So with this (mild) outrage with MSU a 2 in Duke's region, where was this in 2013

kwyjibos13

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We have seen this before. In 2013, I thought Duke was the best 2 seed (ended up being 6 on the S-Curve) with Louisville's overall 1. The explanation was to give Duke an advantageous geographic region to be paired with the overall 1.

While it is kind of different as it would have made more geographic sense to send MSU to Louisville, do people not realize this has happened before?

Dear NCAA, send the 1 seeds to the most geographic advantageous region. But after that, straight line it on the S curve with the only bracket rule is BYU must play Thursday-Saturday (but Liberty plays on Friday - odd the can play on Sunday...)
 

SwatX1

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Who would be our 2 seed if they done that? I don't know the order of the 2's.
 

SwatX1

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Yeah, I don't mind our 2. I still think it's our 3 and 4 that I don't like as well. I would rather have the 3 and 4 from the south. I am not worried about playing who we have, but I would rather have those from the south
 

tripleb71

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The only two seed that would have been slightly better would have been Michigan, IMO. Michigan wouldn't be able to score enough to beat us. Mich St. didn't look great when they were playing out of conference. They are good, but they aren't Duke good when we are clicking.
 

BeerPoisoning

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I don’t recall the geophraphic location being the reasoning for our #2 seed placement in 2013. I was at the Midwest regional that year when we played MSU then Louisville, it was in Indianapolis... I remember the red and green crowd cover about as well as I remember seeing Kevin Ware’s leg on the corner-wall jumbotron.

Additionally - I live really close to Indy and I’ve driven to Durham before, I can assure you that it’s a solid 8 hour trip. I wouldn’t call that a location bonus. It would have made more geographical sense that year to put us in the East and send us to D.C.
 

dukiejay

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Michigan would have been our two seed had they used the S-curve. To be honest, does it really matter? I’m not sure. I saw something last night that said there’s over a 50% chance one of MSU or Duke don’t make it that far.

Last year a lot of Duke fans were mad when MSU was made the three seed in our region. They lost to 11-seed Syracuse.
 

lyonhawk

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There actually was a fair bit of criticism that year. Our seed really got thrown off by the Ryan Kelly injury. There was a lot of talk we should’ve been a one, then got screwed ending up in Louisville’s region.
 

dukiejay

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There actually was a fair bit of criticism that year. Our seed really got thrown off by the Ryan Kelly injury. There was a lot of talk we should’ve been a one, then got screwed ending up in Louisville’s region.

Our loss to a mediocre-at-best Maryland team in the ACCT really did us in. We win that game (which should have been a layup...no pun intended) and we’re probably a one seed, no questions asked. We opened the door ourselves on that one.
 

Canadian Dukie

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Any one watch Pardon The Interruption? Last night Mike Wilbon,who's a Big 10 homer said the the Big 10 was the best conference,and that Michigan State will beat Duke in the regional final.
 

Neue Regel

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Duke had three wins over teams ranked in the top 5 that year in Ohio State, Louisville and Kentucky. And wins over VCU(who got a 5 seed in NCAA'S) Minnesota(11 seed in NCAA) and Temple(got a 9 seed in NCAA) Not to mention 2-0 vs some school in Chapel Hill.

That was a damn good Duke team. The Kelly injury really hurt them but they still were very good and the strongest 2 seed with all those Seniors imo. Should not have been with Louisville. Oh and of course Sparty was in the same region as well and Duke beat them to get to the final 8.
 

AlanInNJ

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I've got a friend who lives in MI and is a State fan. Good guy. He tells me their fan base is blowing up because they are are coming off winning the Big Ten tourney and should be seeded higher coming out of a tough Big Ten conference. Their reward is they get sent east and have #1 overall Duke in their bracket. I think they have a point. Overall it seems the Big Ten was not favorably seeded by the committee.

Either way, as noted, there is a lot of basketball to be played before anyone reaches an E8 game. Nothing is a given. Just ask UMBC.
 

Canadian Dukie

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.

Either way, as noted, there is a lot of basketball to be played before anyone reaches an E8 game. Nothing is a given. Just ask UMBC.[/QUOTE]
Better still ask Virginia!
 
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JC CATS

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You probably shouldn't worry about a team that IU beat 2 times and Illinois beat and MSU is banged up as well
 

dukiejay

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You probably shouldn't worry about a team that IU beat 2 times and Illinois beat and MSU is banged up as well

I don't really think anyone is 'worried' about them. Besides, the fact they were beat by IU twice or Illinois doesn't mean a whole lot right now. Are you telling me because we beat UK like our red-headed step child you don't think you guys have a chance if we played again? That's not how this works.
 
