Some notes regarding our play against P5 vs non-P5 opponents

CappyNU

Junior
Mar 2, 2004
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There's a great website called hoop-explorer.com that I think I've referenced before. You can pull out a ton of info from it if you know how to work the tools - not the most intuitive system. I was able to get a comparison though between our 5 games against non-P5 competition and our 6 P5 opponents, so here's some nuggets I found:

1. The offense basically performs the same when adjusted for competition against both groups. One big difference is that we shoot 3% fewer 3-pointers and 3% more midrange jumpers against P5 teams, and the other big difference is that we have 26% of our possessions in transition against non-P5 vs 19% against P5.

2. The defense, on the other hand...yikes. Against non-P5 teams, we're great. Holding teams to just 40% shooting, barely fouling, getting turnovers on 21% of possessions, forcing teams into a ton of bad midrange shots while keeping them away from the rim, and blocking 1 out of 8 shots when they do get to the rim. Against P5 teams, we are atrocious, and it's all on the interior. We allow 20 more points per 100 possessions against P5 vs non-P5 when adjusted for competition. Teams have 17% of possessions in transition vs just 8% against non-P5. We let teams get to the rim way too often, where they are shooting 63%, and when they miss shots, they are rebounding 39% of their own misses. We also foul at an insanely high rate and don't force very many turnovers. It spells trouble, big-time, for conference season.

3. Nick Martinelli - P5 teams have been successful at forcing him into midrange jumpshots and floaters - 46% of his shots are midrange against P5 vs 33% against non-P5, along with getting the ball out of his hands - assist rate is doubled against P5 compared to non-P5 (12% vs 6%). He also only hits 39% of those midrange shots against P5 vs 57% against non-P5. P5 teams have completely squashed his transition opportunities as well, at just 6% of his possessions vs 16%, along with his ability to get catch-and-shoot 3s off (2.5% vs 11%). We need to do a better job of getting him opportunities to get downhill if we want to be successful.

4. Arrinten Page - Against P5 teams, he turns the ball over twice as much (13% vs 6%), gets offensive boards at half the rate (6% vs 12%), and gets to the FT line significantly less (FTRate of 28 vs 69, yeesh). Like Martinelli, P5 teams are forcing him away from the rim, though he has been excellent from 2-point range, but just 3-14 from distance. He's also rebounding much less on the defensive side while fouling a lot more. His offensive game looks pretty much the same, just less efficient.

5. Jayden Reid - Let's start with the positives. His 3-point shooting is much better against the P5 teams than the others, 39% vs 10%. He's also taking 1/3 of his shots as 3s against P5 vs 24% against non-P5. His assist rate is also much higher against P5 - 36% vs 31%. Unfortunately, there's a lot of negatives too. Turnovers on 22% of possessions is very high for a PG on a CC-coached team, he's barely forcing any steals, is fouling at an unbelievable rate and shoots just 32% at the rim. He's another player who has really been hurt by not getting transition opportunities, as 24% of his possessions against non-P5 are in transition but just 12% against P5 - and even when he does get them, he is woefully inefficient at finishing.

6. Playing time/rotation - Martinelli is averaging 36mpg against P5 teams vs 30mpg against non-P5. Page is at 30mpg vs 26, Reid is at 28mpg vs 25. Singleton has been steady at 23mpg. After that it gets more interesting. Gelo is at 27mpg against P5 vs just 16mpg against non-P5, KJ was at 15 vs 17 until he essentially didn't play the past two games, Mullins got 20mpg against DePaul and Virginia before only getting 4mpg in the next 4 P5 games, and Clayton went from not playing in 3 P5 games to now logging 23mpg against both P5 and non-P5.

We have 20 games left to play, and 12 of them are against Quad 1 opposition. Right now per Torvik, the Wisconsin road game is rated as our 8th-toughest out of 10 while the OSU home game is our 5th-toughest home game of the 10. That is to say, don't expect a lot of wins the rest of the way unless we suddenly learn how to play much better team defense.
 

CappyNU

Junior
Mar 2, 2004
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Oh, forgot to make some lineup notes:

Against P5 competition, our best overall lineup (small sample size alert!) has been Reid-Green-Gelo-Singleton-Martinelli, albeit in just 13 possessions. After that, it's Reid-Clayton-Gelo-Martinelli-Page in 20 possessions, which is offensively gifted and defensively abysmal. Our worst lineup has been Reid-KJ-Gelo-Martinelli-Page in 31 possessions. The most used lineup has been Reid-Gelo-Martinelli-Singleton-Page in 89 possessions, which would be doing a lot better if they could cut down the offensive turnovers from 20%, and bump up the steals and defensive rebounds.

