Talent not the issue...

[cardkilla_rivals379685]

We have ENOUGH talent to beat a good many teams. What we saw in the first half showed that very clearly.

I believe Stoops and others are right though, these guys are just not mentally tough AT ALL. Go back to first game last year, they barely survived. Same with EKU game.

It's as if they can't handle even a bit of success. They think they've arrived.

Florida game is big for this team. Sure we haven't won in forever, but these guys are talented enough to beat them.

I don't believe it's schemes, personnel, or anything like that. It's toughness, desire and heart. Hopefully they find it soon. It's the last layer in shredding that losers mentality that has been bred into our program for decades. If you want to change it, you have to overcome it. So far we're not close. Holding out hope for a rebirth down in Gainesville.

 

[stlacy09]

Problem is, we're missing talent where it matters a lot...D line. So that is a personnel issue. I agree with you that we have talented players elsewhere but they can only do so much to negate a porous D line.

I remember a quote one SEC coach said a decade or so ago: "You don't want to play Kentucky. They'll beat you up by the end of the game. They play hard and they'll hit you." Paraphrasing there but his point was that even though we weren't the most talented team (and never will be) we hit people and hit them hard, over and over. Need that dog mentality back. They have to understand that we still don't have enough raw talent to beat many teams so they have to play tougher and hit harder than everyone. Not seeing that. I don't know what Brooks did to pull it out of them but I wish Stoops could find it. That can help (not overcome, but help) negate a lack of premier talent.

 

[shutzhund]

Problem is, we're missing talent where it matters a lot...D line. So that is a personnel issue. I agree with you that we have talented players elsewhere but they can only do so much to negate a porous D line.

I remember a quote one SEC coach said a decade or so ago: "You don't want to play Kentucky. They'll beat you up by the end of the game. They play hard and they'll hit you." Paraphrasing there but his point was that even though we weren't the most talented team (and never will be) we hit people and hit them hard, over and over. Need that dog mentality back. They have to understand that we still don't have enough raw talent to beat many teams so they have to play tougher and hit harder than everyone. Not seeing that. I don't know what Brooks did to pull it out of them but I wish Stoops could find it. That can help (not overcome, but help) negate a lack of premier talent.

Just that lots of kids don't want to work a whole lot of players shy away from giving and taking hits. We have some of each and I fear more of the former.

To underscore a Ga fullback I knew, who won the Lombardi award, said the toughest team they played was UK. Said they didn't seem to care if they won or lost they just ran around looking for some one to hit.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

IMO, it's the coaching more than it is the players. When I was in high school, we didn't have any big time D1 talent on our team but we played teams that did and we won a lot more of those than we lost. Effort, grit, and determination can overcome some lacking physical attributes.
Wesley Woodyard was not very big or overly fast but he was full of those things I listed. Plus he was a leader. Brooks had a roster full of guys that weren't "rated" high but he got everything out of them he could IMO.
Tell me, how many times did we see the Noseguard disrupt a play or make an effort play? You gotta want this. Great coaches can see the potential and get it out of a player. If Brooks could win at UK with the supposed "poor" facilities, why can't Stoops win now then? If Stoops has more talent and more highly rated recruits, then why hasn't it reflected in wins?
You think Bear Bryant had the most talent on the field when he coached at UK? Did Rupp always have more talent than the other teams? UK didn't have anyone on their team more talented than Elgin Baylor, but they still beat them.

 

[WildCard]

Problem is, we're missing talent where it matters a lot...D line. So that is a personnel issue. I agree with you that we have talented players elsewhere but they can only do so much to negate a porous D line....

I pretty much agree with this. But I'll go a bit further and say that some of the "talent" that has been brought in does not seem to be quite as talented as once thought.

There has been a lot of talk of players not developing under this staff. When you stop to think about it, while there is certainly a lot of tactics and strategies to the game, the actual "skills to play the game" (e.g., shedding a block, footwork on a trap, inside hip position in coverage, etc) are really pretty common across the board. And that implicitly means there is a certain commonality to "what" the position coaches "teach". Yeah, some guys are better teachers than others but some players simply have more inherent talent to better execute these techniques.

I get a chuckle out of coaching bios that state "he sent so and so" to the NFL. Players basically put themselves in the NFL by having extraordinary natural talent and working hard (weight room, film room, practice field, etc.) to maximize those God given physical skills. JMO

Peace

 

[akaukswoosh]

Btw. a tweet from Ben Roberts on Florida talent vs. UK talent:

18 of Florida's starters for Saturday's game were listed 4- or 5-star recruits. Kentucky has six of those.

