Something a lot of fans don't realize

[UKani]

We criticize this football staff, and rightfully so, but one thing I don't think a lot of fans don't realize or haven't heard is that UK's defensive staff is highly sought after. Jimmy Brumbaugh was sought after to leave to South Carolina, Andy Buh was asked to be a coordinator at a Power 5 school, so was DJ Eliott, and Derrick Ansley was south after to leave to Georgia. Mark Stoops kept all these guys.

On the offensive side of the ball only Vince Marrow was sought after for a recruiting coordinator position. Nobody else on offense was. Shannon Dawson got fired and he's not landed a job yet, and Tommy Mainord got fired and landed at North Texas, a big drop off.

Stoops has done a good job of staffing the defensive side of the ball, but last year not so well on the offensive side of the ball. Neal Brown was a sought after guy, but beyond that nobody was except for Vince Marrow. Now we've gotten 2 other coaches Hinshaw and Gran who are of that calibure that other big teams want and will want. It remains to be seen about Chad Scott and John Schlarman however, but all in all UK has a extremely talented football coaching staff!

 

[JasonS.]

Good post.

Worth noting Stoops also has had not just one but two (Peveto, Naivar) Special Teams Coordinators hired away in three seasons. Back when we had one of those.

 

[StoopRaid7]

Yeah they just need to learn how to stop a running QB

 

[Bluetick2100]

Yeah they just need to learn how to stop a running QB

over and over and over and over........

 

[Mr Schwump]

We criticize this football staff, and rightfully so, but one thing I don't think a lot of fans don't realize or haven't heard is that UK's defensive staff is highly sought after. Jimmy Brumbaugh was sought after to leave to South Carolina, Andy Buh was asked to be a coordinator at a Power 5 school, so was DJ Eliott, and Derrick Ansley was south after to leave to Georgia. Mark Stoops kept all these guys.

On the offensive side of the ball only Vince Marrow was sought after for a recruiting coordinator position. Nobody else on offense was. Shannon Dawson got fired and he's not landed a job yet, and Tommy Mainord got fired and landed at North Texas, a big drop off.

Stoops has done a good job of staffing the defensive side of the ball, but last year not so well on the offensive side of the ball. Neal Brown was a sought after guy, but beyond that nobody was except for Vince Marrow. Now we've gotten 2 other coaches Hinshaw and Gran who are of that calibure that other big teams want and will want. It remains to be seen about Chad Scott and John Schlarman however, but all in all UK has a extremely talented football coaching staff!

I think Scott is maybe 2-3 years away from getting a HC job at a smaller school. He's building a good resume plus he's a good young recruiter.

Fully expect Hinshaw to be a HC someday too.

 

[Rhavic]

I will say something about the Mainord deal. I think offensively, we've done just fine. Stoops mentioned earlier today that the original plan was to have Chad Scott coach wide receivers, not running backs. Neal Brown was on board with the idea as well, but things didn't play out that way (for whatever reason, I'm not sure). I'm very okay with having Chad Scott instead of Tommy Mainord.

To me, the jury is still out on Schlarman. I want to see what he can do with talented guys.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

Solid post OP...positive...perhaps even true...

no doubt most of these guys are well beyond qualified and know their stuff...individually they all have resume's that I think most of us would have taken in a heart beat through out most of the less than fantastic history of uk football...and it may all work out eventually for the best...hopefully it does...

but I don't think the fact that coaches have opportunities available to them means a whole lot...

it's a tight knit brotherhood...once you're in, you are in for life...unless you get caught doing some booger sugar with the cheerleaders, you're going to have a chance for gig somewhere...hell some schools might not even care about that...

Joker got a job at Florida...

Randy Sanders goes from a dumpster fire here, right to a premier gig...

Tee Martin leaves a this mess with not a lot of experience and now is OC at USC...

a lot of the Miami staff that was caught up in that mess is still employed somewhere...

Hal Mumme is still coaching...

Gene Chizik was 5-19 at Iowa St prior to Auburn...yes he was a well respected DC at Auburn and Texas...but still...5-19 and gets a big time P5 HC...come on now....

