You don't have to throw the bank at the guy right up front to keep him. If I were Mitch and UK didn't have the money to match Michigan's offer dollar for dollar right out of the gate (and I think we could if the will is there), then I'd offer him the biggest immediate raise I could, be that $50k, $100k, or whatever. But then I'd throw in some extra incentives that would ultimately allow us to match Michigan's offer or even exceed it by way of bonuses for job related performance. Vince is the recruiting coordinator. Why not offer the guy an additional bonus of $50k or even $100k for every Top 20 class he helps sign? Hell, if he can bring in a top 15 or better class, give him even more! It would be money well spent. If there is one thing UK has always struggled with, it is a lack of talent. If this guy can consistently get us a top 20 class, then the results on the field should more than pay for the money invested.
Steve Jones; Marrow Would Like to Meet w/ UK Administration
- Thread starter akaukswoosh
- Start date
If we're going to be serious about football, I don't think the AD has a choice.
This could of be a perfect storm of bad news:
Marrow, Lewis and Lewis.
Let's get thing thing pointed in the right direction and retain CVM.
This could of be a perfect storm of bad news:
Marrow, Lewis and Lewis.
Let's get thing thing pointed in the right direction and retain CVM.
Its tough facing the threat of losing your top recruiter. Many in this thread have talked about paying the market price, the problem is no one in the SEC really knows what the market price is right now. This SEC network money is blowing the lid off coaches salaries. 5 years ago to DC salaries were in the 750-900k range, now the top is at least 1.6 mil with 3 or more making over 1 mil a year, position coaches were in the 250-400k range, and thats what really hasn't settled in yet. Will they command a 200-300K raise or will it be smaller? If the market value ends up being 400k, you can't really pay 700k. You don't want to give him a title with head coach in it because it will kill his recruiting, name him recruiting/running game coordinator or something alone those lines and you can justifiy to the rest of the staff the money.
I find it interesting that VM is wanting to speak to the AD versus going through Stoops. Stoops is his boss - He should tell Stoops what he needs to stay and let him go to the AD if necessary. Unless there is more to it.
Maybe this is true but there was a beat writer with the 49ers that mentioned on ESPN radio last week that this is the third straight job that higher numbers were leaked leading up to his hire then leaked or mentioned afterward that he took less for the good of all (Stanford, San Fran, Mich). Guy said he was able to confirm the numbers initially mentioned at the previous two spots was never on the table in the past and although he hasn't bothered with it for the UM job he assumes it's the same dog and pony. Said it's just a way he tries to send an early message he's about the team over himself even though it's manufactured and BS to a degree. He had a really good in-depth perspective of how things spiraled to the point it got to at San Fran.
In most every business the most important man and the highest paid man, excluding the CEO's, are the sales people. If sales aren't made then the production of the product becomes unnecessary. It's the same thing in sports. In a rebuilding and growing program the lead sales person is the most valuable. Football is big business - we don't want or need to be extorted by anyone, but we also need to step up and show our "salesman" he is wanted and appreciated!
Calipari makes more than double the last few coaches made at UK - why? You say he gets results and he is a good coach. However, why has he become such a great coach? He is a fantastic salesman! He is being paid more to "sell" UK than he is to coach the team. Just think no John Wall, no Anthony Davis and on and on and on and Calipari is a good coach making less than half of what he makes now.
Go Big Blue!
Calipari makes more than double the last few coaches made at UK - why? You say he gets results and he is a good coach. However, why has he become such a great coach? He is a fantastic salesman! He is being paid more to "sell" UK than he is to coach the team. Just think no John Wall, no Anthony Davis and on and on and on and Calipari is a good coach making less than half of what he makes now.
Go Big Blue!
I agree, but I will say that recruiting rankings aren't an exact science. Maybe give him a BIG bonus for every 5 star and slightly smaller bonuses for ever 4 star player that he gets to sign with UK. Something like that could be offered to all of the assistants. That way they all know that if they land the big fish, they will get paid for it.
