State Championship Bracket (Wk3)

[IHSAfan207]

I believe one potential solution to help alleviate the yearly post season debates is for the IHSA to create a State Championship bracket to crown 1 true state champion, all the rest go to the normal Class XX Championships. Top 16 Teams in the State picked by a committee of former coaches and current/former press members. For this experiment I am going to use the Massie Football Rankings, I let the first 2 weeks settle to give algorithm a more accurate data feed of a top 16 this season. Week 1 Bye for all teams. Neutral middle site for any travel more than 2.5 hours, gate to home team. Any team can opt out to class championship once every 4 selections after 1st appearance.

(16) St Charles North vs (1) East St Louis

(15) Glenbard North vs (2) Mt Carmel

(14) St Rita vs (3) Loyola

(13) IC vs (4) Lincoln-Way East

(12) DGN vs (5) Brother Rice

(11) Providence vs (6) Lyons

(10) HF vs (7) Fenwick

(9) Oswego vs (8) Fremd


Not sure about anyone else, but this would be some great must-see football games and bracket.

Curious your thoughts/comments…

 

[godfthr53]

Then you'll just get "We didn't win the championship bracket but we would've definitely won Class 7"

 

[IHSAfan207]

Then you'll just get "We didn't win the championship bracket but we would've definitely won Class 7"

Definitely some parents and coaches would complain. The counter would be if you don't want to prove you are the best and are selected next year you can use your opt out.

I would be willing to bet the players would a want to a shot at the crown.

 

[Doctor_D]

Seems like we have a version of this thread posted every year.

Any team can currently can petition upwards all the way to 8A. In theory, if all the top ranked teams petitioned to 8A, then we would have this theoretical Best of the Best tournament. The only caveat would be that it would still be subject to IHSA seeding and hosting rules.

A very small number of teams have exercised this option to play up that has been available for years.

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

The current system is the best system.

I would just change it back to 6 classes at 32 teams per bracket.

If more teams want to play in the playoffs or if the system wants to make more playoff $$$ like you know they want to do then give them their own separate NIT Tournament.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Then you'll just get "We didn't win the championship bracket but we would've definitely won Class 7"

I think the more frequent whine would be "We would have won our class if XYZ school had been in the championship bracket where they belong."

 

[Carmine Evergreen]

The current system is the best system.

I would just change it back to 6 classes at 32 teams per bracket.

Agreed. 6 classes and I would like to see 4A, 5A, 6A seeded 1-32.

 

[IHSAfan207]

Seems like we have a version of this thread posted every year.

Any team can currently can petition upwards all the way to 8A. In theory, if all the top ranked teams petitioned to 8A, then we would have this theoretical Best of the Best tournament. The only caveat would be that it would still be subject to IHSA seeding and hosting rules.

Seems like we have a version of this thread posted every year.

Any team can currently can petition upwards all the way to 8A. In theory, if all the top ranked teams petitioned to 8A, then we would have this theoretical Best of the Best tournament. The only caveat would be that it would still be subject to IHSA seeding and hosting rules.

A very small number of teams have exercised this option to play up that has been available for years.

First, appreciate your response.

If this is something we find ourselves discussing year after year, I think that’s a strong indication that something isn’t working and it might be time for some change.

Realistically, I don’t see many coaches who have the opportunity to compete in 3A voluntarily petitioning up to 8A, especially when their chances of winning hardware statistically speaking are significantly better at 3A. Sure there are a few outliers but not many. Why, because some conferences won’t allow it. The current rules allow for some teams to slide up and down while others are stagnant based on one rule only, it makes no sense.

My thought is that this type of change could also help shift the culture. Where programs genuinely want to compete against the best and want to earn the distinction of being the best in State without any doubt and not stuck in a (now with new IHSA playoff rules) very water down class brackets.

Ultimately, the goal should be best vs. best, regardless of conference or classification boundaries or any other antiquated rule. This proposal could provide a mechanism to override those limitations and give the strongest programs the opportunity to compete against one another. It also has the built in flexibility with opt outs for any team not ready for the challenge.

