If that is the case, I wouldn’t be surprised the IHSA “tweaks” the rule next month so that Montini moves up next year
Success Factor
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Althoff won 1 state title game in 1a (then missed the playoffs) and people lost their minds. LeWin won 3 in row and had been to 5 of the last 6 title games. If you want to talk about balancing the playoff equity and moving dominant teams up in class, LeWin has enjoyed as much success as the private schools that are subject to success adjustments.
The exact same thing can be said for any school, public or private. The underclassmen at a private school are "punished" just the same for upperclassmen success. Not really sure I can have much sympathy for programs like LeWin, who dominates their class as much as anyone in the state
Analysis: 66 percent of all-time DuPage County IHSA football semifinalists have been public high schools, vs. 34 percent private
Over the first half century of the Illinois High School Football Playoffs, DuPage County high schools have made 134 appearances in the state semifinals-- 89 from public high schools and 45 from private ones.
dupagepolicyjournal.com
Between 1974 and 2024, 1,360 teams statewide have qualified for the IHSA football semifinals, 1,029 of which were from public high schools, or 76 percent.
All told, 356 different Illinois high schools have had a team that has made the semifinals-- 53 of which have been private, or 15 percent.
Of 678 team state final appearances, 482 have been public high schools (71 percent) and of 339 state champions, 213 (63 percent) have been public.
Schools with the most IHSA football semifinal appearances in state history are Chicago Mt. Carmel (30), Joliet Catholic (25), East St. Louis, Sr. (22), Providence Catholic (19), Maroa-Forsyth (18), Loyola Academy (18), Springfield Sacred Heart Griffin (16), Geneseo (16), Morris (16), Wheaton-Warrenville South (15), Montini Catholic (14), Metamora (14), DuQuoin (14), St. Rita (13), Tolono Unity (13), Rochester (13), Maine South (12), Mt Carmel Ill. (12), Bishop McNamara (12), Newman Central Catholic (11), Driscoll Catholic (11), Arcola (11), Rockford Boylan (11), and Lake Zurich (11).
Exactly why the SF should apply to ALL schools. There are other 1A schools - farm towns, local kids, feeder programs - who work just as hard who have not been able to get to a championship game. I would think teams/coaches/players with as much success would like to move up and be given the opportunity to succeed on the next level.
So it really the recent success that people are complaining about. I think that speaks to several factors:Analysis: 66 percent of all-time DuPage County IHSA football semifinalists have been public high schools, vs. 34 percent private
Over the first half century of the Illinois High School Football Playoffs, DuPage County high schools have made 134 appearances in the state semifinals-- 89 from public high schools and 45 from private ones.
Between 1974 and 2024, 1,360 teams statewide have qualified for the IHSA football semifinals, 1,029 of which were from public high schools, or 76 percent.
All told, 356 different Illinois high schools have had a team that has made the semifinals-- 53 of which have been private, or 15 percent.
Of 678 team state final appearances, 482 have been public high schools (71 percent) and of 339 state champions, 213 (63 percent) have been public.
Schools with the most IHSA football semifinal appearances in state history are Chicago Mt. Carmel (30), Joliet Catholic (25), East St. Louis, Sr. (22), Providence Catholic (19), Maroa-Forsyth (18), Loyola Academy (18), Springfield Sacred Heart Griffin (16), Geneseo (16), Morris (16), Wheaton-Warrenville South (15), Montini Catholic (14), Metamora (14), DuQuoin (14), St. Rita (13), Tolono Unity (13), Rochester (13), Maine South (12), Mt Carmel Ill. (12), Bishop McNamara (12), Newman Central Catholic (11), Driscoll Catholic (11), Arcola (11), Rockford Boylan (11), and Lake Zurich (11).
1) The overall drop in football participants, the effect of which i seen in the public schools the most.
2) Families making a choice to send their child to well established programs.
