Stoops, 4 more years ?

[BigBluePhantom]

Yep. The last few yrs we've come out of the gate well. They weren't as under prepared or poorly coached the first half of the yr. Sure, there were some coaching mistakes that you typically see from a rookie/novice HC, but they weren't grossly unprepared or poorly coached. Did the staff forget how to coach the last half of each of the last 2 yrs? Nope. Something else caused the collapse. It wasn't locker room issues....because this has been decent in the first half of the last few yrs. No, the problem has been lack of depth and lack of team maturity. We didn't field extreme takent across the board that could pull us along. We didn't have a large crop of upperclass leaders to pull everyone along. We had a shallow group of young players. Young players that makes it hard to adjust from scheme to scheme.

You make a very good point. We have seen a similar lack of intestinal fortitude with some of Cal's very young basketball teams. However, they have been able to overcome the lack of upperclassmen leadership and the maturity issues simply because they are all 5 star players. Cal chooses to go that route and if it backfires, thats on him. However, the fact the Stoops has such a young team is not his choice. They aren't leaving after their freshman year. They are just now coming of age. He needs a couple of more years to show what he can really do. That is not what many of us want to hear but it is damn sure better than anything we have seen since at least the Curci years.

 

[UK Cats Rock]

I admit that I'm not a football genius; I just love the game.

but from my perspective, I thought we looked prepared in most games, but were just unable to stay in them because we wore down so fast.

Stoops is still going through some growing pains. He's entering his fourth year as a head coach in the best conference in the nation. Not one person on this board can remotely understand how difficult that is , but are always quick to criticize (and some of it warranted such as Vanderbilt last year). Same thing with Mitch.... not one person has run a D1 athletic department; yet, seem to know what Mitch should have done, shouldn't have done, etc better than he does.

Constructive criticism is one thing; constantly complaining and beating a dead horse is another.

 

[Deeeefense]

just an observation but the best team we have had hear in at least a couple of decades is the 2007 team and as good as they were, they also wore down in the second half of the season. Again, lack of depth may not be the entire reason but it's a good bet that it is the major reason for those occurrences.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Not sure we have worn down in the 2nd half...the schedule has just been much tougher.

The one game in the 2nd half of the last couple seasons that we should've won was Vandy. Atrocious coaching effort in that one...other than that, most 2nd half season losses were expected.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Meh, it's all a moot point anyway. It's an discussion that no one can win.

In the end, Stoops has to win. We must get to a bowl soon to maintain momentum.

 

[WildCard]

Not sure we have worn down in the 2nd half...the schedule has just been much tougher....

Definitely the case in 2014...5 of last 6 opponents finished in AP Top 25. Not the case last year; only 2 of last 7 finished in Top 25. This year, 3 of last 6 (GA, TN and UofL) will likely open in pre-season Top 25.

On this depth discussion, sure, you gotta have subs for injury purposes. But for basic, in game substitution there are 6 positions where, barring in game injury, you simply do not see much substitution at all, the O-line and QB. If you play with a lot of TE sets you can probably get away with playing that position the entire game as well. The common denominator is you "get tired" when you run a lot. That means everybody on defense, WRs and RBs on offense. But you will still probably find some defensive players that play virtually every (meaningful) snap.

As a guess, I would say first team players at such "running positions" play about 70% of the snaps (in a close game). And there are damn few places where the #2 guy is as good as the #1 guy. But it is not like you substitute a whole new team at once. And remember, in today's game, A LOT of those substitutions are "player packages" dictated by game situation and not a reflection of weariness.

Depth is important when replacing an injured starter but I think over the course of a game it is not as significant as a number of people are making it to be. Especially from the standpoint of "wearing down" at the end of the game. FWIW, in 2015, UK's opponents possessed the ball an average of 1:30 more than the Cats and ran 2 more plays/game than did the Cats. I'm not sure that differential is enough to create a tired team situation. JMO, of course...I've never been on a college sideline during a game to see how it really unfolds.

Peace

 

[Big John Stud]

Well if you can't handle the truth..........