Bobby Petrino...after all the bridges he's burned and scandal he's been caught up in as well as being notorious for running a low class program...

long story short...having the opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean a whole lot to me if you can't put a competitive product on the field here...getting calls from other P5 gigs is great, but that doesn't change the fact that Dak Prescott and Josh Dobbs always have career games against us...even when we know exactly what they are and that their offenses depend heavily on them...

they all may individually be very attractive and perfectly capable candidates...but collectively as a group thus far, they have fallen short of expectations that aren't extremely high here...

 

[UKani]

Yeah they just need to learn how to stop a running QB

over and over and over and over........

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

 

[UKani]

Solid post OP...positive...perhaps even true...

no doubt most of these guys are well beyond qualified and know their stuff...individually they all have resume's that I think most of us would have taken in a heart beat through out most of the less than fantastic history of uk football...and it may all work out eventually for the best...hopefully it does...

but I don't think the fact that coaches have opportunities available to them means a whole lot...

it's a tight knit brotherhood...once you're in, you are in for life...unless you get caught doing some booger sugar with the cheerleaders, you're going to have a chance for gig somewhere...hell some schools might not even care about that...

Joker got a job at Florida...

Randy Sanders goes from a dumpster fire here, right to a premier gig...

Tee Martin leaves a this mess with not a lot of experience and now is OC at USC...

a lot of the Miami staff that was caught up in that mess is still employed somewhere...

Hal Mumme is still coaching...

Gene Chizik was 5-19 at Iowa St prior to Auburn...yes he was a well respected DC at Auburn and Texas...but still...5-19 and gets a big time P5 HC...come on now....

Bobby Petrino...after all the bridges he's burned and scandal he's been caught up in as well as being notorious for running a low class program...

long story short...having the opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean a whole lot to me if you can't put a competitive product on the field here...getting calls from other P5 gigs is great, but that doesn't change the fact that Dak Prescott and Josh Dobbs always have career games against us...even when we know exactly what they are and that their offenses depend heavily on them...

they all may individually be very attractive and perfectly capable candidates...but collectively as a group thus far, they have fallen short of expectations that aren't extremely high here...

I understand your assertion but without speculation I know a lot of coaches. Practically know half of the Arizona State football coaches, Norvell which was a friend of mine is now the head coach at Memphis, got to know Major Applewhite well at Rice and was at Tulsa with both Chad Morris and Gus Malzhan, and Matt Wells, Utah State's Coach was a Wide Receivers coach when I was at Tulsa and I still talk to him, so I know a lot of coaches. With that said I can 100% assure you that if coaches think you can't coach they will talk about you bad.... It's not a fraternity like you think it may be. So if other schools are trying to pry you away then they know you can coach.

Don't get it twisted Joker is one of the top WR coaches in college football. Don't take him being a lowsy HC deter you from his skills as a WR Coach. Randy Sanders too, he's an awesome QB coach but not good OC. Tee Martin, dude didn't believe in Joker in the beginning and would talk about Joker as a head coach to other coaches on staff and to recruits. He was recruiting for USC while on staff at UK.... Gene Chizic, there is a reason why he won't be a head coach again. And Hal Mumme innovated an offense that many in college football are using, so of course he's going to get looks but notice they are head coaches spots except for D3 schools.

 

[Woodrow24]

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

You've made some good points that I have been trying to make. The defense was put in bad positions all season because the offense couldn't get anything going.We don't have the depth that other schools have in the SEC and when they got tired in a lot of these games we were in trouble. That Shannon Dawson hire set the program back. Dawson refused to let Pat run the ball, didn't utilize Conrad, and was the most predictable play caller I have ever seen. You can't be stubborn and attempt to run a system that doesn't suit your team.

 

[ukalumni00]

I think Schlarman may be the weak link left on the offensive side of the ball, but he now has more pieces in place and the best Oline class to come to KY in my lifetime. His position has got to start producing next season or the question has to be raised if he needs to be let go. I knew John back during his UK days and he is great guy (can see why recruits and his players love him), but simply for a coaching standpoint he has got to start showing positive results with his guys.

