South goes West...to Cal
- Thread starter lou v
- Start date
Nope, the Rock found about him last week as well; it was clearly kept ubder tight wraps.. And it took some good reporting to find out about it even last week. I assume that we don 't know about the vast majority of grad transfers that are being recruited given the good sense that our staff has (contrast to Illinois, whose recruiting monentum they had built with the retention of Ayo was immediately sunk by two very public grad transfer losses, including one where they arramged for a very public official visit, involving fans, etc.) That's why it is impossible to evaluate the significance of Soufh, since, for all we know, he may have committed to Cal because another grad transfer signing is imminent for us...
Last year was derailed due to a lack of a point guard. You can not win in college basketball without a serviceable point guard. Plain and simple. Blame who you want for this, but Lathon was not CCC’s fault. Blast him for no depth, fine at least that makes a little more sense. However, how many top level PG’s want to come in and back up an established starter at a school like NU? It’s not as simple as snapping your fingers and saying we have a need time to reload when dozens of other schools are trying to land the same guy. It’s no different than a QB in college. The narrative is already out there for everyone that we will have sucked 3 years in a row. Have at it, but it doesn’t change the reality of what the most important thing is for next year. development development development.
Personally, I don’t care if we finish 12th or some other crappy lower division versus 14th. It’s about getting back to being competitive for the tourney on an annual basis. Look at the Fighting Undies, worst team in the Big Ten the first half of the year and now next year being projected as a top 25 team. Even their fans could see last year wasn’t about wins/losses as it was about development. There is no reason NU next year can’t improve as the season progresses like the Undies did last year.
I am not seeing huge talents in these grad transfers and I haven’t seen any that make me upset that NU didn’t land them. Fitz said last week that he doesn’t recruit guys that he can’t see competing for a starting spot in 2 years. Should be the same in B Ball. Give me another spot for a coming year, rather than being stuck with a guy for two years that is a role player at best.
This is a chicken -egg type argument. What I’m saying is that it will be very difficult for us to recruit the type of players who will make us annually competitive for the tournament when we are finishing in the bottom of the conference every year.
You are saying that losing guys like South doesn’t matter because they won’t get us to the tourney. I’m saying that I think getting guys like South will help get us the guys who get us to the tourney.
If you follow football, I would argue that there is no Hunter Johnson without guys like CJ Bacher. We needed to establish respectability after breaking through in 95.
Next year now seems like a another 14th place finish. NU is a tough sell, but at least in the past we could say come be the guy on the team that makes history.
Yes, we got Bam. But while a good recruit he’s all we have right now for that class.
QUOTE="Purple Pile Driver, post: 630522, member: 1478"]Last year was derailed due to a lack of a point guard. You can not win in college basketball without a serviceable point guard. Plain and simple. Blame who you want for this, but Lathon was not CCC’s fault. Blast him for no depth, fine at least that makes a little more sense. However, how many top level PG’s want to come in and back up an established starter at a school like NU? It’s not as simple as snapping your fingers and saying we have a need time to reload when dozens of other schools are trying to land the same guy. It’s no different than a QB in college. The narrative is already out there for everyone that we will have sucked 3 years in a row. Have at it, but it doesn’t change the reality of what the most important thing is for next year. development development development.
Personally, I don’t care if we finish 12th or some other crappy lower division versus 14th. It’s about getting back to being competitive for the tourney on an annual basis. Look at the Fighting Undies, worst team in the Big Ten the first half of the year and now next year being projected as a top 25 team. Even their fans could see last year wasn’t about wins/losses as it was about development. There is no reason NU next year can’t improve as the season progresses like the Undies did last year.
I am not seeing huge talents in these grad transfers and I haven’t seen any that make me upset that NU didn’t land them. Fitz said last week that he doesn’t recruit guys that he can’t see competing for a starting spot in 2 years. Should be the same in B Ball. Give me another spot for a coming year, rather than being stuck with a guy for two years that is a role player at best.[/QUOTE]
You are saying that losing guys like South doesn’t matter because they won’t get us to the tourney. I’m saying that I think getting guys like South will help get us the guys who get us to the tourney.