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The only two seed that would have been slightly better would have been Michigan, IMO. Michigan wouldn't be able to score enough to beat us. Mich St. didn't look great when they were playing out of conference. They are good, but they aren't Duke good when we are clicking.

Nobody is as good as you are when clicking.

MSU is a damn fine team and we have dudes like Goins and Tilman that are excellent defenders and rebounders and could bang with Zion a bit.

I think Winston a consensus All American could handle the on ball pressure. He got the better of Simpson from UM 3 times and Simpson is considered an elite on ball defender.

Of course--before matchups are even broken down--its Izzos record vs K that makes us MSU fans queezy.

Having said that, the odds are less than 50% that Duke and MSU even play eachother. I think you have a sneaky tough game vs UCF if UCF beats VCU
 

JC CATS

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I don't really think anyone is 'worried' about them. Besides, the fact they were beat by IU twice or Illinois doesn't mean a whole lot right now. Are you telling me because we beat UK like our red-headed step child you don't think you guys have a chance if we played again? That's not how this works.
Do you think we would have a chance against you? I am not "scared" but I am glad we didn't get in your bracket.
 

SwatX1

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Do you think we would have a chance against you? I am not "scared" but I am glad we didn't get in your bracket.

Ky has a chance against anybody, but I really like us in that matchup. i don't see anything even close to what happened the first time though
 

Showenuff

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Several metrics have the B1G as the best conference this year

 
Dec 3, 2010
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Haha okaaaay. Better recheck those metrics

B1G is much better in the bottom quadrant than the ACC this year. ACC is no doubt better at the top but the depth of the B1G is why its such a strong league this year.

KenPom ranks 4 ACC teams lower than the lowest B1G team. And Wake is beyond pathetic--Big 10 has no one near that level of garbage.

B1G has 10 teams in KenPom top 50.
 

hpnole

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I may differ from some on here, but my opinion is that MSU is the 3rd best 2-seed. I rank Tennessee and Kensucky above them. I'm really not outraged at all.
I am not either. Actually the team that I would least like to play right now is Auburn.
 

HuffyJB

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B1G is much better in the bottom quadrant than the ACC this year. ACC is no doubt better at the top but the depth of the B1G is why its such a strong league this year.

KenPom ranks 4 ACC teams lower than the lowest B1G team. And Wake is beyond pathetic--Big 10 has no one near that level of garbage.

B1G has 10 teams in KenPom top 50.

I think MSU is outstanding and the Big 10 is tough, but as far as league arguments, I don't think the "our worst teams are better than your worst teams" is any kind of trump card. League strength is not determined by the fact that Rutgers (or whomever) is better than Georgia Tech. I think when a conference features the three best teams in the country, and two other borderline top ten teams (Virginia Tech and FSU) there is no real argument as to the toughest league.
 
Dec 3, 2010
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I think MSU is outstanding and the Big 10 is tough, but as far as league arguments, I don't think the "our worst teams are better than your worst teams" is any kind of trump card. League strength is not determined by the fact that Rutgers (or whomever) is better than Georgia Tech. I think when a conference features the three best teams in the country, and two other borderline top ten teams (Virginia Tech and FSU) there is no real argument as to the toughest league.

Actually Rutgers is better than 4 teams according to the metrics. And Rutgers isnt our lowest rated team--Illinois is.

There's no argument you guys are better at the top--but as an overall conference the B1G is really tough.

And yes, how bad the bottom is matters.
 

HuffyJB

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I'm still good with where the ACC stands if their argument is the quality of their best teams, and the Big 10's argument is the quality of their worst teams.
 

Hoop Dummy

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Michigan state doesnt have three guys injured. Kentucky fans on Rupp Rafters continue to spew things like... half of MSU’s team is out, etc, etc
The truth is, they lost Langford 21 games ago. The freshman who replaced him in the lineup is a way better defender and rebounder, bigger and more athletic. Langford scored more, but his effective field goal percentage throughout his career has been mediocre at best. Henry, his replacement, will play in the NBA, he has huge upside. Anybody who watched the Michigan game Sunday and saw the coast to coast dunk saw a heck of an athlete. Both the regular season and tourney championships in the B1G were won without Langford playing.
MSU finished 4th in Kenpom offensive effeciency nationally. They overcame the loss of Langford and didnt miss a beat. The offensive numbers actually went up.
That said, a while back Nick Ward went out with a stress fracture on the top of his shooting hand. He returned at the start of the B1G tourney. He is going to have a tough job getting his starting job back.
Xavier Tillman( B1G 6th man of the year) has become a better player. So 15 ppg Ward is coming off the bench, an all B1G performer. Tillman has averaged almost 15ppg since replacing Ward. Defensively way superior to Ward, better free throw shooter, and way better pick and roll guy with Winston. MSU has went ball screen action recently with excellent results. Some fans will be surprised who have watched MSU over the years. They play differently. The emergence of Tillman is a big part of that
So MSU was only down Langford from December entering last weekend, until Sunday in the B1G tourney final. Reserve wing Kyle Ahrens got hurt and wont return this season. He averaged 4.7 points this year, but because of back issues has been rendered mostly ineffective recently. Last 7 games he scored a total of 8 points. Still, veteran player who will be missed in the rotation. He made one bucket in the entire B1G tourney, a 3 Sunday right before he got hurt