3) Not saying it doesn't happen in non-boundary schools...but i think the dysfunction and unstable coaching situations probably is another reason
The exact same thing? The point you're trying to make favors my argument more than yours. Althoff's underclassmen were punished in 2024 after Althoff lost in the 2023 playoffs. Rather than bring up the next class of kids that were already on the team, they simply went out and loaded the team up with senior studs. Meanwhile, Le-win and CPC did "next man up."
You are trying to base success factor off of results. I think success factor should be from cause of the results. Althoff had success in 2024 for one reason, and one reason only: They had an unfair advantage at the start of the season. Le-win will not have an unfair advantage over other 1a schools at the start of 2026. If they do, please name it. The kids on the 2026 roster will all be from Lena-Winslow. The vast majority of these kids will be lifelong residents of Lena-Winslow---A public school with an enrollment of around 230. No reason a public school with 230 kids should be put into a playoff class of schools with 300-400 kids based on what the last class did. The kids they have are the kids they have.
No that point does not favor your argument. The same studs that you are complaining about from the state title game got absolutely boatraced the year prior to CPC. The same recruiting efforts you are complaining about resulted in missing the playoffs this year. Yet, LW is playing in like its 6th or 7th title game in as many years and you want to complain about a 1 off championship run from Althoff? It’s almost like you feel it’s your birthright to be 1a champions and someone stole that from you.
Something I saw the other night that no one has brought up here...NIL. Do MC and LWE just have deeper pockets to bring kids in? It is legal in Illinois but you don't hear anyone talking about it.
This is pure speculation and I have no knowledge of any NIL deals in the state, but it makes me wonder knowing it's allowed whether or not those schools with the means are taking advantage of this.
This is pure speculation and I have no knowledge of any NIL deals in the state, but it makes me wonder knowing it's allowed whether or not those schools with the means are taking advantage of this.
I want public schools to have SF too, just to move ESL up and override conference rules. I am not even remotely excited about 6A this year ... boring.
First off…I have as much respect for what Coach Arand and staff have done at Lena as any coach in the state. I think that program is is exceptional.
I absolutely hate what Althoff did last year and don’t want that ever to happen again. But, nothing that’s been done prevents that from happening again. Walther Lutheran could get a new coach and bring in 7 D1 transfers and would be 1A.
I don’t like that Chicago Christian, Hope, Wheaton Acd, Aurora Christian all get bumped up w/o having any real success. Yea Chicago Christian won state last year but did it the same way LW did. No transfers just a new coach with a new culture. 10 Sr’s who went both ways.
I agree with, I don’t like teams being bumped up bc of previous years teams success.
But….its not right that success factor applies only to privates and not publics.
1A would have been much better for all involved if Aurora Christian and Hope were in 1A. Hope vs LW was an outstanding game 2 years ago. We need more of that in the playoffs. Not Hope losing to Lena but getting bumped up 2 classes and getting blown out in 3A. Makes zero sense that the team that beat them doesn’t get bumped up as well.
I agree with everything there except you hate what althoff did? It was their first title in 30 years. How is that more of an example of the problem than a team being in the title games 4 or 5 years in a row?
Having just read the by-laws in an effort to understand the success adjustment, I do not think your third line above is correct. Using the Nazareth hypothetical example you began above, they could conceivably end up classified as an 8A football team eventually (if they continually appear in championship games). However, as soon as they do not appear in a championship game twice over a three-year period of time, I'm pretty sure they would drop all the way from 8A back to 5A. That assumes 5A would still be their baseline classification (as multiplied) at that future point in time.
Have been a lurker and just made an account to post this.
IHSA adopts 8-man
and it’s the new 1A off enrollment. SF is applied that would move them to 11 man.
2A-5A is public off enrollment. SF is applied.
7A-8A is private off enrollment. SF applied. No boundary limits.
Seed all classes 1-32
Any public can join either private classes off enrollment’s but must be stipulated before beginning of season.
IHSA adopts 8-man
and it’s the new 1A off enrollment. SF is applied that would move them to 11 man.2A-5A is public off enrollment. SF is applied.
