IHSA football? Which schools academically would you include in say an Ivy League style IHSA conference?
So which schools would you include in say an Ivy League for...
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Can add in Stevenson as well.
Problem is a lot of the top ranked academic schools (magnets, etc) would get totally blown away getting tossed in a High School Ivy Leage based purely on Academic Prowess.
You would almost have to have small school High School Ivy and large school HIgh School Ivy.
Problem is a lot of the top ranked academic schools (magnets, etc) would get totally blown away getting tossed in a High School Ivy Leage based purely on Academic Prowess.
You would almost have to have small school High School Ivy and large school HIgh School Ivy.
Agree. No government schools in Ivy League.
St. Ignatius (est. 1869)
Benet Academy (est. 1887)
Wheaton Academy (est. 1853)
Lake Forest Academy (est. 1857)
Loyola Academy (est. 1909)
Mount Carmel (est. 1900)
I think the age factor is important. All of these schools are more than 100 years old, very established, deep pockets, old money.
Well the vast majority of Catholic High Schools accept anyone at this point who can write their names. It is a placement test now, not an entrance exam at all but a few. The difference is they just get rid of them if they cant hang academically or cause disruptions in class.
His institution holds more sway than yours, or mine. Not even close.
edgy:
I am likely to take some flak on this, but given my contrarian bona fides in this forum, I am perfectly willing to accept censure.
Since Ivy League schools have given birth to grade inflation, "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings," I'm unlikely to want to model any league, even a hypothetical one, for this state.
The last good idea to originate from the Ivy League was napalm.
Everything has its negatives and positives. Let's at least admit that a lot of great research comes out of the Ivy's in many fields. I at least hope it does cuz quite a few nobel laureates won the prize after earning a degree there and/or "teaching there" and/or are on staff post winning the nobel.
Trouble is affording to attend any of those schools.
Voodoo:
Oh I submit the product of wonderful minds flowed from the hallowed halls of Ivy League schools, once.
If I may, I would suggest you do some research on Harvey Mansfield. A longtime professor of government at Harvard, Mansfield has successfully sustained decades of condemnation for his relentless opposition to grade inflation. At 85, he still holds a position at the once-prestigious institution, and has tutored some great public intellectuals.
Similarly, look into the hire and resignation of Lawrence Summers as Harvard's president between 2001-06. His six-year tenure as the school's chief executive was was filled with rancor and led to a no-confidence vote, which he lost.
Summer's crime of crimes was responsibly evaluating the faculty's preoccupation with overly politicizing classrooms and delegating too much teaching time to graduate assistants. Among his chief criticism was demanding tenured educators actually teach instead of of taking time off for the purpose of conducting research. Included in explanations for "research" was recording rap music and campaigning for Democratic political candidates.
Bitter at being exposed, Harvard's faculty, perfectly comfortable with their cozy lifestyles, ran the man out of Cambridge.
Before we lament the number of students swimming in debt, estimates reveal college graduates are in over their heads to the tune of $1 trillion, let's consider the wisdom of Mansfield when he said college isn't for everybody.
Mansfield is right: Perhaps if recent graduates had not been hypnotized by the false promise of a college degree and admitted they actually don't belong in college, we would not be burdened with the percentage of kids currently without jobs.
Unfortunately for this percentage of jobless, a plague actually, and almost all of whom had no business in college in the first place, it took four years and $37k in debt for them to realize a "Gender Studies" degree from an Ivy League school is virtually worthless.
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Witt
You had to know this was coming, how much is a "gender studies" degree from the University of Notre Dame worth?
http://genderstudies.nd.edu/undergraduate-program/
University of Notre Dame
Undergraduate Programs
Requirements for an Undergraduate Primary Major, Supplementary Major or Minor in Gender Studies
Gender Studies offers students a primary major, supplementary major and a minor. In the primary major and supplementary major, students choose a concentration in Arts and Culture, Religion and Family, or Gender and Society. These concentrations allow students to focus their study of gender to prepare them for their senior capstone project.
I consider "Gender Studies" degrees from Ivy League schools, Notre Dame, Stanford or Duke, for example, every bit as meaningless and worthless as when offered at schools such as, for example, Minnesota, Illinois State, Western Illinois or Coastal Carolina.
Regardless of origin or cost, I find the degree program in "Gender Studies" is identical to other sham disciplines such as "Decision Sciences," Popular Culture," "Floral Management," "Auctioneering," "Turfgrass Science," "Packaging," "Bakery Science," or "Nannying" or "Cosmic Art."
Yes, these are true degree programs.