So MSU is down its 8th man, and Langford, who again has been out since December.
They are far from a wounded team. The best they have played has actually been down the stretch winning 11 of 12 entering the tourney. Included in that stretch are 5 wins against Wisconsin/ Michigan including beating both on the road
Of interest, only 4 teams are top 10 offense and defense Ken Pom. Virginia, Carolina, Duke, and Michigan st.
Those sorts of teams generally fare pretty well historically.
The above all said, Duke is going to be a handful for anybody
 
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sheyduke

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A lot of annylist are giving the nudge to MSU over Duke. Why, I have no clue. Winston is good but I’d take Tre and Goldwire on him. Reddish isn’t no scrub on defense and they have no one to stop Zion or Barrett.

Read an article where one annylist said he believes MSU wears Duke down and keeps Zion to 18 or 20 points. He must have not watched the ACC tourney because he had that on the third day of back to back games and a one of those teams are also predicted by some to win it all. I don’t worry about MSU.
 

Hoop Dummy

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May 18, 2015
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A lot of annylist are giving the nudge to MSU over Duke. Why, I have no clue. Winston is good but I’d take Tre and Goldwire on him. Reddish isn’t no scrub on defense and they have no one to stop Zion or Barrett.

Read an article where one annylist said he believes MSU wears Duke down and keeps Zion to 18 or 20 points. He must have not watched the ACC tourney because he had that on the third day of back to back games and a one of those teams are also predicted by some to win it all. I don’t worry about MSU.

Winston ate up Zavier Simpson. He is a heck of a defender. B1G all defensive team.
MSU can switch 1 through 5 defensively. Tillman, Goins, Henry and Mc Quaid( B1G all defensive team) are all excellent, versatile defenders. Winston is average, but the other four are ultra solid.
Duke ball pressure has always been what bothered MSU. It wont if they play this year.
Not saying Duke isnt the favorite, but this is a very unique MSU team. They score easily and defend elitely.
Hope they get to meet. Will be a fun game to watch. Much better “ team” than the one with Bridges and JJJ, both O and D wise.
The three Michigan games, in the last 15 minutes of each(45 minutes) MSU outscored UM 104-58. They grind teams down
 

dbav

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Analysts will give the underdogs the edge. That's how they build interest. I have no problem with our bracket.
 
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sheyduke

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Winston ate up Zavier Simpson. He is a heck of a defender. B1G all defensive team.
MSU can switch 1 through 5 defensively. Tillman, Goins, Henry and Mc Quaid( B1G all defensive team) are all excellent, versatile defenders. Winston is average, but the other four are ultra solid.
Duke ball pressure has always been what bothered MSU. It wont if they play this year.
Not saying Duke isnt the favorite, but this is a very unique MSU team. They score easily and defend elitely.
Hope they get to meet. Will be a fun game to watch. Much better “ team” than the one with Bridges and JJJ, both O and D wise.
The three Michigan games, in the last 15 minutes of each(45 minutes) MSU outscored UM 104-58. They grind teams down
Will Mcquaid be back for MSU?
 

SwatX1

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I have more faith in Vegas than any ESPN analyst. Vegas can't afford to be wrong. Analysts can. Vegas likes the hell out of us. They also like UVA a lot, who we beat twice. Once without our point guard. MSU absolutely can beat any team in the country. But I'll take us at full strength against anybody
 
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DukeRulesBasketball

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I have more faith in Vegas than any ESPN analyst. Vegas can't afford to be wrong. Analysts can. Vegas likes the hell out of us. They also like UVA a lot, who we beat twice. Once without our point guard. MSU absolutely can beat any team in the country. But I'll take us at full strength against anybody
Every time I watch the ESPN analysts, they make me nervous! Lol
 
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