Tate Myre
- Thread starter CSCatFan1
- Start date
It was a gruesome, terrible incident. Four lives lost, a half-dozen more injured, and thousands traumatized for weeks or months or years.
The gun was purchased by his father on Friday. His own social media and his mother’s social media refer to the gun as the child’s. At 10 am on Tuesday — less than three hours before the murders — his parents had a conference due to disturbing behavioral patterns the day before.
We glorify violence and we do nothing to stop it. Grown men and women collect firearms to pose with them and celebrate them.
We’re pretty good at honoring heroes or first responders and throwing ribbons and #oxfordstrong hashtags up, and we’re particularly good at public prayer after tragedies, whether performative or not.
We’re really bad at preventing mass murder. The Myre family wishes that nobody outside of MAC football coaches had ever heard their son’s name, and I’m sure they won’t be excited if his name goes on the football stadium, recognizing the worst day of their lives.
The other dead students are:
Justin Schilling, 17 years old
Madisyn Baldwin, 17
Hana St. Juliana, 14
My sister-in-law is a radiologist in the area. She spent yesterday and today viewing traumatic brain injuries, to child-sized brains.
The gun was purchased by his father on Friday. His own social media and his mother’s social media refer to the gun as the child’s. At 10 am on Tuesday — less than three hours before the murders — his parents had a conference due to disturbing behavioral patterns the day before.
We glorify violence and we do nothing to stop it. Grown men and women collect firearms to pose with them and celebrate them.
We’re pretty good at honoring heroes or first responders and throwing ribbons and #oxfordstrong hashtags up, and we’re particularly good at public prayer after tragedies, whether performative or not.
We’re really bad at preventing mass murder. The Myre family wishes that nobody outside of MAC football coaches had ever heard their son’s name, and I’m sure they won’t be excited if his name goes on the football stadium, recognizing the worst day of their lives.
The other dead students are:
Justin Schilling, 17 years old
Madisyn Baldwin, 17
Hana St. Juliana, 14
My sister-in-law is a radiologist in the area. She spent yesterday and today viewing traumatic brain injuries, to child-sized brains.
Yes, thoughts and prayers but definitely let’s not do anything to reduce the amount of guns circulating through our society because freedom.It was a gruesome, terrible incident. Four lives lost, a half-dozen more injured, and thousands traumatized for weeks or months or years.
The gun was purchased by his father on Friday. His own social media and his mother’s social media refer to the gun as the child’s. At 10 am on Tuesday — less than three hours before the murders — his parents had a conference due to disturbing behavioral patterns the day before.
We glorify violence and we do nothing to stop it. Grown men and women collect firearms to pose with them and celebrate them.
We’re pretty good at honoring heroes or first responders and throwing ribbons and #oxfordstrong hashtags up, and we’re particularly good at public prayer after tragedies, whether performative or not.
We’re really bad at preventing mass murder. The Myre family wishes that nobody outside of MAC football coaches had ever heard their son’s name, and I’m sure they won’t be excited if his name goes on the football stadium, recognizing the worst day of their lives.
The other dead students are:
Justin Schilling, 17 years old
Madisyn Baldwin, 17
Hana St. Juliana, 14
My sister-in-law is a radiologist in the area. She spent yesterday and today viewing traumatic brain injuries, to child-sized brains.
Tate Myre. Remember his name. A true hero. Such a bright future; such a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to his family and friends.
Yes, he acted heroically. I’m not feeling good about leaving it to a kid to try to wrest a hot, loaded gun from another kid in school.
Would you feel better if he had killed his victims by running over them with a car, as the killer in Waukesha did?
A gun isn't a toy anymore than a car or a chainsaw is. Each of them are powerful tools that you don't give to your mentally disturbed teenage son. I hope the idiot parents are sued into the ground over this.
But the actions of those idiot parents don't justify casting aspersions on those of us who understand how to use guns, chainsaws, and automobiles like responsible adults.
The vast majority of us who own firearms DO NOT "glorify violence" and most certainly DO NOT "pose with them and celebrate them". Some of us actually teach firearm safety courses and make sure that our firearms are NEVER available to children. Mine are always locked up unloaded.
Do not paint us with the idiot brush.
As a nation, we are gun crazy. We have more firearms than people, and no reliable way of tracking who’s packing.
