Springfield
- Thread starter NJCat
- Start date
This is nothing. You should see the "I PREDICT" thread on The Rock right now. A couple people have been arguing for about 100 posts pretty much saying the exact same thing over and over again.
And the hilarious part is that there's virtually no dispute on the facts. It's entirely a semantics argument.
Please spell out exactly what I have written that you find so polarizing.
And don't pull it from your failed memory.
Post the exact comments that have you so triggered.
I feel sorry for the people I have annoyed by posting information that they don't like.
I don't think Chris Collins wants a 7'1" guy dominating the paint.
Unless he can run the floor and shoot from 3.
It certainly isn't what he prefers.
I can't speak for PPD, but how about this post? No one with any sort of life wants to go digging through old posts to re-hash the specifics of an argument.
You repeatedly bashed Collins' line-up choices, and invoked Nicholson over and over again. That made people (including, regretfully, me) resentful of Nicholson through no fault of his own.
When called out on it by a majority of commenters, instead of the reasonable "Yeah, I probably overdid it on +/- numbers and the Nicholson love, but I still really do have legit issues with Collins' line-up choices," You doubled down on the specifics and turned everything personal. That leads to the worst kind of internet conversation.
The sad thing is that you really do have some good points, and there was absolutely no need for posters, including myself, to jump on Nicholson, who seems like a perfectly decent kid who is doing his best for our beloved Wildcats.
My sentiments exactly. Nothing would make me happier than to see MN transform into the second coming of Luca Garza.
That would make me happy, but I can think of at least a few things that would make me happier.
LOL. That's an awesome thread. A couple of "you do you man" and other futile attempts at ending the thread have gone for naught. Carry on boys!
I don't really have major issues with anything you wrote there except that some of it is overstated.
Yes I criticized Collins for his lineups. Our roster was poorly deployed last year. Thats on him. I don't need to apologize for making an issue of it - pointing out the truth or what I perceive to be the truth.
I said I'd like to see Nicholson play more. Others ran that into the ground, presumably to "get back at me" for insisting that Collins was making a big mistake in not starting Young and Nance together. I have said "Young should be starting with Nance" a lot - because I want NU to win and it is obvious that Nance played better with Young last year than he did with Beran.
Any time somebody counters performance facts with "Collins knows best" I'm going to have a problem with it. My feeling is that there are a handful of close-minded people on here who will not change their opinions no matter what information they receive. I am not one of them.
I think the usual suspects are the ones who turned everything personal. At times, I have felt forced to respond on their level.
Therein lies the problem. Collins sees these guys everyday in practice and has magnitudes of more data than you will ever dream of. Your +/- data is interesting to the casual fan, but you'd better not try to make a living off it.
It's been awhile since I've seen it, but I think someone probably said that in "The Witches of Eastwick."
Ok this is my LAST post in this thread, so go ahead and keep ripping me. I already told you plenty of times that repetitive posts interjecting your minutes argument or Nicholson should be playing into threads that have nothing to do with either topic completely create a scope creep for every basketball discussion. Probably a dozen other posters have told you the same thing. Yet you seem to be oblivious to the whole thing or are in a state of denial. Do you ever step back and wonder why others can either make a similar argument or support some of your data and don’t face the same backlash as you. It is always someone else that is pathetic or doesn’t understand. Yep never you!
I am not going to waste my time cutting and pasting some of your nonsense. However, just in this thread, you accused me of interjecting Nicholson when I was in the fact the 4th person commenting and it was an innocent question asking how Matt looked after the game thread said he was playing. I couldn’t make the game due to work and the early start. Others said he is a work in progress. Yet, you double down say people think Matt is the Devil and accuse me and Coral of being Nicholson haters. Of course, this is ridiculous and no one every said that and I certainly wish Nicholson nothing but success despite knowing you will fall back on your credo that CCC was or is misusing him for as long as CCC is here.
You drew first blood from the start, so your woe is me approach doesn’t exactly elicit empathy.
