a second crack at it, I am saying a lot of teams were one play away which is High School football.
Example, E'ville fumbled on the 2 going in which gave WV life. Had E'ville scored and won, it is not guaranteed that they would have made as far as WV did. I think it was a great season and playoff run. I wouldn't change it.
Example, E'ville fumbled on the 2 going in which gave WV life. Had E'ville scored and won, it is not guaranteed that they would have made as far as WV did. I think it was a great season and playoff run. I wouldn't change it.
No. I also think the ruling in NJ to do just that, is now being appealed at the highest level of education in NJ as well, little fuzzy on the details but I think thats the jist of it.
Nope and here is why...Since 2010 here is the breakdown of public vs catholic champions in 6A, 7A and 8A.
6A
Public - 4
Cathlolic - 2
7A
Public - 3
Catholic - 3
8A
Public - 4
Catholic - 2
If my math is right, you will see that over the last 6 years in classes 6A thru 8A public school teams have more state championships than catholic schools. I think the catholic schools toot their own horn a little too much and that's this debate gets raised every single year when there shouldn't even be a debate. Leave it as it is, it works, it's not perfect but it works and it was better than before.
One year doesn't ruin a system, never forget the past and remember, winter is coming and so are the white walkers.
GW was not elite? Libertyville was not elite? Montini was not elite? HF minus 1 game vs Bolingbrook was not elite? OK, whatever you say.
Lord help me, may the voice of reason still remind everyone Loyola had 1 big road win: Palatine. Where they could have easily lost if Palatine had another possession. And Loyola is unanimous #1 except for me. Grrrr.
Has everyone forgotten that Loyola only beat Palatine by a 22-24 score? Also, Palatine had many close games in the MidSuburban- West and their loss was to the last place team, Fremd, by 30 points, 19-49. Loyola won all of its Catholic Blue games by an average margin of 30 points and beat last place Rita 56-14, a 42 point margin. Was this the weakest the Catholic Blue has ever been? Are the enrollment drops killing the CCL-B? MidSuburban -West fan.
Loyola had more than one big road win. Unless, of course, you don't count Loyola giving MS a running clock smackdown AT MS to be a big road win. I guess 49-8 wasn't enough of a margin for you and that wanted LA to run up the score. Or perhaps you want to stake out the position that MS is not the same MS of old...despite two of their three losses this year coming at the hands of ultimate state champs.
Meanwhile, GBW, YOUR #1, squeaked by MC by a score of 7-0 AT GBW, while Loyola destroyed MC 49-21 this year....and you STILL couldn't bring yourself to rank LA over GBW.
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Have you forgotten that Palatine ONLY beat Brother Rice by a score of 28-24 AT Palatine? Loyola beat Rice 28-0. Have you forgotten that Marist beat Barrington (a team with the same MSLW conf record as Palatine) 59-56 and that Loyola beat Marist 41-0?
2015 playoffs record
CCL Blue 8-2
MSL West 4-5
Please stop playing the game of who beat who by how many points. The transitive property doesn't work in football. Each week is different, match-ups are different, weather, injuries, suspensions, etc.
GW - No they were not elite. They have 1 D1 player. A couple kids that are Ivy League types maybe. And a few kids that could go D3. Saw them in person, wasn't impressed from a physical standpoint. Was very impressed with the coaching, toughness, lack of penalties, they don't turn the ball over, etc. They should have lost to Mt. Carmel IMO.
Libertyville - No they were not elite. Lost in a great game to GW.
Montini - No they were not elite. They beat a very down Maine South team, a horrible St. Rita team, a down ESL team, a down St. Francis, a good Crete team in the finals. Toughest game against a pretty good PR team in the semi's. I'm not sure how they would fare in the DVC throughout an entire season or playing up in 7A for an entire season. Could they beat GW, absolutely, could they beat Libertyville, absolutely.
HF - No they were not elite. They lost to Loyola and Bolingbrook. This team has had a lot of 'pub' the last two years. And didn't win anything. Always a lot of talk about how much talent is down at HF, and yes results have been much improved. But that program isn't there yet.