7A-8A is private off enrollment. SF applied. No boundary limits.
Seed all classes 1-32
Any public can join either private classes off enrollment’s but must be stipulated before beginning of season.
Well there really isn't 64 privates for a full 2 classes. Maybe with every team in, but barely. If it was a separate classes and a non-significant amount of public schools opt into might as well go 16 or perhaps 20 with a play-in to align the 5 week playoff schedule.Have been a lurker and just made an account to post this.
IHSA adopts 8-man
2A-5A is public off enrollment. SF is applied.
7A-8A is private off enrollment. SF applied. No boundary limits.
Seed all classes 1-32
Any public can join either private classes off enrollment’s but must be stipulated before beginning of season.
Those small non-CCL private schools are gonna have a tough time in that 7A...
I don't think you can force an 8 man school into success factoring to 11 man. The main reason they play 8 man is that they don't have the numbers. Success in 8 man isn't going to change that.Have been a lurker and just made an account to post this.
IHSA adopts 8-man
2A-5A is public off enrollment. SF is applied.
7A-8A is private off enrollment. SF applied. No boundary limits.
Seed all classes 1-32
Any public can join either private classes off enrollment’s but must be stipulated before beginning of season.
Althoff got numerous transfers and the team became the best team in a class by 40+ points.
You won’t find that conversation for basketball or most other IHSA sports because the public schools overtake private schools in most other sports categories. It’s just football that fans go all crazy about the division
People always refer to the transfers but don't seem to realize the top 7 or so players from the championship team were also on the team when they lost to cpc.
Also, it was just the year prior where I believe byron set the record for margin of victory (62) in a championship game vs another public school. And they broke the record esl set in 2022 when they won by 50 vs another public school. You have to go back to '17 for a title game where a private beat a public by more than 30.
Or you could go back to last year....Althoff over Lena Winslow by 43....also last year Chicago Christian beat Maroa by 47....also last year Montini beat Monticello by 41....also last year Depaul beat Mt Zion by 34
That all is true but doesn’t make it ok to turn a blind eye to all the transfers
What's your point? 62 and 50 > 47, 43, 41, and 34. This year LeWin is back in the title game and Althoff missed the playoffs. MF is back in the title game and CC missed the playoffs. Depaul missed the playoffs. I think theres been some pretty obvious overreaction to a one off year of title games.
It's not turning a blind eye. It's just the impact of the new transfers prior to last year is greatly overstated.
Althoff probably had as many transfers this year and missed the playoffs.
My point is your statement below is false:
"You have to go back to '17 for a title game where a private beat a public by more than 30."
No you don't have to go back 8 years, only 1 in which you will find 4 examples.
Well I didn't think i had to state that since we were discussing the margin of victory in the '24 title games at the time.
I'm dumbfounded by the fact that some of you can't see the difference in what Althoff did in 2024, and what Le-win, Forreston, Dakota, and Byron have done over the past 15 or so years. Then, I realized many of you keep bringing up bigger schools in larger populations. So, let me give you the scenario:
I live in Lena. Much like those in the schools I mentioned above, and the WIVC schools, we are very rural, and have very little population around us. I am looking out my window right now. To my West is 10 miles of farmland and timber to the next town of 1500 people. To my South, is 8 miles of farmland to the next town of less than 1000 people. To my east is Freeport, a dying "city" of about 25,000 people and a large school district of their own. And to my north 9 miles, is the Wisconsin border. Our county is 44,000 in total.
From Lena, there is 3000 people within a 5 mile radius, 45,000 within a 15 mile radius (our entire county), and 69,000 within a 20 mile radius----much of which is in WI and wouldn't in a million years dream of moving to IL. (we nip the edge of mighty Freeport) By contrast, Althoff Catholic has 45,000 within 5 miles, almost 300,000 within 15 miles, and 700,000 within 20 miles. IC Catholic in Elmhurst had the opportunity to POSSIBLY drop to 1a back in 2021 and/or 2022, but correctly petitioned up to 3a. Their population within 5 mile radius is 300,000, 15 mile radius is 3.5 million, and 20 mile radius is 5.7 million.