Admittedly It will not solve everything, but I think it would be a meaningful step toward creating a culture that rewards competing at the highest level, The opt out would be there for any program that feels it can’t or doesn’t want to compete vs the best in State. Again, ask the players and they will almost certainly tell you they want to compete with chance to be crowned the best. If the culture changes, teams and players would want nothing more than to bein this bracket. The class brackets would become the NIT version.

Last year, I heard a lot about how an East St. Louis and. Mt Carmel, but because of the current system and rules they could not meet in the playoffs, we got a small taste of what that if could look like when the played in week 1, nothing shy of a great football game.

But who knows? Maybe Fenwick, who got hot at exactly the right time, would have had something to say about it and would have ridden that momentum all the way to being crowned the best team in the state. Maybe Montini, with a 5-star quarterback, would have rolled through everyone. Point is we will never know. (My money is on Fenwick would have run the tables last year by the way they were playing, but no matter what anyone says, we will never know).

Unfortunately, as it stands now, it’s nothing but speculation. However strongly someone feels about it, we can never truly know who the best team in the state was last season because those teams never had the opportunity to settle it on the field.

The point I’m trying to make. Instead of debating opinions about who would of could of won, why not create a system that gives the best teams the opportunity to prove it on the field? Makes zero sense to me not to give these players the opportunity.

 

[Doctor_D]

First, appreciate your response.

If this is something we find ourselves discussing year after year, I think that’s a strong indication that something isn’t working and it might be time for some change.

Realistically, I don’t see many coaches who have the opportunity to compete in 3A voluntarily petitioning up to 8A, especially when their chances of winning hardware statistically speaking are significantly better at 3A. Sure there are a few outliers but not many. Why, because some conferences won’t allow it. The current rules allow for some teams to slide up and down while others are stagnant based on one rule only, it makes no sense.

My thought is that this type of change could also help shift the culture. Where programs genuinely want to compete against the best and want to earn the distinction of being the best in State without any doubt and not stuck in a (now with new IHSA playoff rules) very water down class brackets.

Ultimately, the goal should be best vs. best, regardless of conference or classification boundaries or any other antiquated rule. This proposal could provide a mechanism to override those limitations and give the strongest programs the opportunity to compete against one another. It also has the built in flexibility with opt outs for any team not ready for the challenge.

Admittedly It will not solve everything, but I think it would be a meaningful step toward creating a culture that rewards competing at the highest level, The opt out would be there for any program that feels it can’t or doesn’t want to compete vs the best in State. Again, ask the players and they will almost certainly tell you they want to compete with chance to be crowned the best. If the culture changes, teams and players would want nothing more than to bein this bracket. The class brackets would become the NIT version.

Last year, I heard a lot about how an East St. Louis and. Mt Carmel, but because of the current system and rules they could not meet in the playoffs, we got a small taste of what that if could look like when the played in week 1, nothing shy of a great football game.

But who knows? Maybe Fenwick, who got hot at exactly the right time, would have had something to say about it and would have ridden that momentum all the way to being crowned the best team in the state. Maybe Montini, with a 5-star quarterback, would have rolled through everyone. Point is we will never know. (My money is on Fenwick would have run the tables last year by the way they were playing, but no matter what anyone says, we will never know).

Unfortunately, as it stands now, it’s nothing but speculation. However strongly someone feels about it, we can never truly know who the best team in the state was last season because those teams never had the opportunity to settle it on the field.

The point I’m trying to make. Instead of debating opinions about who would have could have won, why not create a system that gives the best teams the opportunity to prove it on the field? Makes zero sense to me not to give these players the opportunity.

I think most fans agree that it is a fascinating idea, but it is still a pipe dream that I don’t think will ever come to realization. I know that other states (Arizona) have an “open” class regardless of enrollment, but I’m not sure if teams can opt out.

The CCL by far would have the most teams in this hypothetical top class. Would the CCL want to give up the opportunity when they have a decent chance every year to win every division from 3A through 8A?

 

[4Afan]

First, appreciate your response.