 

[StoopRaid7]

G

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

Guess we need a new strength and conditioning coach if our boys are getting tired during the last game of the regular season

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

The issue has been talent and two to three deep in 3-4 star talent to withstand a 12 game SEC schedule. Until we achieve that through recruiting and development, we will struggle. None of us truly realize how depleted in talent we were at the end of Joker's reign. It wouldn't matter if Vince Lombardi was coach, one cannot win without talent.

 

[StoopRaid7]

The issue has been talent and two to three deep in 3-4 star talent to withstand a 12 game SEC schedule. Until we achieve that through recruiting and development, we will struggle. None of us truly realize how depleted in talent we were at the end of Joker's reign. It wouldn't matter if Vince Lombardi was coach, one cannot win without talent.

Don't tell Houston or Memphis that cause they beat a much more talented FSU and Ole Miss team star wise. I'm sure you'll hit me back with that FSU wasn't interested or it was only one game. Coaching is a huge part of it. It must be nice to be an Alabama fan great coach and players.

 

[un4getables]

G

Guess we need a new strength and conditioning coach if our boys are getting tired during the last game of the regular season

Well not totally correct. Did you watch the last game.. I believe we had all 3 and outs in the second half so the defense was on the field like ALL THE TIME. We really did not have the depth which is required due to injuries and well the crap hole JOKEr left.... So I don't think conditioning was the biggest issues...

 

[rdm1960]

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

I agree, it takes depth on both sides of the ball,thats what takes a while to build up ...especially in the sec

 

[kywildhog]

I think our strength and conditioning coach is doing just fine.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Don't tell Houston or Memphis that cause they beat a much more talented FSU and Ole Miss team star wise. I'm sure you'll hit me back with that FSU wasn't interested or it was only one game. Coaching is a huge part of it. It must be nice to be an Alabama fan great coach and players.

Agree with your comments on Houston and Memphis. To me, this is a "on any given day" a lesser though talented team upsets the favorite. It happens. Your viewpoint is well taken.

 

[gojvc]

We criticize this football staff, and rightfully so, but one thing I don't think a lot of fans don't realize or haven't heard is that UK's defensive staff is highly sought after. Jimmy Brumbaugh was sought after to leave to South Carolina, Andy Buh was asked to be a coordinator at a Power 5 school, so was DJ Eliott, and Derrick Ansley was south after to leave to Georgia. Mark Stoops kept all these guys.

On the offensive side of the ball only Vince Marrow was sought after for a recruiting coordinator position. Nobody else on offense was. Shannon Dawson got fired and he's not landed a job yet, and Tommy Mainord got fired and landed at North Texas, a big drop off.

Stoops has done a good job of staffing the defensive side of the ball, but last year not so well on the offensive side of the ball. Neal Brown was a sought after guy, but beyond that nobody was except for Vince Marrow. Now we've gotten 2 other coaches Hinshaw and Gran who are of that calibure that other big teams want and will want. It remains to be seen about Chad Scott and John Schlarman however, but all in all UK has a extremely talented football coaching staff!

Sorry I missed it but who wanted DJ Eliott?

 

[Poetax]

I will say something about the Mainord deal. I think offensively, we've done just fine. Stoops mentioned earlier today that the original plan was to have Chad Scott coach wide receivers, not running backs. Neal Brown was on board with the idea as well, but things didn't play out that way (for whatever reason, I'm not sure). I'm very okay with having Chad Scott instead of Tommy Mainord.

To me, the jury is still out on Schlarman. I want to see what he can do with talented guys.

The one thing that I do like, even with all the problems that we had on the oline, hearing guys on the current team and guys who were recruited in this class say that he is a class guy, made me feel better about him. And we do have to remember not many of these kids playing in the last 3 years were his recruitment plus those that did play and not well were still too young to compete with 5 year SEC seniors. Lets see how his big dogs do in a couple of years.

 

[WildCard]

Really don't think the problem is the coaching. Think the problem applying what the coaches are telling them. If we look back at film when the defense was fresh they did a good job of stopping the running QB against Louisville. It wasn't until the defense got tired that all technique and discipline went out of the window. Also even though Josh Forrest said they never prepared for a running QB, others say they did however the adjustments were prepared for the edge players not the guys in the middle, which is where Forrest resides.