If you follow football, I would argue that there is no Hunter Johnson without guys like CJ Bacher. We needed to establish respectability after breaking through in 95.
Next year now seems like a another 14th place finish. NU is a tough sell, but at least in the past we could say come be the guy on the team that makes history.
Yes, we got Bam. But while a good recruit he’s all we have right now for that class.
QUOTE="Purple Pile Driver, post: 630522, member: 1478"]Last year was derailed due to a lack of a point guard. You can not win in college basketball without a serviceable point guard. Plain and simple. Blame who you want for this, but Lathon was not CCC’s fault. Blast him for no depth, fine at least that makes a little more sense. However, how many top level PG’s want to come in and back up an established starter at a school like NU? It’s not as simple as snapping your fingers and saying we have a need time to reload when dozens of other schools are trying to land the same guy. It’s no different than a QB in college. The narrative is already out there for everyone that we will have sucked 3 years in a row. Have at it, but it doesn’t change the reality of what the most important thing is for next year. development development development.
Personally, I don’t care if we finish 12th or some other crappy lower division versus 14th. It’s about getting back to being competitive for the tourney on an annual basis. Look at the Fighting Undies, worst team in the Big Ten the first half of the year and now next year being projected as a top 25 team. Even their fans could see last year wasn’t about wins/losses as it was about development. There is no reason NU next year can’t improve as the season progresses like the Undies did last year.
I am not seeing huge talents in these grad transfers and I haven’t seen any that make me upset that NU didn’t land them. Fitz said last week that he doesn’t recruit guys that he can’t see competing for a starting spot in 2 years. Should be the same in B Ball. Give me another spot for a coming year, rather than being stuck with a guy for two years that is a role player at best.[/QUOTE]
This is very logical.
A low D1 body would have been better than no body at all.
Ultimately, any optimism for 2021 — 2020 is a wash before it starts — is wholly contingent on whether at least 2 among Nance, Buie, Kopp, Beran, Jones or Young look like potential All-B1G guys.
That’s right. And that’s a very tall order in a league as good as this.
Everyone expecting great things in 2020-2021 because of the recruiting rankings seem to forget that pretty much every team in the Big Ten has recruits comparable to Beran, Kopp and Nance. Unprecedented at NU is the norm at MSU, Michigan, Maryland, IU, etc.
Using recruiting ranking logic, we should suck in football every year. Have we ever been in the top half of the conference in football recruiting rankings. It has some bearing but isn’t always the end all be all of predictors. NU is the perfect example in BBall. Who were better players for CCC, Pardom, BMac, Lindsey or Rap, Falzone and Benson?
Why do I think the same people that are so distraught about NU not landing South would take him behind the woodshed once he started playing here? Comparing him to Taylor, who by the way was a MUCH more accomplished transfer. How many have actually watched his highlights and surmise he is a PG ? I don’t see a PG at all. Maybe the kid knows this too, and doesn’t want to polish the bench with his hind end while NU goes through the inevitable growing pains next year.
I don’t know if there a bunch of people expecting “great things” in 2020. I am expecting a competitive team that will beat some good teams, but not by any means be a great team. You are right, NU is not MSU, Mich, Maryland, or IU. There are necessary incremental steps in building a program. Rarely is it a straight line up.
I think the challenge was more about the annual basis comment you made:
"It’s about getting back to being competitive for the tourney on an annual basis."
NU did it once under Collins. The other 5 years NU was not competitive for the NCAA tourney. So being competitive for the NCAA more than one year would be new.
Yup. We've had, what, maybe 4 seasons ever in which we were arguably "competitive" for the tournament?
Ah, the inevitable pivot to football. I’ve been on the record explaining why I believe basketball and football recruiting are very different. Long story short, basketball is much more superstar oriented whereas football you can win with discipline and competitive depth. Occasionally, but not often, that can work in basketball. And you saw that with the tourney season.