 

[KopiKat]

Btw. a tweet from Ben Roberts on Florida talent vs. UK talent:

18 of Florida's starters for Saturday's game were listed 4- or 5-star recruits. Kentucky has six of those.

one of those Elam? [eyeroll]

 

[rick64]

USM in 2012-2014 went 0-12, 1-11 and 3-9. 2015 went 9-4. Their rivals.com recruiting rankings from 2012-2016 was 76, 74, 83, 81, 78.

UK rivals.com recruiting rankings since Stoops has been here 2013-2016 was 29, 18, 34 and 29. So let's not say UK isn't getting the best talent we've seen in recent years if not ever.

So this must make us question coaching!!!!!

 

[K_TIME]

I don't believe it's schemes, personnel, or anything like that. It's toughness, desire and heart. Hopefully they find it soon.

Hate to burst the bubble...but toughness, desire and heart are so vague and non specific? If you can't ball...you are goign to stink in college athletics.

- Billy Jack Haskins played half his UK days with a bum arm and was tough as all get out...but Tim Couch played over him and at a way higher level.
- Collins Ukwu transformed his body and gutted it out...but the kid had the explosiveness of a ham sandwich coming off the edge.
- Demoreo Ford was a fighter at WR...but 5'10 frame and not very fast limited him bigtime.

We have major DL talent issues and our scheme for a 3-4 is a total mess. Those are our 2 biggest issues facing the team.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Hate to burst the bubble...but toughness, desire and heart are so vague and non specific? If you can't ball...you are goign to stink in college athletics.

- Billy Jack Haskins played half his UK days with a bum arm and was tough as all get out...but Tim Couch played over him and at a way higher level.
- Collins Ukwu transformed his body and gutted it out...but the kid had the explosiveness of a ham sandwich coming off the edge.
- Demoreo Ford was a fighter at WR...but 5'10 frame and not very fast limited him bigtime.

We have major DL talent issues and our scheme for a 3-4 is a total mess. Those are our 2 biggest issues facing the team.

Of course talent, or lack of same, is an issue. DL is the major culprit but OL is too. That's 2 areas where UK has recruited poorly. Think back to 2-3 years ago. Late recruiting defections and misses are really showing up in the DL now.

As for the 3-4 thing...I'll let others handle that one, far too technical for me.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

Talent or coaching? At this point, what difference does it make? To win, you need both and we only got one

 

[reflaine]

Losing Jason Hatcher and Reggie meant unexpectedly sure didn't help the front seven.

 

[NCukcat62]

Talent isn't the issue. It's coaching. If the players aren't "tough" then that falls on the staff.

 

[MulletCat]

Hate to burst the bubble...but toughness, desire and heart are so vague and non specific? If you can't ball...you are goign to stink in college athletics.

- Billy Jack Haskins played half his UK days with a bum arm and was tough as all get out...but Tim Couch played over him and at a way higher level.
- Collins Ukwu transformed his body and gutted it out...but the kid had the explosiveness of a ham sandwich coming off the edge.
- Demoreo Ford was a fighter at WR...but 5'10 frame and not very fast limited him bigtime.

We have major DL talent issues and our scheme for a 3-4 is a total mess. Those are our 2 biggest issues facing the team.

This is a huge difference I see from the players Brooks brought in. He found the 2 stars that had grit and skill and developed them.

 

[buster3.0]

Talent isn't the issue. It's coaching. If the players aren't "tough" then that falls on the staff.

Correct. It is all about the culture within the program established by the coaches, starting with the head coach. Leadership. If you have a weak and loose culture, then the players will adopt that. If you have a culture of blood, sweat, and tears toughness with an expectation of perfection, that will also affect the players.

Saban is a really good tactician and smart game planner. What makes him the best of the modern era is the culture he has established in the Alabama program. It is not about just winning or execution, it is about achieving perfection. That is why you never hear him sound too happy after a big win. There is always room for improvement.

One example I can think of is Vol related. As I read once in an article, the difference between practices when Cutcliffe returned to be OC vs. when Sanders was OC was astonishing. Cutcliff demanded a high tempo, high energy, highly efficient practice for his offense. Apparently, practices under Sanders where none of those things.