After seeing those population statistics, if you're still too dense to see the incredible advantage those schools would have to start the year over schools like Lena-Winslow, Forreston, Byron, Stockton, Camp Point Central, Brown County, also consider to attend either Althoff or IC Catholic, no one has to move to a new address. They just simply get in the car each morning for school and drive a different direction.
At no point did any of the points made above mean someone wouldn't be successful because the coaching staffs at Lena-Winslow, Forreston, Byron, Stockton, Camp Point, etc have found ways to be successful year after year with Le-win and Byron being the most recent to hold the keys. This doesn't mean they start the year with an unfair advantage. Le-win graduates something like 15 seniors this year vs. 4 last year. That is most of their starting lineup. They have to essentially start over with kids that haven't played in that role. They don't simply go on the recruiting trail and reload. One student moved BACK to Lewin in 2022 to play his senior season and the entire conference and area LOST IT'S MIND!! It simply doesn't happen here.
If you cannot see the difference between what small little farm town schools with success vs. schools like Althoff Catholic and IC are doing, then it isn't because you're stupid. It's because we live in 2 totally different worlds.
I live in Lena. Much like those in the schools I mentioned above, and the WIVC schools, we are very rural, and have very little population around us. I am looking out my window right now. To my West is 10 miles of farmland and timber to the next town of 1500 people. To my South, is 8 miles of farmland to the next town of less than 1000 people. To my east is Freeport, a dying "city" of about 25,000 people and a large school district of their own. And to my north 9 miles, is the Wisconsin border. Our county is 44,000 in total.
From Lena, there is 3000 people within a 5 mile radius, 45,000 within a 15 mile radius (our entire county), and 69,000 within a 20 mile radius----much of which is in WI and wouldn't in a million years dream of moving to IL. (we nip the edge of mighty Freeport) By contrast, Althoff Catholic has 45,000 within 5 miles, almost 300,000 within 15 miles, and 700,000 within 20 miles. IC Catholic in Elmhurst had the opportunity to POSSIBLY drop to 1a back in 2021 and/or 2022, but correctly petitioned up to 3a. Their population within 5 mile radius is 300,000, 15 mile radius is 3.5 million, and 20 mile radius is 5.7 million.
After seeing those population statistics, if you're still too dense to see the incredible advantage those schools would have to start the year over schools like Lena-Winslow, Forreston, Byron, Stockton, Camp Point Central, Brown County, also consider to attend either Althoff or IC Catholic, no one has to move to a new address. They just simply get in the car each morning for school and drive a different direction.
At no point did any of the points made above mean someone wouldn't be successful because the coaching staffs at Lena-Winslow, Forreston, Byron, Stockton, Camp Point, etc have found ways to be successful year after year with Le-win and Byron being the most recent to hold the keys. This doesn't mean they start the year with an unfair advantage. Le-win graduates something like 15 seniors this year vs. 4 last year. That is most of their starting lineup. They have to essentially start over with kids that haven't played in that role. They don't simply go on the recruiting trail and reload. One student moved BACK to Lewin in 2022 to play his senior season and the entire conference and area LOST IT'S MIND!! It simply doesn't happen here.
If you cannot see the difference between what small little farm town schools with success vs. schools like Althoff Catholic and IC are doing, then it isn't because you're stupid. It's because we live in 2 totally different worlds.
Your Panthers are playing in its 6th championship game in 7 years and you want people to act like you have been the victim of some gross miscarriage of justice because althoff won 1. One. Uno. championship in 30 years. Lot of entitlement in your posts. Althoff, and every other private has been recruiting for the past 7 years, and you are this bothered by 1 anamoly of a season? You think the althoff folks complained like this when a school with twice as many kids beat them by 40+ in the championship game?