This post was edited on 1/3 10:05 PM by TJS4UK
One potentially unforeseen problem with either of those approaches is just what constitutes a top 20 class or a 5 star recruit? Which set of rankings do you go by? Heck, you have Rivals, Scout, 24/7 and ESPN all rating recruits these days. There might even be other services. So do you base it on an average or what? It would suck for Vince to land a 5 star based on Scout's system and be expecting his bonus, whereas Mitch is expecting a Rivals 5 star.
Pay him whatever it takes..WHATEVER IT TAKES..football is by far the most popular sport in the nation and it's the sport that is the breadwinner at the University of Kentucky so you better invest in it..pay him WHATEVER IT TAKES..the investment will pay for itself in a short period of time
BBN gonna BBN, some of you are more interested in taking shots at Barnhart than supporting this team. The athletics department has made unprecedented investments into the football program the last few years, $110 million in stadium renovations, new practice fields, and $45 million training facility that can compete with any in the country. Mark Stoops just got a raise (Yall bitched about that) and it was announced at the time that the assistants would be getting raises too. There is no doubt that we would match any Michigan offer.
Eh, I think Vince has more class than to intentionally start a bidding war for his services. If he were some schmuck like Lane Kiffin, then yeah, I'd be worried he might try to pull something like that. But I think Vince is only seeking one counter-offer from UK and if that offer is sufficient, I think that will end this.
Let's not get hung up over our coordinators are making who are unproven at best. Our OC has yet to arrive and shared OC duties in his only D1 stop. Our DC was a position coach two years ago. They may turn out to be great but they are not proven coordinators.
This is a major problem with the team. Unproven and inexperienced coordinators is not a good thing. Inexperienced head coach with a defensive coordinator who was never a coordinator and and offensive coordinator hire who was not calling plays is not good. One would think that Stoops would have more experience on the staff with him. Our defense was beyond horrible the last two years.
just going by what i've read tonight all over the place, he's been offered $100,000 more by UM than he is currently making. i think we bumped him up to over $275,000. so we would be looking at the $400,000 range and im good with that. if we are gonna compete with our betters then we are gonna have to pay what they pay and maybe even more in some cases.
a big argument when vince brought in some of those 4* ohio kids by some of our negative nancy's was that they weren't "fast" enough for the sec. well i just watched ohio st beat bama with a whole bunch of ohio kids and they looked to be about the same speed. a 4.4 is a 4.4 no matter where you grow up. i'll take the upgrade in talent and the swagger vince brings anyday over a any possible replacement. granted we could all be sitting here in 2 years if he does leave and be bragging on our new guy but i know what we got in vince and i like it.
a big argument when vince brought in some of those 4* ohio kids by some of our negative nancy's was that they weren't "fast" enough for the sec. well i just watched ohio st beat bama with a whole bunch of ohio kids and they looked to be about the same speed. a 4.4 is a 4.4 no matter where you grow up. i'll take the upgrade in talent and the swagger vince brings anyday over a any possible replacement. granted we could all be sitting here in 2 years if he does leave and be bragging on our new guy but i know what we got in vince and i like it.
I wish fans held themselves to the same standard as they do others. 10,000 empty seats a game, how serious are y'all?
Fans filled the stadium for years and UK used the football program as their ATM, it's UKs turn to show who is serious. Football fans can always go to soccer and softball games ,a lot better parking and you can go for next to nothing.
This post was edited on 1/4 12:00 AM by optimus-blue
This post was edited on 1/4 12:00 AM by optimus-blue
^^this times infinity. This administration dropped ticket prices for South Carolina to nothing and had to beg fans to come to the game. All this talk about how this is an investment. If the administration does match Michigan, it would be nice for the stands to be filled all next year, and not just waiting for that season in the future after we go to the sugar bowl.
That would hardly solve that potential problem, it's not that simple. Would be like if you were a VP of a company and the assistant VP was making just $1 less than you.