I can handle the truth, I can't handle a BS "Joker" excuse. Is "Joker" the reason we can't line up correctly for a simple fg too? Do you have any specifics on why we don't have depth in 2016 because of Joker or are just gonna stick with "Joker"?

 

[Big John Stud]

I don't think some of you people understand how BIG OF A HOLE Joker Phillips left this program in.... You really don't.

He took 3 years and put us 8-10 years behind.

With what Stoops has done thus far with recruiting, THAT ALONE should give him 4+ years.

The winning on the field? Starts this season. This is now HIS full roster of players. It's going to happen.

Bwahahaha, kids have 4 years of eligibility but he put us behind 10 years? So the guys who will eventually get us out of thee hole are in the 4th and 5th grade now? Nope, that's not dumb at all.

 

[TuckyFB]

Bwahahaha, kids have 4 years of eligibility but he put us behind 10 years? So the guys who will eventually get us out of thee hole are in the 4th and 5th grade now? Nope, that's not dumb at all.

Joker got fired in 2012...

2012 + 8 is 2020 and we've already offered kids in the 2020 class. They're freshman in high school.

Go back to Rafters.

 

[ulismyman]

Stoops needs thicker skin..he listens to reporters and fans too much..he doesnt need to respond to every criticism...just fix it

 

[BlueRaider22]

Definitely the case in 2014...5 of last 6 opponents finished in AP Top 25. Not the case last year; only 2 of last 7 finished in Top 25. This year, 3 of last 6 (GA, TN and UofL) will likely open in pre-season Top 25.

On this depth discussion, sure, you gotta have subs for injury purposes. But for basic, in game substitution there are 6 positions where, barring in game injury, you simply do not see much substitution at all, the O-line and QB. If you play with a lot of TE sets you can probably get away with playing that position the entire game as well. The common denominator is you "get tired" when you run a lot. That means everybody on defense, WRs and RBs on offense. But you will still probably find some defensive players that play virtually every (meaningful) snap.

As a guess, I would say first team players at such "running positions" play about 70% of the snaps (in a close game). And there are damn few places where the #2 guy is as good as the #1 guy. But it is not like you substitute a whole new team at once. And remember, in today's game, A LOT of those substitutions are "player packages" dictated by game situation and not a reflection of weariness.

Depth is important when replacing an injured starter but I think over the course of a game it is not as significant as a number of people are making it to be. Especially from the standpoint of "wearing down" at the end of the game. FWIW, in 2015, UK's opponents possessed the ball an average of 1:30 more than the Cats and ran 2 more plays/game than did the Cats. I'm not sure that differential is enough to create a tired team situation. JMO, of course...I've never been on a college sideline during a game to see how it really unfolds.

Peace

From someone who has been on the sidelines it's huge. If you can get just 3-5 snaps of rest it plays huge dividends. Particularly at a place like UK. Bama can rotate a guy in/out for a handful of plays and the team performance suffer very little. Not so much at UK.

Then, factor in special teams. If you want special teams to be a factor in the game you want talent out there. In an ideal situation you have a quality depth player playing special teams rather than a starter. Imagine a starting DE running a 60 yd sprint on a KO, then staying out there for the coming series.

Then, the symbiotic nature off the offense and defense. Sure, the OL starters may not change much but often DL do. If the defense can do a better job, the offense may get the ball with less yds to go to paydirt.

The cumulative effect throughout the season is big as well. Much more in football than other sports. Your body gets sooooo beaten up by the end of the yr it's ridiculous. There's a reason they only play 12-13 games and only 1x/wk. Being able to rest just 2-3 snaps per game means saving 30-35 snaps by the end of the season.

 

[Big John Stud]

Joker got fired in 2012...

2012 + 8 is 2020 and we've already offered kids in the 2020 class. They're freshman in high school.

Go back to Rafters.

You said 8 to 10 years, I was going with the 10 year model. Stoops first year was 2013, 10 is 2023. Either way your point is beyond moronic.