-In my eyes, and by my definition, for a team to be truly elite you need to have 4, 5, 6, 7, etc. D1 guys. You need to walk onto the field and everyone in the stands knows you have a different team than them. You need to run the table, not saying you can't lose, but you need to blow the doors off of some people for your season. You need to have a great coaching staff paired up with great talent. You can have a bunch of D1 kids and not be any good, just go ask Evanston. I would also say that you need to be getting some national attention, top 25 or top 50 in the country and have an actual conversation that these teams could play with the top teams from CA, TX, FL, GA, AL, SC, PA, OH, NJ.
-When I think ELITE, I think of the 2008 ESTL team with Terry Hawthorne, Kraig Appleton, Wray, Molton, and an offensive line that averaged 300 pounds. http://ihsa.org/SportsActivities/BoysFootball/RecordsHistory.aspx?url=/data/fb/records/index.htm. Look at the conference scores, yes that conference isn't as good as the DVC or CCL Blue. Yes they had tough games against Rita and GW. Yes they lost to an Ohio team that was down that year, but I think by the end of the year thats a different team.
- I also think of the O'Toole teams at WWS that one back to back titles. Titus Davis at WR, Vitale at TE, and an OL that I believe featured twins that went to Kansas and EIU. I believe they had 5 kids on the offense that went D1. I'm sure the kids playing defense weren't a bunch of bums either.
-I'm a little younger than most of you, but many of you mentioned some of the great MC teams from the 90's or WWS teams from the 90's, do you really think this years group of teams were that good that they could have competed with them?
-This is just in my eyes, I know people will have other opinions.
This ^
Elite to me is "can you hang at the national level?" Do I think Loyola could have hung with a few of the top schools from these states. Absolutely. That in itself is a major, major compliment.
However, do I think that there's probably 15-25 schools that are simply at another level than Loyola? My answer would be yes.
M
Here's my contention, you went to ND and most of the guys I know that graduated from there have an enormous inadequacy complex when it comes to Loyola. I can remember beating the Dons by 50 points every time and at every level we played them in the '90s (except for the '94 game LA 12 ND 0). I live down the street from Fremd and I went to the ND v. Fremd playoff game 2 years ago. I wore my LA hat and sat on the ND side. I was met by groans and a couple people muttered "F Loyola under their breaths." I sat on the ND side because I have never like Fremd and thought perhaps there would be some Catholic congeniality, alas I was wrong. A few guys in their mid twenties asked if I was a scout for LA and I explained that I was not and that I would like to see Fremd lose. They were very obnoxious and quite adamant that the Chris James led team would "smoke" the Ramblers. I don't recall the Dons winning that game either....wasn't it 24-0 LA???
Moreover, Stevenson eked out a 26-24 victory over the Pirates and LA beat Stevie 49-0 in the playoffs with LA's starters out mid 3rd Q. Not taking anything away from Palatine, but the LA v Palatine playoff game was under very unusual circumstances, i.e. a foot and a half of snow. Although the Palatine folks worked tirelessly to make the field playable, it was a sheet of ice and LA spotted the Pirates 13 points with 2 bad snaps from the #1 long snapper in the country - wouldn't happen again. They play that game under normal conditions and LA wins by 3 TDs. Do you think NAZ would have lost that game to Marian if there wasn't a flash flood? Yes, I recall giving some of the NAZ guys grief after that loss, but there's no way Marian wins that game under normal circumstances. I also understand that Palatine played on the same field as LA, however, weather like that is the great equalizer. Look, I was born and raised in Palatine and live and work here still. I have huge respect for their program and their community and they will be a team to reckon with next year.
Here's my contention, you went to ND and most of the guys I know that graduated from there have an enormous inadequacy complex when it comes to Loyola. I can remember beating the Dons by 50 points every time and at every level we played them in the '90s (except for the '94 game LA 12 ND 0). I live down the street from Fremd and I went to the ND v. Fremd playoff game 2 years ago. I wore my LA hat and sat on the ND side. I was met by groans and a couple people muttered "F Loyola under their breaths." I sat on the ND side because I have never like Fremd and thought perhaps there would be some Catholic congeniality, alas I was wrong. A few guys in their mid twenties asked if I was a scout for LA and I explained that I was not and that I would like to see Fremd lose. They were very obnoxious and quite adamant that the Chris James led team would "smoke" the Ramblers. I don't recall the Dons winning that game either....wasn't it 24-0 LA???
Not sure. I've been told having 6+ Fbs/fcs kids means nothing. I'm confuzzled.