1. UK should definitely pay it's football assistants prevailing market rates, if not more to overcome a bias some might have in favor of leaving.
2. We definitely need to show a serious commitment to football, to overcome the perception that historically we've not been committed.
3. So pay Vince what he's worth, or however much you can to keep him.
4. Having said all that, this conversation tends toward the ridiculous (I.e., " pay him whatever, and if the coordinators complain, pay them more, no matter how much it costs. If we don't do that, someone should be beaten about the face and neck."). I mean, there is a budget to consider, money doesn't grow on trees, etc. etc. Despite being in the SEC, despite the SEC Network, despite having one of the 20 largest athletics budgets in the country, I very much suspect we cannot out pay UM for football staff.
And all of that is beside the real points that matter: i) something like this May not hinge on money, and ii) if he leaves, we may never know the whole story, how much we offered, etc. if he leaves, you cannot simply assume UK went cheap......
2. We definitely need to show a serious commitment to football, to overcome the perception that historically we've not been committed.
3. So pay Vince what he's worth, or however much you can to keep him.
4. Having said all that, this conversation tends toward the ridiculous (I.e., " pay him whatever, and if the coordinators complain, pay them more, no matter how much it costs. If we don't do that, someone should be beaten about the face and neck."). I mean, there is a budget to consider, money doesn't grow on trees, etc. etc. Despite being in the SEC, despite the SEC Network, despite having one of the 20 largest athletics budgets in the country, I very much suspect we cannot out pay UM for football staff.
And all of that is beside the real points that matter: i) something like this May not hinge on money, and ii) if he leaves, we may never know the whole story, how much we offered, etc. if he leaves, you cannot simply assume UK went cheap......
ANYBODY that tries to blame our fans for not showing up to games when our administration allowed our football program to stay in the dungeon of the SEC for 35 years is beyond ridiculous!!!
Do either of you 2 have season tickets? Do either of you donate to the football program or K-Fund? I do and have for the last 25 years, but understand why some would be skeptical and would be in the "put up or shut up" mode.
Ignorant clowns like making ignorant clown posts. I didn't blame the fans, I said fan should hold themselves to the same standard they hold everyone else to. You're clearly too simple to comprehend thats not actually blaming anyone.
I'm a season ticket holder and donate to K fund. If you're a fan showing up and supporting your team is a part of the deal. I'm not talking about out of towners or people who can't afford tickets. I'm talking about all of the above posters who brag about boycotting UK football, who brag about how much better their man caves are than fighting traffic and paying for concessions, then turn around and trash our administration. Be skeptical, don't show up, but leave your toxic attitudes away too.
LOL I have to give you credit for standing by your man in all circumstances, can't wait for Fuzz to jump in.
Well, there won't be a 67,000 average attendance like there was for Mumme's break even season for the next few decades at least, or almost that same number for Brooks one really exciting team that ALMOST broke even in the SEC, since about 6,000 seats were erased for the MONEY. mitch has a LOT of ground to make up, he did NOTHING extra for UK football his first ten years, then replaced the video and audio system twelve years after they were installed when they were designed to last for ten years, and then only out of sheer neccessity------the same reason things are being done now. He wasn't able to raise the money for the $6M or so recruiting room Brooks wanted (I think that DISGRACE is just now being replaced) but AFTER the strike cost UK MORE than the 6 million he was able to raise the $110M for the renovation-------by obligating the athletic department, which couldn't raise the $6M for years, to repay about a $200M bill so athletics could once again pay for academic projects------which isn't a bad thing, but still, he couldn't raise the $6M for all those years? BS.
A lot of those 10,000 empty seats is because he drove away about that many season ticket holders, and just how many empty seats were there for the USC game, I sure didn't see that many.
Over fifty thousand for a spring game and top 25 attendance for years with losing teams says UK football fans are about as good as any in the nation, they are just finally getting smart and demanding more.