I chose not to list other contentious degree programs, largely because I don't want to fan flames of discontent, but the ones to which I refer are far too often vehicles harnessed to poison students' minds.
ND's tuition hovers around $64,000 per year. I am not sure what your point is, but if it is to highlight the absurdity of "Gender Studies" programs, and to compare a $64,000 price tag at ND or Harvard, which runs a comparable tuition cost, to the bargain rate of the same degree offered at a Coastal Carolina, well, you have only underscored the fact some dreamy blockhead paid less for the same inconsequential piece of paper, which is not likely to help with career advancement.
ND's tuition when I was a senior was slightly under $9,000. I have a legitimate degree; and I am fairly confident "Gender Studies" was not a degree program at the time I graduated. I believe it was a course offering within the American Studies program before it was created into a full-blown degree program.
My problem with these sham degree programs is they are always created as the result of intense social pressure and are maintained at the cost of traditional art, music, classical studies and language programs. These valuable and legitimate programs are eliminated to sustain these worthless programs.
If your point was to showcase ND has a degree program of which I disapprove, you got me, but my intent was never to suggest ND does not have ridiculous programs. On the contrary, they do and I am embarrassed by it.
Well said as usual MW!!
I am not arguing that there aren't serious issues that when an attempt to address is made.... is then met with rancor and vitriol and ends up in the current status quo.
I agree that college is not for everyone and most importantly - "it's what you put into it that determines the quality of the output."
It is a total waste of money to go to Ivy or Stanford or Northwestern or Notre dame for a "Gender studies degree" who in their right mind would pay for that? The return on investment is ugly beyond belief.
However - if you want to go electrical engineering for example - it might be worth it to pay The dollars for Northwestern for example.
Same can be said about a lot of the high schools around here. Can skate by with the minimum required to graduate or you can take that 4th year of math (calculus, Calculus II, Calc 3 with several variables) when you don't have to for graduation if you want to major in engineering or sciences or teaching etc.
To make a broad brush that the ivies are not worth it is what I disagree with. If you want to go Finance, or Have plans to get an advanced degree such as Law or MBA etc - the return on investment can look a lot better.
Final point - if you remove the "prestige" component - I think the best ROI would be to go to a quality public university such as Michigan or Wisconsin or Indiana for business, engineerIng etc etc. but that's my opinion and I don't have all the numbers such as cost of Ed vs compensation history of the grads to back me up on my opinion.
InterestIng conversation!!
Finally - Some kids can get Into these schools Ivies etc via sports when they wouldn't otherwise make the cut as a John Q student. That needs to be taken into account when picking colleges (along with the COST
which is the most important, as well as what you think you want to do and Major in and how that compares to what school A or university B offers)
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On that point we agree!! I'm not paying for any of my kids to get a degree like that!!
If you think college is expensive now, just wait until it's free.
I'm having the cost debate in my home right now with two heading off in August - U of I and DePaul being the recipients of my money. Each has a definite career plan and a very targetted major/area of study.
Northwestern was in the mix - kinda glad they were rejected at that price. Many of their academic peers are going to U of I or UW-Madison, but one is MIT-bound, another gained entry to Stanford and then others are going to the likes of Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Melon and Michigan business school.
It would be an interesting study to track these kids' education cost and ROI throughout life.
Northwestern was in the mix - kinda glad they were rejected at that price. Many of their academic peers are going to U of I or UW-Madison, but one is MIT-bound, another gained entry to Stanford and then others are going to the likes of Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Melon and Michigan business school.
It would be an interesting study to track these kids' education cost and ROI throughout life.
don't kid yourself. he simply beat me to the board. I texted that to him the prior evening.
So the sway you reference is making a fraud of academics? Because that's what he's talking. So sure, if you want to assert it, MC has more sway in that regards...
I think you're taking liberties with my statement. Quit making Naz out to be some temple of education or on some higher moral ground. It's laughable and beneath you.
So saying the entrance exam is not a joke is "making Naz out to be some temple of education or on some higher moral ground"? Did not know academics were such a farce elsewhere...
He made light of exams, I said speak for your school. That's not making Naz out to be anything. I never even tried to place Naz in the "Ivies"
The original post said academically not historically. Mount Carmel is laughable when it comes to academically.
I am not an MC guy, but how does Mt Carmel make a fraud of academics? I was under the impression it was a pretty good school academically. On par with the others in the area (Rita, Rice, Marist)
He never said the exams were a joke, just clearly stated they are placement exams, not entrance exams, at the majority of Catholic schools. You whined, I corrected you. End of story.
Not saying it belongs as an Ivy, but JCA can trace it roots back to 1869 as St Francis Academy.