Very bothered by 1 "anamoly" (as you call it) of a season, (or 2) yes. That loophole that puts a team in 1a needs to be completely closed. I believe the stat for Althoff Catholic in 2024 was 15 new players recruited to the school since 2023, 11 of which were starters, and 10 of them recruited as seniors for the 2024 season alone. I'm baffled you don't see the problem with this for 1a football. Let's forget it was Lena-Winslow. Stockton, in contrast has a total high school enrollment of 171, and there isn't a town within 25 miles of them in any direction. Nothing but cornfields. So I want you to tell me with a straight face, that a school like the 2024 Althoff all-star team should be matched up with a team like Stockton in a 1a playoff field. You can't be that naive, can you? Come on Illinois. Do better. These types of teams should NEVER be allowed in the 1a, or 2a playoffs again. It should be a constant multiplier based on population within a certain radius. A team like Sterling Newman for example would not receive the same multiplier as a team like Althoff, and Althoff would not receive the same multiplier as teams like Montini and IC Catholic. Have some common sense.
Please expand on this comment..."these types of teams should never be allowed in 1a". If a 1a team wins 50% of its games by 40+ pts should the ihsa decide midseason they shouldnt be in 1a?
And the quality of the transfers carries absolutely no weight with me in regards to what class a team should be in. You call 2024 an all star team, yet it was essentially the same team that lost the year prior in the quarterfinals. The same effort in recruiting was done this year and they didn't even have a winning record. If you want to say privates should be in 3a or above, fine. That's a more reasonable stance. But to complain about a team being too good after they beat you one time, when you have been dominating that class for nearly a decade sounds like alot of entitlement.
Someone could make a really strong case that a team who makes a state championship game 6 of 7 years probably shouldn't be continually playing in 1a either.
Where is our guy Ramblinman?
This thread was built for him!
This thread was built for him!
????
Wrong! 15 players who never attended Althoff before 2023, transferred in for 2023 and 2024 season. 11 of them started in 2024. 10 seniors added in 2024 alone. I don't know where you got your info. That team was built to win a 1a title quickly before they got the multiplier added. Period. So, with this said, before bringing Le-win up again, please tell me you feel just fine with a school with these resources being put in a playoff bracket with a town like Stockton with an enrollment of 170, and nothing but cornfields for 25 miles in each direction. Once again, Stockton has zero chance to add players to their roster that aren't already in school. (Unless someone moves into district--which may happen once every 5 years)
Tell me this is fine with you. If you do, then the conversation is over, because we live in 2 totally different worlds.
My info came from Frazier, Gettis and Nance. Not some message board or Twitter acct. The 2024 team returned qb1, rb1, rb2, wr1, cb1, their best ol, dl, and lb. Yes, they got some transfers but none of them were better than any of those 8 guys. So acting like they brought in a bunch of studs "after" they lost to cpc is 100% false.
Are you going to attempt to answer any of the questions from my previous post?
What question would you like me to answer? Yes, I will as long as yo
I didn't get my info from a message board or twitter account. I said between 2 years---not just 2024, they brought in 15, 11 of which became starters---many of which you listed. They then transferred 10 players in 2024, of which I have no idea how many were starters. When one of our schools has ONE kid transfer, the conference loses its mind. We are not the same.
As far as answering your questions, I will be happy to. Please let me know which ones you would like me to address. Once I answer your questions, please answer mine: Do you think Althoff Catholic in 2023 and 2024 should have been placed in the same playoff bracket as Stockton, a team with an enrollment of 170 students total, and nothing but cornfields for 25 miles in any direction?
Please expand on this comment..."these types of teams should never be allowed in 1a". If a 1a team wins 50% of its games by 40+ pts should the ihsa decide they shouldnt be in 1a?
I had no problem with althoff being in the same bracket as Stockton et, al the past two years. One big reason is because we saw that all those transfers still got them taken to the woodshed by cpc.
This really comes down to the application of the success factor. And if you look at the resumes of the two teams, i can't honestly say Althoff is more deserving of a SF multiplier and it seems the angst about them being 1a is all after the fact confirmation bias from 1 playoff run.