I don't know, I've been thinking about Daenerys Targaryen ever since that White Walkers comment.
Let me see if I have this straight:
- the CCL Blue is weak because LA beat everyone in the CCL Blue by an average of 30 points.
- LA is weak because they only beat the CCL Blue who couldn't keep within 30 points of them.
- LA is also weak because they only beat Palatine by 2.
- And all of MSL West is good, because Palatine only lost to LA by 2.
- LA is weak because they only beat Palatine on the road. (Ignore the week 2 tick tock and week 9 at Gately.)
- LA is weak because they beat HF at home.
- LA is weak because they walked down the field on Palatine, not giving them the ball or letting a ref make a bad call, to seal the win.
- LA is weak because they won all their games by either a lot or a little.
Maine South almost lost to Evanston who gave up 60 the next week to South Elgin. Maine South was down 2 TD's to GBS and they were 4-5. Maine South beat NT by a TD. Maine South should have lost to Plainfield North in the playoffs. I was at the game myself. Then Maine South lost to Moline. So don't give me Maine South as a quality road win. Not this Maine South team.
NO ONE on this board is more pro-Palatine than me, but no they wouldn't have. When we got within 2 there was still ~ 1:50 left in the game and we had 2 timeouts. Loyola was able to make the first downs to run that clock down when they had to...and knelt down at the end inside Palatine's 5 yard line. If we had gotten the 2-pt conversion and tied the game at 24-24...and they had that same drive at the end, they could have easily kicked a field goal or pushed in for a TD.
To me, answering the challenges by HF and Palatine when they hadn't been challenged(or even behind) all season prior to that, just makes them even moreso the true champion in my mind. I've seen alot of teams that have had it easy choke or crumble when they run into a true contest...Loyola did not.
So the common rabble about privates is that they recruit. However ITT we are told to be truly elite they need to be on par with a bunch of national schools who recruit from around the country? You really want to see Loyola hit the stars like STA, SJB, Gorman and Oaks? Y'all better cinch up your panties if that's the desire.
Maine South also gave undefeated state champ Montini (a team you had highly ranked) its closest game of the year AT Montini.
Look, I get that this year's MS is not a strong as previous years. BUT, it is just plain stubborn and stupid of you to insist that LA's running clock win over the Hawks AT MS was not a quality road win, when MS finished the season at 8-3 with two of those losses coming against undefeated state champs.
If NDCP had been the team dealing MS a 49-8 thrashing at MS, I know that you would be claiming that as a quality road win for the Dons. Given the Dons' light schedule this past year, I daresay you would be claiming such a win as the Dons' lone quality road win.
You also claim that Palatine was LA's lone quality road win. This is the same Palatine that lost to Fremd (!) and Stevenson, a team that LA beat 49-0. I think a strong argument can easily be made that LA's 49-8 road win over MS was a more impressive quality road win than the Ramblers' 24-22 win over Palatine.
You rate undefeated and 7A state champ GBW #1 when they barely beat MC AT GBW, despite the fact that undefeated and 8A state champ LA crushed MC two weeks before. Further evidence that whatever it is you have against LA is clouding your rational thought.
In terms of the DSR voters, Edgy and all the other local and national pollsters, and pretty much all the regulars here on this board, you have no company at all in your minority opinion on this. You are a minority of one; a lone wolf howling in the wind.
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So does Michelle Pfeiffer need to recruit her dates?
Or is she simply attractive?
Attractive...but it also depends on which era of Michelle Pfeiffer you're talking about.
So you are saying none of those programs recruit? I have a friend who worked on the staffs of one of those teams, and it's not really hidden...
Of course not. That would be an extreme claim.
But I am saying that Michelle Pfeiffer doesn't have to work nearly as hard to attract a good-looking man as most other women do.
Oh for sure the kids flock to these schools, as kids in the Northern subs do Loyola. However those schools also have feelers out everywhere across the nation, find kids, and lure them. LA does not do that... But if they did...
I will give you the lack of "elite" status due to the lack of a ton of D1 guys but to say GW should have lost to MC is laughable. Go back and watch the tape and you will see the most conservative game ever as GW rarely pulls out the stops in early playoff games. GW ran roughly 5 different plays all game and did just enough to hold back a pesky opponent. The result was never in doubt, only the final score.