UKani, we must have watched different games. I cannot remember a play where it appeared that UK was stopping Jackson. The only people that should have been tired were the guys running back those 2 picks. [laughing]

Over the course of the game UofL did run 3 more plays than did UK but the Cats actually had a 2:48 edge in TOP. I simply cannot imagine the defense being tired in the 2nd QTR or in the 3rd QTR after defending only 25 plays in the 1st half. Jackson came in with 1:21 left in the 1st QTR. UK had defended only 8 plays at that point. Jackson ran the ball 3 times in the first half, picking up 37 yards. He ran it 8 times in the 3rd QTR picking up 93 yards. Nine of those 11 runs were for 5 yards or more.

Peace

 

[Poetax]

UKani, we must have watched different games. I cannot remember a play where it appeared that UK was stopping Jackson. The only people that should have been tired were the guys running back those 2 picks. [laughing]

Over the course of the game UofL did run 3 more plays than did UK but the Cats actually had a 2:48 edge in TOP. I simply cannot imagine the defense being tired in the 2nd QTR or in the 3rd QTR after defending only 25 plays in the 1st half. Jackson came in with 1:21 left in the 1st QTR. UK had defended only 8 plays at that point. Jackson ran the ball 3 times in the first half, picking up 37 yards. He ran it 8 times in the 3rd QTR picking up 93 yards. Nine of those 11 runs were for 5 yards or more.

Peace

Yeah, I thought Ware and a couple of others couldn't bite on those fake inside runs more then once or twice but they did, over and over again.

 

[jauk11]

I will say something about the Mainord deal. I think offensively, we've done just fine. Stoops mentioned earlier today that the original plan was to have Chad Scott coach wide receivers, not running backs. Neal Brown was on board with the idea as well, but things didn't play out that way (for whatever reason, I'm not sure). I'm very okay with having Chad Scott instead of Tommy Mainord.

To me, the jury is still out on Schlarman. I want to see what he can do with talented guys.

And that still might be very hard to evaluate, because soon he isn't going to just have talented guys he is going to have super talented guys. And since he has had a big part in bringing them in I think he deserves a shot at coaching them. If they pan out like I think they will he may be an even better OL recruiter in the future.

And considering the talent coming in that would be saying something.

 

[jauk11]

Solid post OP...positive...perhaps even true...

no doubt most of these guys are well beyond qualified and know their stuff...individually they all have resume's that I think most of us would have taken in a heart beat through out most of the less than fantastic history of uk football...and it may all work out eventually for the best...hopefully it does...

but I don't think the fact that coaches have opportunities available to them means a whole lot...

it's a tight knit brotherhood...once you're in, you are in for life...unless you get caught doing some booger sugar with the cheerleaders, you're going to have a chance for gig somewhere...hell some schools might not even care about that...

Joker got a job at Florida...

Randy Sanders goes from a dumpster fire here, right to a premier gig...

Tee Martin leaves a this mess with not a lot of experience and now is OC at USC...

a lot of the Miami staff that was caught up in that mess is still employed somewhere...

Hal Mumme is still coaching...

Gene Chizik was 5-19 at Iowa St prior to Auburn...yes he was a well respected DC at Auburn and Texas...but still...5-19 and gets a big time P5 HC...come on now....

Bobby Petrino...after all the bridges he's burned and scandal he's been caught up in as well as being notorious for running a low class program...

long story short...having the opportunity elsewhere doesn't mean a whole lot to me if you can't put a competitive product on the field here...getting calls from other P5 gigs is great, but that doesn't change the fact that Dak Prescott and Josh Dobbs always have career games against us...even when we know exactly what they are and that their offenses depend heavily on them...

they all may individually be very attractive and perfectly capable candidates...but collectively as a group thus far, they have fallen short of expectations that aren't extremely high here...

Quoting from your post: "Bobby Petrino...after all the bridges he's burned and scandal he's been caught up in as well as being notorious for running a low class program..."

That could have very well been a plus to jurich when hiring him, I think one reason his recruiting has improved is because recruits know what they can get away with at Transfer U.