You know what, you should start a thread on the 2020 season and see how that goes. Meanwhile I will continue to post wherever I like.

 

[Poetax]

I can handle the truth, I can't handle a BS "Joker" excuse. Is "Joker" the reason we can't line up correctly for a simple fg too? Do you have any specifics on why we don't have depth in 2016 because of Joker or are just gonna stick with "Joker"?

I think Joker was handed a team that was already beginning to suffer from quality depth but like Brooks he didn't go after top kids either. Marrow has opened our eyes to the possibilities that someday we just may get 4 and 5 star players to come here but all the way back to Curry we seem to accept the idea that no great players would come to UK. So the reason we can't line up correctly comes from lack of talent that was on the team. Do you remember Stoops' first year, they called a play where the QB handed off to a WR on end around but he was supposed to stop and throw it back to the QB, he froze when he saw the pressure coming even though he had time to throw. He was tackled for a loss without attempting the throw. Lesson, players with little talent can't make the plays or make good decisions on the field, and that was where we were at the first two years in my opinion so Joker was part of the problem, not all but part.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Definitely the case in 2014...5 of last 6 opponents finished in AP Top 25. Not the case last year; only 2 of last 7 finished in Top 25. This year, 3 of last 6 (GA, TN and UofL) will likely open in pre-season Top 25.


Peace

Don't really care if you don't think the back half of last years schedule was tougher - that just shows your laughable bias and makes you look less intelligent.

@MSU w/Prescott
@UGA
UT w/Dobbs
UL
And hell even VANdy with their defense is tougher than:

@SC
UF
MIZ
AUB

Not even close really. Georgia, UT, MSU and UL were all in the 20-35 range. (Receiving votes or in the polls)

The first half of the schedule had one such team.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

I agree with Jauk11. UK never had a chance until they agreed to pony up the money. I've said all along the football program crashed and burned not because of Joker but because of MB. Lack of funding never gave Joker a chance. Take a coach that's a 5 or 6 out of ten and he'll look like a 1 with no support. I'm not saying that's what Joker was, I'm saying we don't know because he never had a shot.

Joker never parlayed the success Brooks had into better recruiting. He didn't retain the good assistants from Brooks' staff that were responsible for developing the players under Brooks. He thought that he could hire better recruiters and ended up with terrible recruiters that were abysmal coaches. Joker recruited MAC level players because he didn't think he could do any better. Player attrition was at an embarrassing level. There were a ton of academic casualties in his recruiting classes and after the others that made it enrolled. There was no player accountability for showing up to the weight room. Joker never recruited or developed a competent quarterback. His players had no fight or toughness. Joker was unable to rally the boosters to earmark donations for football improvements like Stooos has.

I'm sure there are a lot of things I missed but there was no amount of money that could've helped Joker. I'm glad the administration and our boosters saved their money until now. Joker wouldn't have had the vision to bring us into the 21st century. Any Joker planned practice facility would've been half *** like he was

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

I don't disagree.

But that is a little bit like saying that the new chef hired at your restaurant has put together an exciting menu, great decor and friendly staff and "...if he ever figures out that whole turning on the stove and actually cooking something part of the job he will be one hell of a chef!"

Stoops is a first time head coach cutting his teeth in the SEC at one of the toughest places to coach in the country. He will pay dearly for every mistake he makes because he has zero margin for error. If you thought we weren't going to have to deal with some growing pains with Stoops then it's your expectations that are the issue not our coach.

The good news is Stoops has Gran now who spent 15 years in the SEC. Stoops has an OC that understands clock management so that he can focus his energy on preparing the defense instead of being pulled in both directions lie he was last year. Clock management wasn't a significant issue when Stoops had Neal Brown. I suspect that the offense under Gran/Hinshaw will be much more prepared/disciplined as will the defense with Stoops being much more involved.

Maybe you don't fully appreciate the mountain Stoops has to climb. He isn't just fighting to change the roster but also a half century of losing culture. The progress Stoops has made in 3 years to change the entire program as a first time head coach is unbelievable.