If this is something we find ourselves discussing year after year, I think that’s a strong indication that something isn’t working and it might be time for some change.

Realistically, I don’t see many coaches who have the opportunity to compete in 3A voluntarily petitioning up to 8A, especially when their chances of winning hardware statistically speaking are significantly better at 3A. Sure there are a few outliers but not many. Why, because some conferences won’t allow it. The current rules allow for some teams to slide up and down while others are stagnant based on one rule only, it makes no sense.

My thought is that this type of change could also help shift the culture. Where programs genuinely want to compete against the best and want to earn the distinction of being the best in State without any doubt and not stuck in a (now with new IHSA playoff rules) very water down class brackets.

Ultimately, the goal should be best vs. best, regardless of conference or classification boundaries or any other antiquated rule. This proposal could provide a mechanism to override those limitations and give the strongest programs the opportunity to compete against one another. It also has the built in flexibility with opt outs for any team not ready for the challenge.

Admittedly It will not solve everything, but I think it would be a meaningful step toward creating a culture that rewards competing at the highest level, The opt out would be there for any program that feels it can’t or doesn’t want to compete vs the best in State. Again, ask the players and they will almost certainly tell you they want to compete with chance to be crowned the best. If the culture changes, teams and players would want nothing more than to bein this bracket. The class brackets would become the NIT version.

Last year, I heard a lot about how an East St. Louis and. Mt Carmel, but because of the current system and rules they could not meet in the playoffs, we got a small taste of what that if could look like when the played in week 1, nothing shy of a great football game.

But who knows? Maybe Fenwick, who got hot at exactly the right time, would have had something to say about it and would have ridden that momentum all the way to being crowned the best team in the state. Maybe Montini, with a 5-star quarterback, would have rolled through everyone. Point is we will never know. (My money is on Fenwick would have run the tables last year by the way they were playing, but no matter what anyone says, we will never know).

Unfortunately, as it stands now, it’s nothing but speculation. However strongly someone feels about it, we can never truly know who the best team in the state was last season because those teams never had the opportunity to settle it on the field.

The point I’m trying to make. Instead of debating opinions about who would of could of won, why not create a system that gives the best teams the opportunity to prove it on the field? Makes zero sense to me not to give these players the opportunity.

Won't ever happen. Nothing stops teams from petitioning up now but no one other than ESL regularly does. Montini could move up from 4A, BR could move up from 7A, LeWin could move up from 1A, Wilmington could move up from 2A. No one does because, even though we the fans want to see what you're talking about the coaches and AD's care more about stacking trophies to keep parents, boosters, admin, and fans happy.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

I think most fans agree that it is a fascinating idea, but it is still a pipe dream that I don’t think will ever come to realization. I know that other states (Arizona) have an “open” class regardless of enrollment, but I’m not sure if teams can opt out.

The CCL by far would have the most teams in this hypothetical top class. Would the CCL want to give up the opportunity when they have a decent chance every year to win every division from 3A through 8A?

I think there would be a handful of CCL programs that would give up the opportunity for an NIT type of title for a shot at winning a best of the best title.

 

[4Afan]

I think there would be a handful of CCL programs that would give up the opportunity for an NIT type of title for a shot at winning a best of the best title.

Then why haven't they done it? Even when MC was 7A they never petitioned up.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Won't ever happen. Nothing stops teams from petitioning up now but no one other than ESL regularly does. Montini could move up from 4A, BR could move up from 7A, LeWin could move up from 1A, Wilmington could move up from 2A. No one does because, even though we the fans want to see what you're talking about the coaches and AD's care more about stacking trophies to keep parents, boosters, admin, and fans happy.

I agree that it won't ever happen, but I disagree with your rationale as to why.

You state that nothing stops teams from petitioning up now as the reason why most teams wouldn't want to move up for a best of the best type of title.

The issue I have with that rationale is that it is attempting to compare apples and oranges. It's one thing to move up to the larger enrollment class, and it's another to move up to a best of the best class regardless of enrollment.