 

[UKani]

UKani, we must have watched different games. I cannot remember a play where it appeared that UK was stopping Jackson. The only people that should have been tired were the guys running back those 2 picks. [laughing]

Over the course of the game UofL did run 3 more plays than did UK but the Cats actually had a 2:48 edge in TOP. I simply cannot imagine the defense being tired in the 2nd QTR or in the 3rd QTR after defending only 25 plays in the 1st half. Jackson came in with 1:21 left in the 1st QTR. UK had defended only 8 plays at that point. Jackson ran the ball 3 times in the first half, picking up 37 yards. He ran it 8 times in the 3rd QTR picking up 93 yards. Nine of those 11 runs were for 5 yards or more.

Peace

Go back and watch, the edge guys did a good job playing technique and containing Jackson as well as they could at first. Now understand Jackson is super fast so containing him won't look the same as containing some other QB's or even RB's. Now if you keep watching you'll notice that our edge guys start losing technique and bite inside too much or doing stuff that isn't there responsibility and UK got beat over and over again. I understand the game of time of possession and all of that, but if those guys weren't tired then they just flat out decided not to listen and do there own thing. Its well documented on film. A coach would give the benefit of the doubt and say they got tired and technique went out the window as it often does. Players don't always just drop technique for the sake of playing hero ball if it was working at first. I do know that if players don't trust there teammates around them to make plays then they'll result to hero ball, but I don't know if that was the issue here.

 

[dreadpirate_rivals241225]

Good post.

Worth noting Stoops also has had not just one but two (Peveto, Naivar) Special Teams Coordinators hired away in three seasons. Back when we had one of those.

Naivar was terrible. I doubt he was "hired away" - probably told to go find a new job.

 

[JasonS.]

Naivar was terrible. I doubt he was "hired away" - probably told to go find a new job.

If he did, worked out pretty well. He got a promotion and a lot more money from a better program that just won 13 games out of it. He's riding shotgun on the Tom Herman rocket, which will probably put him someplace like Austin, Texas or after next season.

And I don't disagree our special teams were bad when he was here, but they were also much worse after he left.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Go back and watch, the edge guys did a good job playing technique and containing Jackson as well as they could at first. Now understand Jackson is super fast so containing him won't look the same as containing some other QB's or even RB's. Now if you keep watching you'll notice that our edge guys start losing technique and bite inside too much or doing stuff that isn't there responsibility and UK got beat over and over again. I understand the game of time of possession and all of that, but if those guys weren't tired then they just flat out decided not to listen and do there own thing. Its well documented on film. A coach would give the benefit of the doubt and say they got tired and technique went out the window as it often does. Players don't always just drop technique for the sake of playing hero ball if it was working at first. I do know that if players don't trust there teammates around them to make plays then they'll result to hero ball, but I don't know if that was the issue here.

Yep. Sometimes, giving up a big play doesn't mean technique/fundamentals/alignment/whatever was bad - just means the other guy made a play.....There was plenty of both categories on Jackson's runs in that game....

 

[dreadpirate_rivals241225]

If he did, worked out pretty well. He got a promotion and a lot more money from a better program that just won 13 games out of it. He's riding shotgun on the Tom Herman rocket, which will probably put him someplace like Austin, Texas or after next season.

And I don't disagree our special teams were bad when he was here, but they were also much worse after he left.

I'm glad it worked out for him. He's in a good situation. I'm also glad he's not here anymore.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

G

Guess we need a new strength and conditioning coach if our boys are getting tired during the last game of the regular season

Bad take. Those players had been on the field a long time during the season, and for that game. It takes a cumulative effect, especially given that we were a little thin on the DL.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

Good post, OP. I, myself, forget about all of that happening. I think this just proves that building a successful football team just takes time.

I know a lot of our fans are upset because we collapsed for the 2nd year in a row. I live in Columbia, SC now and I was thinking about that this morning. Several years ago when Spurrier first got to USC, they had a few years where they did the exact same thing. In fact, I remember several of our fans on this board wanting to move that game towards the later part of the season in order to win the game. He was building that team then. Finally, they started really winning and even won the East one year.

Hopefully that's a trend that will start happening with us, too!