To me that mindset is too trusting - it makes everything really easy, because it is intended to shut off debate, but you end up blaming the players for everything that goes wrong. I disagree with that philosophy 100%. When the coach is choosing who is on the floor, he primarily determines what is most likely to happen.
Obviously Collins sees them all the time in practice, but practice is not the same as a game. It is our players against our players and that tends to re-inforce previous notions. What matters most is performance against other teams in games - where there are different players with different strengths and weaknesses - and that visual information is available to everybody.
On the other hand, the data is unbiased and contains information that is not readily apparent, even to those who are watching the game closely.
Yes you have created some fallacies and keep repeating them.
I will concede that.
You devote paragraphs to attacking me personally.
I will concede that too.
But it is pretty laughable that you'd blame me for the bile you post in response to my comments.
.
That’s the mindset you have with a new coach, manager, politician, etc. You give them the benefit of the doubt because they know stuff you don’t.
That is until they start disappointing you. Once, twice, over and over again. Believing blindly in anyone is assuming every leader is very competent. And that’s just not true. I actually believe myself most leaders are mediocre. They’re not more than fillers.
Not that it applies, but in the extreme, blind faith is a cult.
To think we are now even mentioning the word “cult” here is just one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. And that is directly because PWB ad nauseum has stated that his facts are omniscient and indisputable, with no room for judgement, and Gato has supported him every step along the way, despite all arguments otherwise. Just wrong. The only indisputable fact here is that PWB has alienated a majority of the board with this closed-minded and irritatingly repetitive approach.
No one believes Collins is perfect. But he is as good or better than anyone in our history and sure as hell is trending up right now.
No one believes Collins is perfect. But he is as good or better than anyone in our history and sure as hell is trending up right now.
Hey, you know, the good news is soon we'll see him in Big Ten play and have direct comparison with Benson!
At least you put a paragraph break between these sentences. Otherwise, one might think you lacked self-awareness. That first one is a logic pretzel that you need some cheese dip with for sure.
You are misrepresenting my words. I clearly said it does not apply, and mentioned it in order to illustrate the dangers of blind faith. Interpret it as you want, but picking it out of context makes you sound like a politician. I play the game of arguments and not the game of pretending to be outraged.
I 100% agree with PWB on the Young/Nance thing and that MN should have played a few minutes last year and into this year. I could not care less how many times +/- are posted, just like I don’t care how many more times Collins vs Carmody comes up, and believe most who do care it’s because it contradicts their beliefs. Otherwise they’d ignore it.
On the other hand I have, on occasion, disagreed with him. That’s normal. I am not following factions here.
Finally, I am not right or wrong. I have opinions. Ultimately the only thing that can come close to prove or disprove anything that is said here is wins and losses. And even that is highly disputed.
Gordie:
In the Christmas spirit, I'll just ignore the attack on me, other than to say that facts are indisputable. If Audige scored 12 points, he scored 12 points. If he had a +6 for the game, he had a +6 for the game.
When I say "that leads me to believe Audige played well" thats me stating my opinion. You can disagree with my opinion. I am as far from closed-minded as you're going to find. I let the facts lead me. My "problem" is that I state my opinion and try to back it up.
As for Gato - he was here before me. When I post stuff he agrees with, he sometimes says so. When I post stuff he disagrees with, he sometimes says so. His posts on basketball are the most valuable stuff on this board, no offense to others who hold themselves in high regard.
Your objection to his use of the word "cult" is quite lame. His statement was far from ridiculous - you might even say it is true. And somehow you blame that on me!
Not that it applies…but you put it in the same sentence. That’s not me taking it out of context. And you very much do care; just look at all of your posts and all of the number of likes you post after PWB’s comments. Those “occasions” of disagreeing with him are few and far between.
I don't know if that is true or not but I like Gato's tag line at the bottom:
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I laugh when I read it cuz it's so true.
I also love the one about "what do I have to do to get Fitzphile to like me" I laugh at that too.
Some people are so creative!
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