I could see current 8A schools like LA, MC, LWE, MS, and perhaps a few others opting in regularly. I could see non-8A schools like ESL, BR, PC, JCA, Naz, etc. taking a shot at it either regularly or from time to time. Then there could be a handful of randoms that might want a chance at a best of the best title now and then.

Obviously, it couldn't be a 32-team field, and I think that's okay. Fewer rounds in a best of the best class might even be attractive to some super competitive schools not to have to risk injury while beating up on much weaker opponents in rounds one and two of a five round playoff series.

Why do I think won't it happen? Because the IHSA is more interested in catering to its small and medium sized school membership base who are content with the status quo than it is in advancing the cause of extraordinary athletic excellence. Those schools won't vote for anything that would in any way diminish the stature of their precious enrollment-based class titles. And, of course, there is this gem from their IHSA board approved policies about playoffs: "The State Series is not intended to necessarily advance the best teams in the state to the State Final." Makes me want to puke every time I read that one.

 

[Cross Bones]

I think there would be a handful of CCL programs that would give up the opportunity for an NIT type of title for a shot at winning a best of the best title.

Not even 1.

 

[4Afan]

I agree that it won't ever happen, but I disagree with your rationale as to why.

You state that nothing stops teams from petitioning up now as the reason why most teams wouldn't want to move up for a best of the best type of title.

The issue I have with that rationale is that it is attempting to compare apples and oranges. It's one thing to move up to the larger enrollment class, and it's another to move up to a best of the best class regardless of enrollment.

I could see current 8A schools like LA, MC, LWE, MS, and perhaps a few others opting in regularly. I could see non-8A schools like ESL, BR, PC, JCA, Naz, etc. taking a shot at it either regularly or from time to time. Then there could be a handful of randoms that might want a chance at a best of the best title now and then.

Obviously, it couldn't be a 32-team field, and I think that's okay. Fewer rounds in a best of the best class might even be attractive to some super competitive schools not to have to risk injury while beating up on much weaker opponents in rounds one and two of a five round playoff series.

Why do I think won't it happen? Because the IHSA is more interested in catering to its small and medium sized school membership base who are content with the status quo than it is in advancing the cause of extraordinary athletic excellence. Those schools won't vote for anything that would in any way diminish the stature of their precious enrollment-based class titles. And, of course, there is this gem from their IHSA board approved policies about playoffs: "The State Series is not intended to necessarily advance the best teams in the state to the State Final." Makes me want to puke every time I read that one.

Your argument falls apart with schools like Montini.

BR could also petition up to 8A to challenge MC. Larger schools are also very content with the current status quo.

Naz has won 7A when forced up, proving they can do it, but has never voluntarily challenged themselves.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Not even 1.

Neither of us know for sure. It really doesn't matter because the whole thing is a hypothetical that will never happen,

But, speaking hypothetically, I think that much would depend on the packaging of a best of the best class. If it were done right (which it probably wouldn't be because the IHSA would be invloved), I think that you might be surprised how many programs would opt in.

 

[IHSAfan207]

Won't ever happen. Nothing stops teams from petitioning up now but no one other than ESL regularly does. Montini could move up from 4A, BR could move up from 7A, LeWin could move up from 1A, Wilmington could move up from 2A. No one does because, even though we the fans want to see what you're talking about the coaches and AD's care more about stacking trophies to keep parents, boosters, admin, and fans happy.

I don't disagree. I could be wrong but I thought there was some obscure rule that teams cant petition up more then 2 classes?

I guess my point is if the IHSA made the Championship Bracket a bylaw , schools wouldn't have choice and hopefully it would become desired regardless of conference. From a spectator with no horse in the race, its frustrating to see teams like Montini 4A (multiplied) play teams like Marist (8A) in the regular season, compete and even win, but come playoff time lslide down to 4A because of some rule that no doubt needs adjustment. But a team like West Chicago who has made the playoffs exactly twice (and got their you know what pushed in) since the expansion to 8 classes is stuck in 7A/8A by that same rule. I can make a great argument WC couldn't get past first round in 5A. It just boggles my mind that the adults in the rooms cant or wont come up with sensible competitive rules.