Against non-P5 competition, the best has been Reid-KJ-Mullins-Martinelli-Page in just 12 possessions, absolute lockdown defensively. Next best is West-Green-Mullins-Singleton-Page in 20 possessions. Worst has been Reid-Clayton-Mullins-Martinelli-Page in 20 possessions, just a nightmare of offensive boards given up and defensive fouls. Most used has been Reid-Clayton-Gelo-Martinelli-Page in 26 possessions,
 
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Sep 9, 2015
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Watching the games, the biggest areas that need improvement are interior defense and rebounding. Makes sense that those issues get amplified against better competition, where you can’t just win possessions by out-athleting people and you actually have to be sound, physical, and connected around the rim. Interesting to see the numbers behind it.
 

SDakaGordie

Sophomore
Dec 29, 2016
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And amazing that all the problems are on the interior and none mentioned are on the exterior when you have to go through the exterior to get to the interior. (Horrendous rebounding and 50/50 ball wins notwithstanding).
 

CoralSpringsCat

All-Conference
Dec 10, 2018
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Watching the games, the biggest areas that need improvement are interior defense and rebounding. Makes sense that those issues get amplified against better competition, where you can’t just win possessions by out-athleting people and you actually have to be sound, physical, and connected around the rim. Interesting to see the numbers behind it.

Feels like the roster was poorly constructed with a major oversight upfront. 🤷‍♂️
 
Sep 9, 2015
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Feels like the roster was poorly constructed with a major oversight upfront. 🤷‍♂️
A backup center wouldn’t have impacted the defense in the way people are hoping. Page is actually an addition I really like. He is a transfer with two years of eligibility, a high-upside athletic swing, and you get him for multiple seasons. We have already seen the offense is mostly fine. The defense and rebounding are what need to catch up. That is a big role change for him, but all things considered I think he has been solid. He came into a roster with no returning big men and immediately filled a real need.

Reid is similar in that sense. He also comes in with multiple years of eligibility and clearly addresses another major hole. KJ and Clayton were the only returners who could even attempt to handle the lead guard spot, and Reid has been head and shoulders above both this season. The offense simply functions better with him on the floor. That was a clear need and they nailed it.

Then you add Green, again a multi year guy. I am sensing a trend here. With Page coming in and Martinelli returning, this addition makes a lot of sense from a roster fit standpoint. Where do Page and Martinelli want to score? What kind of player gives those guys more space to operate on the block? Especially when your only other true perimeter shooting threat is KJ, the floor spacing element becomes obvious. This move makes a ton of sense.

All of these guys have Big Ten level ability and, importantly, multiple years of eligibility. That does not feel accidental. It looks a lot like a developmental year for both the transfer group and a large freshman class. Obviously you still want to win, and Martinelli is good enough to swing games, but this is the kind of roster that improves as the season goes on. The transfers feel more like a bridge class meant to stabilize things and grow alongside a very young core.

The roster construction problem is not that they did not grab a backup center. It is that they have only gotten two real contributors out of two upperclass recruiting classes. Three if you count Mullins transferring in.
 

CappyNU

Junior
Mar 2, 2004
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And amazing that all the problems are on the interior and none mentioned are on the exterior when you have to go through the exterior to get to the interior. (Horrendous rebounding and 50/50 ball wins notwithstanding).
What do you think I should have mentioned that I didn't? Saying "we let teams get to the rim way too often" implicates the exterior defense and the inability to force players into mid-range shots.
 

SDakaGordie

Sophomore
Dec 29, 2016
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What do you think I should have mentioned that I didn't? Saying "we let teams get to the rim way too often" implicates the exterior defense and the inability to force players into mid-range shots.
Reacting to “we are atrocious and it’s all on the interior”.
 

SDakaGordie

Sophomore
Dec 29, 2016
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Do you disagree?
Let me ask first - which of the two contradictory statements you made do you stand by - is it all interior or it implies both exterior and interior?

I have already stated my belief that it’s both.
We get beat outside and can’t adjust quick / smart enough yet to make up for it as well as in the past. Lots of fouls show it. No boxing out leads to losing 50/50 balls. We are not functioning well as individuals or a team and all are to blame. I hope it all improves.
 

CappyNU

Junior
Mar 2, 2004
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Let me ask first - which of the two contradictory statements you made do you stand by - is it all interior or it implies both exterior and interior?

I have already stated my belief that it’s both.
We get beat outside and can’t adjust quick / smart enough yet to make up for it as well as in the past. Lots of fouls show it. No boxing out leads to losing 50/50 balls. We are not functioning well as individuals or a team and all are to blame. I hope it all improves.
Then yes, we are in agreement and I worded it inelegantly. What I meant by saying it's all interior is that is where it shows up in the stats, i.e. the lack of rebounding, the high rate of shots at the rim and all of the fouls, but you are correct in that there are breakdowns on the perimeter which allow the opposing players to get to the interior. What I should have just said is that our 3-point defense has not suffered, and teams are taking about the same amount of 3s against us whether P5 or not P5.
 
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