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Problem is, we're missing talent where it matters a lot...D line. So that is a personnel issue. I agree with you that we have talented players elsewhere but they can only do so much to negate a porous D line.

I remember a quote one SEC coach said a decade or so ago: "You don't want to play Kentucky. They'll beat you up by the end of the game. They play hard and they'll hit you." Paraphrasing there but his point was that even though we weren't the most talented team (and never will be) we hit people and hit them hard, over and over. Need that dog mentality back. They have to understand that we still don't have enough raw talent to beat many teams so they have to play tougher and hit harder than everyone. Not seeing that. I don't know what Brooks did to pull it out of them but I wish Stoops could find it. That can help (not overcome, but help) negate a lack of premier talent.

Good quote. I remember Brooks' teams being hard hitting teams that were tough.

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

If we have enough talent (which we do, certainly more than enough to beat USM), then the issue is obviously coaching. If the team can't handle pressure or success or whatever the OP mentioned. Then that falls back on the coaches for not being able to prepare the team mentally, I mean, that is what they get paid to do isn't it? Why we have all these assistants if it's not on them to prepare this team mentally? So we have talent. But this team can't handle pressure. And that's not the coaches fault? I'm pretty sure that's called game preperation and an area in which stoops fails miserably in. It's his job to prepare the team for pressure situations. Its his job to have his team ready for unexpected in game circumstances and to teach them how to be resilient. But since he fails at that it couldn't possibly be his fault? Just an all around terrible post by the OP..

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

We run a 3-4 when obviously the personnel we have isn't equipped for a 3-4. You have to have a damn good DLine to run a 3-4. And we don't have a good DLine. But we still go with a 3-4? Obviously the coaches are failing miserably.

 

[TBCat]

USM in 2012-2014 went 0-12, 1-11 and 3-9. 2015 went 9-4. Their rivals.com recruiting rankings from 2012-2016 was 76, 74, 83, 81, 78.

UK rivals.com recruiting rankings since Stoops has been here 2013-2016 was 29, 18, 34 and 29. So let's not say UK isn't getting the best talent we've seen in recent years if not ever.

So this must make us question coaching!!!!!

I think it's totally coaching. And not just the spots we normally end up talking about. The forgotten part of the game is special teams. Stoops may be the worst special teams coach in the history of the SEC. We can actually destroy a team on both offense and defense and yet end up losing because we are just that bad on special teams. A lot of people forget we opened the game by getting a punt blocked and a muffed FG. That's 10 points worth of special teams mistakes in a game we lost by 9.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

This is a huge difference I see from the players Brooks brought in. He found the 2 stars that had grit and skill and developed them.

True, Rich was always one of the best player personnel guys around. He had a great sense for talent. His only problem at UK was developing depth to win down the stretch against better SEC teams. I very much appreciate his contribution to UK football.

 

[Poetax]

IMO, it's the coaching more than it is the players. When I was in high school, we didn't have any big time D1 talent on our team but we played teams that did and we won a lot more of those than we lost. Effort, grit, and determination can overcome some lacking physical attributes.
Wesley Woodyard was not very big or overly fast but he was full of those things I listed. Plus he was a leader. Brooks had a roster full of guys that weren't "rated" high but he got everything out of them he could IMO.
Tell me, how many times did we see the Noseguard disrupt a play or make an effort play? You gotta want this. Great coaches can see the potential and get it out of a player. If Brooks could win at UK with the supposed "poor" facilities, why can't Stoops win now then? If Stoops has more talent and more highly rated recruits, then why hasn't it reflected in wins?
You think Bear Bryant had the most talent on the field when he coached at UK? Did Rupp always have more talent than the other teams? UK didn't have anyone on their team more talented than Elgin Baylor, but they still beat them.

Our coaching has some problems no doubt, but dropping an interception thrown right to you, having two called pass interference penalties and a personal foul, being out of position with 26 seconds left in the half that led to a score, and still having poor tackling is more player problems then coaching. They need to realize like the coaches that the game is more then one half to win.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Our coaching has some problems no doubt, but dropping an interception thrown right to you, having two called pass interference penalties and a personal foul, being out of position with 26 seconds left in the half that led to a score, and still having poor tackling is more player problems then coaching. They need to realize like the coaches that the game is more then one half to win.

Those kind of plays happen in almost every game even by the top programs. What I am talking about is teaching and developing players. HOF'ers have made those plays you talked about.