And thanks to everyone who replied. I know this is discussed yearly, and some of you old timers are sick of it knowing little or no change will be made. Maybe I am just more aware now, but I feel more and more average fans are talking about it lately. Maybe the CFB Playoff has some sort of influence on this.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Your argument falls apart with schools like Montini.

BR could also petition up to 8A to challenge MC. Larger schools are also very content with the current status quo.

Naz has won 7A when forced up, proving they can do it, but has never voluntarily challenged themselves.

Did you read what I wrote? You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[4Afan]

Did you read what I wrote? You are comparing apples and oranges.

How? You want competitive balance and teams petitioning up would create that. The path is there, no school chooses to take it.

 

[Cross Bones]

Neither of us know for sure. It really doesn't matter because the whole thing is a hypothetical that will never happen,

But, speaking hypothetically, I think that much would depend on the packaging of a best of the best class. If it were done right (which it probably wouldn't be because the IHSA would be invloved), I think that you might be surprised how many programs would opt in.

I know for sure based on the way the same schools do everything they can to avoid competition. The only school, public or private that Im convinced would voluntarily join is ESL. The 8A publics Im agnostic on since they have nothing to petition up to. Also agnostic on Loyola for the same reason. But everyone else...

 

[ramblinman reborn]

How? You want competitive balance and teams petitioning up would create that. The path is there, no school chooses to take it.

Very few schools are petitioning up recently to a higher enrollment-based class. That does not necessarily mean that situation would remain the same if there were a best of the best class regardless of enrollment.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

How many years has Saint Rita petitioned up to 7A...just saying.

 

[cornerrat#1]

I don't disagree. I could be wrong but I thought there was some obscure rule that teams cant petition up more then 2 classes?

I guess my point is if the IHSA made the Championship Bracket a bylaw , schools wouldn't have choice and hopefully it would become desired regardless of conference. From a spectator with no horse in the race, its frustrating to see teams like Montini 4A (multiplied) play teams like Marist (8A) in the regular season, compete and even win, but come playoff time lslide down to 4A because of some rule that no doubt needs adjustment. But a team like West Chicago who has made the playoffs exactly twice (and got their you know what pushed in) since the expansion to 8 classes is stuck in 7A/8A by that same rule. I can make a great argument WC couldn't get past first round in 5A. It just boggles my mind that the adults in the rooms cant or wont come up with sensible competitive rules.

And thanks to everyone who replied. I know this is discussed yearly, and some of you old timers are sick of it knowing little or no change will be made. Maybe I am just more aware now, but I feel more and more average fans are talking about it lately. Maybe the CFB Playoff has some sort of influence on this.

All.... Playing large teams in the regular season had a rule years ago to deal with that situation. The FBE rule. I believe it came about because of Bellevlle Althoff. Crusader would know. Football enrollment was detemined by throwing out the smallest and largest teams played by a school and then averaging the remaining seven to come up with a number. The application of this was geared more to private schools then public ones.

It was dropped when a couple of public schools that happened to get caught up in a larger based enrollment complained. I could be mistaken on the timeline as FBE went away the multiplier was put into place as well. Ratsy

 

[ramblinman reborn]

I know for sure based on the way the same schools do everything they can to avoid competition. The only school, public or private that Im convinced would voluntarily join is ESL. The 8A publics Im agnostic on since they have nothing to petition up to. Also agnostic on Loyola for the same reason. But everyone else...

The same schools? What same schools? None of the ones I mentioned in my earlier post about some possible schools that would be interested in a best of the best class could be accused of doing everything they can to avoid competition. I know you have the hots for Montini when it comes to this, but I didn't mention them.

There are SOME schools that do NOT do everything they can to avoid competition. Indeed, SOME schools go out of their way to find it. Look at LWE, Rice, MC and ESL as four examples of schools that scheduled tough non-conference competition in the first two weeks of the season. Want more? PC, JCA, Rochester, Batavia, and MS. I'm sure there would be more if I took the time to look.

As for Loyola, you shouldn't be agnostic about them. It is my understanding they have a standing petition to play up if the IHSA classifies them in 7A (which they have in recent years).