I agree about incremental steps. One of those is getting the guys you want, even if they aren’t game-changing players. It would be nice if NU could avoid finishing in last place next year. And I am of the opinion that South would have been a net positive toward achieving that.
But let’s see if Collins is able to fill the remaining scholarship spots.
Yep, I pivoted, but also have you recent NU related examples where the rating services weren’t exactly in the ball.
NU will not finish last next year. We are down, but so is the majority of the BT. It will be much weaker next year. Have you seen Nebraska’s roster? Finishing 11th instead of 14th doesn’t get me giddy.
My view, is different than many here. I really don’t care too much about the transfers. Yes, we are recruiting bodies and having no one puts you at a risk from going from bad to dreadful. I just can’t get worked up on misses of guys that weren’t exactly tearing up their smaller conference.
I hear you on not being pumped to go from 14th to 11th. But I wonder how much incrementally harder it is to recruit coming off a 4-14 season vs a 8 -10 season.
I don't know the answer.
But I'm GUESSING that on balance recruits would rather be the guy that gets a team over the hump than to simply take a team from "dumpster fire" (4-14) to "meh" (7-11 or 8-10).
And if South was worth 3 or 4 Big 10 wins then it's a disappoint for me.
I don't know the answer.
But I'm GUESSING that on balance recruits would rather be the guy that gets a team over the hump than to simply take a team from "dumpster fire" (4-14) to "meh" (7-11 or 8-10).
And if South was worth 3 or 4 Big 10 wins then it's a disappoint for me.
I wish I shared your confidence. Haywood implied in the other thread that it looks like Turner may be the starting point guard again this year, which does not inspire much confidence from me. I think we learned last year that a PG-less system doesn’t work too well, especially late in games. Oh yeah, and we have two entirely unproven big men.
I’ll feel better about the future if and when I see a more complete 2020 class. It currently doesn’t appear that any of the Plan A guys are going to be joining Bam, which is...concerning.
I would agree that I am more concerned with the 2020 class, but it is still early. Transfers, don’t get me too stoked unless their name is Hunter.
Unless you're one of the 4 or 5 programs that win every year, it's hard to win consistently. Add in the very thin history of success in reaching the postseason, the hurdle of admissions, and the academic workload once you start going to school at NU, and it's kind of a small miracle that Collins and his staff have gotten some of the players that they have. I think we're seeing how hard it is with those obstacles, the challenges of building a roster with depth to compete in the Big Ten. I think after the Vasser situation, he is likely hesitant to reach on guys that he maybe doesn't think can help them compete in the conference, but don't have any knowledge of that. That CCC understands all of the other stuff that comes with this job, and we don't hear that he's sniffing around at other job opportunities, I think that's pretty good, regardless of what anybody thinks of the job that he's doing. At the end of the day, this is still one of the hardest, if not the hardest Power 5 program to have success at.
Depends who you mean by top 4 or 5.
In the B1G, put MSU and UM there.
In the last 10 years,
OSU has averaged 26 wins
Wisconsin has averaged 25 wins
Purdue has averaged 24 wins
Maryland has averaged 24 wins
Indiana has averaged 20 wins
Minnesota has averaged 19 wins
Illinois has averaged 18
Iowa has averaged 16 wins
NU has averaged 17 wins
So actually just about everyone in power conferences averages a winning season, including NU.....
Can say with a high degree of confidence that South was not worth 3 or 4 BIG wins...
Our 2020 class is already currently ranked 25th in the nation with just one player, so we are faring a lot better than many other teams thus far...
Uh Haywood said that Turner might start out at point. which makes sense if you're breaking in a true freshman PG. BIG difference than saying Turner IS the starting PG...
Win at a level consistent with the happiness of their fan base, or in the case of NU, be in contention for an NCAA bid every year.
CCC and staff have to be extremely cautious about this stuff. There could have been multiple kids like freeman, and its not a good look for NU or the kid.