There may be things out of his control in this, but I doubt it from all the reports, sounds like to me that Marrow just wants some of the extra money he should have got above the raise and position he would have gotten anyway if he had only ONE two star recruit to his credit.
Have him blow this over the money and see how it goes for your buddy..
LOL, I have to give you credit for standing by and justifying bandwagon fans.
Mitch drove away fans? How did he do that specifically? What did he do to cause you to stop supporting UK football? You won't answer that because putting it in words makes you look extra petty. There's nothing to suggest that we won't match the offer, just a bunch of super sensitive guys who still have their widdle feelings hurt.
Mitch drove away fans? How did he do that specifically? What did he do to cause you to stop supporting UK football? You won't answer that because putting it in words makes you look extra petty. There's nothing to suggest that we won't match the offer, just a bunch of super sensitive guys who still have their widdle feelings hurt.
I think Marrow is gone. Just like Bradley Dale Paveto, the opportunity to showcase his coaching talents is much better.
The SEC spit the bit this bowl season, and the Big10 actually shined. The mythical SEC PiedPiper pipeline catchphrasiology has been neutered, or at least stymied.
Michigan-Harbaugh-Bighouse-Alltime winningest Program is an easy sell to an unbelievable salesman. It will be a 5-star Congaline to Ann Arbor. I won't fault the guy one iota when he splits.
I think this meeting request is VMs classy way of resignation as opposed to a two sentence note on the lockerroom door. He also may be campaigning for his replacement...as he knows his recruiting competition.
For us, the timing couldn't be worse.
The SEC spit the bit this bowl season, and the Big10 actually shined. The mythical SEC PiedPiper pipeline catchphrasiology has been neutered, or at least stymied.
Michigan-Harbaugh-Bighouse-Alltime winningest Program is an easy sell to an unbelievable salesman. It will be a 5-star Congaline to Ann Arbor. I won't fault the guy one iota when he splits.
I think this meeting request is VMs classy way of resignation as opposed to a two sentence note on the lockerroom door. He also may be campaigning for his replacement...as he knows his recruiting competition.
For us, the timing couldn't be worse.
If we pay Vince close to what Michigan offers, then he would be fine, because the cost of living is lower in Kentucky than it is in Michigan. He would also have to uproot his family right in the middle of winter, and lord knows Michigan has some rough winter weather. I think if UK comes close and stresses more money the next few years also, he stays !!
While $ does not grow on trees, the SEC network windfall is a good chunk of change. Again, UK athletics has the money. It's a matter of priorities. If we can't pay the going rate for Football coaches because we choose to pay x to the women's soccer coach, y to the rifle team coach, z to the women's bball coach that's a matter of priorities.
If Football is (and it should be) the priority sport at the U of K, $ is not an issue. Investing in Football will help the soccer, rifle, track teams down the road.
If Football is (and it should be) the priority sport at the U of K, $ is not an issue. Investing in Football will help the soccer, rifle, track teams down the road.
2 years ago Marrow was a Neb grad assistant making what, 15k? I don't begrudge anybody using their talents & skill to make the most money for themselves & their families. If that means a bidding war between 2 participants who want his services, have at it Vince.
Personally I don't think Harbaugh offered him a job and let him walk away to allow UK to better his offer. He does not strike me as the type to sit around passively and wait on others to control his fait. I think Vince turned it down already. This is being drawn out to make Stoops, Marrow, &UK look better. "We are rolling so good Harbaugh & UM wanted our recruiting coordinator, but he is staying to finish making UK a winner!"
And for those too ignorant to know what broke and drove this fan base away, you are not worth educating
Personally I don't think Harbaugh offered him a job and let him walk away to allow UK to better his offer. He does not strike me as the type to sit around passively and wait on others to control his fait. I think Vince turned it down already. This is being drawn out to make Stoops, Marrow, &UK look better. "We are rolling so good Harbaugh & UM wanted our recruiting coordinator, but he is staying to finish making UK a winner!"
And for those too ignorant to know what broke and drove this fan base away, you are not worth educating