AND, it isn't just ESL and Loyola. Antioch(!) has recently petitioned to play up. So have Rita, Peoria Manual, IC and Phillips.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

How many years has Saint Rita petitioned up to 7A...just saying.

This one and the previous three years.

 

[Cross Bones]

The same schools? What same schools? None of the ones I mentioned in my earlier post about some possible schools that would be interested in a best of the best class could be accused of doing everything they can to avoid competition. I know you have the hots for Montini when it comes to this, but I didn't mention them.

There are SOME schools that do NOT do everything they can to avoid competition. Indeed, SOME schools go out of their way to find it. Look at LWE, Rice, MC and ESL as four examples of schools that scheduled tough non-conference competition in the first two weeks of the season. Want more? PC, JCA, Rochester, Batavia, and MS. I'm sure there would be more if I took the time to look.

As for Loyola, you shouldn't be agnostic about them. It is my understanding they have a standing petition to play up if the IHSA classifies them in 7A (which they have in recent years).

AND, it isn't just ESL and Loyola. Antioch(!) has recently petitioned to play up. So have Rita, Peoria Manual, IC and Phillips.

Its not just Montini. The larger schools were already mentioned by someone else. MC was winning 3 consecutive 7A trophies while Loyola was winning 3 8As. I've been criticizing schools who were able to compete with the top/largest schools in the state winning championships against Roxana and such. I dont ever recall hearing about them going to the IHSA to do something about it like they did with the multiplier. And to be clear I also think its about time for Rochester to pony up too.

Honestly I dont even like the open class idea bc I dont think there is a reasonable way implement it. I hate people's "eye test" and the only idea worse than that is various algorithm based ratings.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Its not just Montini. The larger schools were already mentioned by someone else. MC was winning 3 consecutive 7A trophies while Loyola was winning 3 8As. I've been criticizing schools who were able to compete with the top/largest schools in the state winning championships against Roxana and such. I dont ever recall hearing about them going to the IHSA to do something about it like they did with the multiplier. And to be clear I also think its about time for Rochester to pony up too.

Honestly I dont even like the open class idea bc I dont think there is a reasonable way implement it. I hate people's "eye test" and the only idea worse than that is various algorithm based ratings.

The Shells haven't lost to a private school in the playoffs in over a decade...

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Its not just Montini. The larger schools were already mentioned by someone else. MC was winning 3 consecutive 7A trophies while Loyola was winning 3 8As. I've been criticizing schools who were able to compete with the top/largest schools in the state winning championships against Roxana and such. I dont ever recall hearing about them going to the IHSA to do something about it like they did with the multiplier. And to be clear I also think its about time for Rochester to pony up too.

Honestly I dont even like the open class idea bc I dont think there is a reasonable way implement it. I hate people's "eye test" and the only idea worse than that is various algorithm based ratings.

Schools that petition to play up should be admired, but those that choose to play where the IHSA places them should not be criticized for doing so -- especially those that are success factored up or are multiplied up into a class higher than their actual enrollment.

 

[Cross Bones]

The Shells haven't lost to a private school in the playoffs in over a decade...

Is that Roxana? Yeah these debates go back to when only Wheaton South was on turf.

 

[USD24]

Is that Roxana? Yeah these debates go back to when only Wheaton South was on turf.

If memory serves, the Shells lost to PC in their first state championship my senior year.......and that was a long time ago!!

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

I think most fans agree that it is a fascinating idea, but it is still a pipe dream that I don’t think will ever come to realization. I know that other states (Arizona) have an “open” class regardless of enrollment, but I’m not sure if teams can opt out.

The CCL by far would have the most teams in this hypothetical top class. Would the CCL want to give up the opportunity when they have a decent chance every year to win every division from 3A through 8A?

I see no world where this could exist..,

 

[Caravan92]

How many years has Saint Rita petitioned up to 7A...just saying.