Until someone like Stoops changes the trajectory of the program completely UK will always have to hire one of two types of coaches. A coach like Brooks in the waning stage of their career that will always have a ceiling or a young up-and-comer that may have a lower floor, a higher ceiling, and little to no head coaching experience.

We are lucky to have a coach that does the things (recruiting, fundraising, hiring quality assistants) that have proven to be extremely difficult to do at UK in the past. So now we must be patient while our chef learns his way around the kitchen because history tells us that hiring a new chef will likely be a huge mistake

 

[gamalielkid]

It is of my opinion that Mark Stoops now has a starting line-up that can compete in the SEC. Not saying he has the depth but that is coming. Having said this, I believe if we are ever going to have a SEC quality football program then he should be given 4 more years on his contract and show potential recruits that he has the schools full support. He is recruiting better than any coach has done so in recent memory at UK and of course that is paramount. Of course wins and bowls are important but being able to replace a quality offensive lineman with one just as qualified is a luxury we have never enjoyed ?

I understand your intentions. My thoughts are if we win 7 regular games this season - which I believe is very achieveable, then Mitch should increase his contract to a total of 4 more years immediately. If we go to a bowl game with six wins, then we should ad at least one more year. That makes a statement that we are fully behind Coach Stoops and that he has turned the corner. Some may say wait for another year - but why should we do that? Are we going to get anymore facility changes in the next few years - NO. If we win 7 games this year - it will have proven that we have turned the corner with quality coaching and atheletes. It will tell the recruits in the future that Kentucky is committed to Stoops and not to listen to the negatives around Stoops. Those negatives work two ways - if we lose - they say he can't get it done here - but if he wins -they will say Stoops will be leaving for a bigger name program if he wins. We need to cut the latter statement off by supporting him now - not after he has to win 9 games or more. It could be too late then!

Go ahead and stablize the program - we know what we have in Coach Stoops as to pedigree, quality as a person, ability to recruit players to his system, he will have a good staff in place and he is the perfect age to start thinking of Coach Stoops as our coach for the next few decades. Showing Coach Stoops loyalty for his role in re-building Kentucky is important for the long term stability and growth of our football program. I say this based on real wins on the field.

I have felt he was the correct hire, not the flashy hire and not the immediate win hire. If we wanted to win immediately and not care about our future - which I admit as a 40 year plus suffering alum - I wanted - we should have hired Bobby Petrino. We said we don't want trash running our program and we are committed to winning the "right way". Doing things the right way is hard, but building a foundation that is strong in all areas could and should set up our football program for decades. I think most of us would be happy to get the same kind of career from Coach Stoops that Virginia Tech got from Frank Beamer. People need to realise Beamer never won a National Championship - but he put Virginia Tech on the football map and when he retired quality football coaches lined up get his job. That is what we want to happen at Kentucky.

Go Big Blue!

 

[Big John Stud]

Joker never parlayed the success Brooks had into better recruiting. He didn't retain the good assistants from Brooks' staff that were responsible for developing the players under Brooks. He thought that he could hire better recruiters and ended up with terrible recruiters that were abysmal coaches. Joker recruited MAC level players because he didn't think he could do any better. Player attrition was at an embarrassing level. There were a ton of academic casualties in his recruiting classes and after the others that made it enrolled. There was no player accountability for showing up to the weight room. Joker never recruited or developed a competent quarterback. His players had no fight or toughness. Joker was unable to rally the boosters to earmark donations for football improvements like Stooos has.

I'm sure there are a lot of things I missed but there was no amount of money that could've helped Joker. I'm glad the administration and our boosters saved their money until now. Joker wouldn't have had the vision to bring us into the 21st century. Any Joker planned practice facility would've been half *** like he was

He didn't retain the goodles assistants because the didn't recruit. We're you unaware of this?

 

[Kybluedude]

We will bowl this year. The program is getting where it needs to be at UK. Has to have 35 RS Srs and Jrs. When that happens we will be a consistent well organized winning outfit.