Team A:
2022: 14-0 1a State Champs
2023: 13-1 1a Runner up
2024: 13-1 1a Runner up
2025: 12-1 in the 1a title games
Team B:
2022: 3-6 missed the playoffs
2023: 10-2 Lost in 1a qrtrs
2024: 14-0 1a State Champs
2025: 4-5 missed the playoffs
Althoff benefited from a confluence of talent and the IHSA waiver rule on the success factor. That happens, at times, a generational team is formed. That team would have won up to 4A, maybe. That said, the last time those Crusaders won was 1990 and those guys are old as hell!
This year, had we made the playoffs, we'd have made noise in 3A. That is on us for not making the cut. We conquered with the sword last year, died by it this year with our punishing schedule.
We have to do better - we will not lower the standard.
It's black and white with no gray! The problem is private school dominance over public. The cause is unfair recruiting with the 30 mile radius that private schools enjoy! SO... the state attempts to correct the recruiting schools dominance by moving them up in a vain attempt to create "competition" and balance, Does the punishment fit the crime... Implying does the multiplied way work? In Mt, Carmel's case no and they should be moved up to D3 college football to make things fair in Illinois high school football. EStL should go independent and play at the 7A level. My catholic buddies in Chicago believe the only way to balance high school football is to have a private only playoff. They see the same thing year in and year out where they clock public schools in the playoffs until they meet other private schools... and they still beat the **** outta them. No public school in Illinois will stop the Caravan and by separating the private school you create balance in the public playoffs. So here we go again with separation for the playoffs only! It will happen sooner than later!
Lena-Winslow has 230 kids and you think (or the state) that Lena should be moved up to 2A? In what world is that fair? They don't recruit nor have a advantage over other 1A schools aside from just play working hard in the weight room and kicking *** in football. Lena would win 2A and then what? Move them up to 3A???
I am reluctant to agree with moving any 1A team up to 2A just like I am not a fan of any private school in 1A! I can attach graphs showing that rural schools enrollments are steadily declining but you would ask "what does that have to do with anything?" right? Have you inquired into the enrollment forecast for schools you believe should be moved up?
I will concede that Rochester and its close proximity to springfield could... could be a recruiting advantage for the Rockets. But I would have my kids to to Chatham or Rochester over any city school. Im sure 99% would agree with that statement. SO should Rochester be moved up to 5A as before and then what? If they continue to win bump them up to 6A? The madness needs to stop! Rochester works harder than most schools. As does Lena and other dominate schools.
The success factor should be limited to the private schools only AND THEY know why!
A Caravan buddy thinks the private school playoffs should have 3 classes and I agree... Hell they (Private schools) know they are making a killing in the playoffs with this silly multiplier ****! They laugh at it. SO give the private schools what they want... separate the privates and lets bring balance back to the public school playoffs.
If this is messed up Im sorry I drove 9 hours to visit family and its 0130 (AM) and I'm a bit tired...
May y'all have a great Thanksgiving day!!!
ROLL TIDE
I am just going to put this out there.... Say ESL doesn't go 6a and wins 4-5 state championships, in a row... What would be the rumble? Oh they're just trophy hunting.... Now... When RHS does this, he's a hell of a coach.... and he is... RHS does get as I call it... Recruit by default.... They skip 186, Springfield and go to Williamsville Chathan (less lately) and RHS... I have 3 kids in the last 2 yrs that moved here for FOOTBALL. If you can win 3-4-5 in a row and the last one you won you running clocked the whole tournament, I would say that you could move up a class... Just my .02 cents worth....
ESL results since 2019
2019 - 1st
2020 - no tournament
2021 - 2nd
2022 - 1st
2023 - 2nd
2024 - 1st
2025 - TBD
Another reason why the Success Factor should apply to the Public’s. However ESL isnt trophy hunting bc the SWC won’t allow them to play a higher class than 6A. If SF was in play, they’d be in 7A this year.