And how did that work out for them?
In 2022 and 2024, Saint Rita went 10-3, with two of those losses coming against Mount Carmel, the latter ending their season. In 2023, they got a bad draw and had to face Mount Carmel in the first round, which again ended their season. In 2023 and 2024 there were no CCL teams in 6A.
Several posters keep asking, “Why didn’t Mount Carmel, Brother Rice, Fenwick, etc. petition up?” Why would they? I’d argue the CCL’s two-year realignment already does a pretty good job of creating competitive balance, with teams moved between divisions primarily based on their records with enrollment taken into consideration.
The top teams play each other in the Blue Division, and when you add the two interdivision games and rivalry games, there’s not much left to argue about who the top team in the CCL is.
Regardless of whether you won or lost those games, why would you move up a class just to potentially play a team you’ve already played during the regular season? The games have already been played. You already have a pretty damn good idea of who is better.
That’s the part I don’t understand about petitioning up. Why move classes to play a team you already had the opportunity to beat during the regular season?

 

[Cross Bones]

Schools that petition to play up should be admired, but those that choose to play where the IHSA places them should not be criticized for doing so -- especially those that are success factored up or are multiplied up into a class higher than their actual enrollment.

So they wont work to fix an imbalance that favors them but will work against someone else addressing that imbalance. Youre proving the point. Absolutely zero will volunteer to play better competition. Its a good talking point when the supporters claim they want the competition, but when the rubber meets the road we both know its a lie.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

So they wont work to fix an imbalance that favors them but will work against someone else addressing that imbalance.

What are you talking about?

Absolutely zero will volunteer to play better competition.

And you are certain of that because...?

The way I see it, a number of schools are already volunteering to play better competition in an enrollment-based class system. Add in the element of competing among the best of the best, and it might draw even more schools to opt in.

Its a good talking point when the supporters claim they want the competition, but when the rubber meets the road we both know its a lie.

Let me ask you this: IF it could work, would you be in favor of it? That's all we are talking about here. It is a pure hypothetical. Would you be in favor of it? Yes or no.

 

[Cross Bones]

What are you talking about?

And you are certain of that because...?

The way I see it, a number of schools are already volunteering to play better competition in an enrollment-based class system. Add in the element of competing among the best of the best, and it might draw even more schools to opt in.

Let me ask you this: IF it could work, would you be in favor of it? That's all we are talking about here. It is a pure hypothetical. Would you be in favor of it? Yes or no.

"IF" is doing a lot of work here. I am against it because it's fundamentally flawed as an idea. Now if we just had 1 playoff class with all the teams in it that would be different. But what would be the point of that?

The idea is born out of the fact that we have teams that very clearly shouldnt be playing in the class theyre in and we want to see how they would fare against proper competition. Theres an easier way to do that than randomly selecting 16 teams. And that wouldn't even answer the question of who the best is.

So, no.

 

[jha618]

I think there would be a handful of CCL programs that would give up the opportunity for an NIT type of title for a shot at winning a best of the best title.

I highly doubt it. Mainly because they don't do it now.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

I highly doubt it. Mainly because they don't do it now.

Again, that's apples and oranges.

There's a difference in not moving up from 7A to 8A and in potentially moving up from 7A or 8A to a best of the best tournament.

 

[jha618]

Again, that's apples and oranges.

There's a difference in moving up from 7A to 8A and in moving up from 7A or 8A to a best of the best tournament.

The "best of the best" bracket would consists of several of the ccl teams you say other ccl teams are avoiding to play currently because they play them in the regular season. There is nothing preventing teams from going and playing those "best of the best" teams now.

 

[Doctor_D]

I think there would be a handful of CCL programs that would give up the opportunity for an NIT type of title for a shot at winning a best of the best title.

I think maybe you an accurate with a “handful” if the hand was involved in a significant injury and loss of some digits.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

The "best of the best" bracket would consists of several of the ccl teams you say other ccl teams are avoiding to play currently because they play them in the regular season. There is nothing preventing teams from going and playing those "best of the best" teams now.

They can absolutely schedule those best of the best teams now. Some of them already are doing that.

But it absolutely wouldn't be in a best of the best state tournament because there is none now.