We love our guns more than any other country in the world.
Linked, a federal legislator with at least four firearms staged behind her as she participates in committee sessions. Because federal legislators like posing with guns.
Anyway, school districts all around the Detroit metro area are closing for the next two days due to credible and non-credible threats.
Let me tell you: it’s no fun negotiating school attendance with your ten year old who is scared out of his mind because he fears he’ll be next. I can’t imagine how he’ll react when he understands why he’s home two more days.
I only hope you’re capable of acknowledging that we have a serious, serious gun problem and, sadly, no will to solve it.
I realize this thread was about celebrating a hero, or whatever, but we’ve got far too much need for heroes these days.
well whatever you responsible gun owners are doing to stop the needless killings thank you ...but as a nation what we are doing is not working.......
One needs a license to drive a car but god forbid they’d need a license to own a fireman. Ones drivers license can be taken away from them if they’re deemed no longer fit to be on the road, but god forbid we do the same with guns. (And sadly all anyone can do to justify this is to scream “the constitution! It guarantees me guns” — but 1) Few people are ever suggesting to ban all guns and 2) by its very nature constitutions are meant to be amended.)
We used to be common sense about guns in this country, then the NRA and right wing turn it into a massive issue, right around the time they invented the evangelical right and moral majority. It’s the most cunning thing the fiscal republicans and corporate-teet-sucking politicians ever did. Suddenly poor and middle class whites were voting against their economic interests because guns and Jesus. But whatever. Empires are meant to collapse and we’re all gonna die and be forgotten anyway…
The reality is that largely the gun wars have been lost. From my perspective, no one including cops should have them, but none of that is happening and likely open carry will soon be the law of the land.
I think the country would be much better off focusing on mental illness. If your family has never had mental illness you have no idea how the legal/medical system conspires against the family along with limited resources. Thanks largely to the ACLU's campaign for legal rights for the mentally ill and post Reagan cuts to mental health services, the US has legislated/lawyered it's way into a nightmare for responsible families. I don't know what the story is with this kid and his parents, but I can guarantee you that we would have a lot fewer youth shootings with more legally practical and resourced mental health services. My suggestion is to stop focusing on guns and focus on meaningful mental health reforms.
I think the country would be much better off focusing on mental illness. If your family has never had mental illness you have no idea how the legal/medical system conspires against the family along with limited resources. Thanks largely to the ACLU's campaign for legal rights for the mentally ill and post Reagan cuts to mental health services, the US has legislated/lawyered it's way into a nightmare for responsible families. I don't know what the story is with this kid and his parents, but I can guarantee you that we would have a lot fewer youth shootings with more legally practical and resourced mental health services. My suggestion is to stop focusing on guns and focus on meaningful mental health reforms.
This is moronic. Cars have a purpose (transport) other than killing. Guns only purpose is killing.
Crap..... and I was hoping this thread would finally solve this problem.
Look, I don't agree with kaTNap. I think the proliferation of guns in this country is idiotic and I'll never understand the fascination. But that doesn't matter. I'm not going to change his mind and screaming my beliefs on this matter is not going to make things any better. If Sandy Hook didn't change this issue in America, then nothing will.
So, the next approach is to try like hell to get along and make things better. It sounds like kaTNap is supportive of "responsible" gun ownership. We may disagree in some areas about what that means, but I have to think there are some actions that can be taken to cut down on some of the gun violence with some common-sense regulations and restrictions that don't overly burden the responsible gun owner. The key is for us to not get so caught up in the political ******** and recognize that our politicians are mostly using our emotions against us. They are never going to work calmly to make this problem any better because they gain way too much from the fight. Too bad there is not a better way.
When we have 100+ incidents of kids driving students over in mass killings then we can have that discussion. I love when people run to the 'strawman' handbook to distract from reality.
Example: We can't run the ball..YOU: What about the fact that we have low attendance in geology class?
You're talking to a former Marine infantry officer here. These guns have ONE design purpose and that is to kill other human beings. Not to make noise or holes in paper targets; but to kill. Who they get pointed at in Oxford, Kenosha, or on the South Side of Chicago doesn't change this simple fact. Saying you 'need' them is utter ********.
Agree 100 percent about improving free and affordable mental health outlets for the millions of people who desperately who need it.The educational system must teach kids the skills they need so when they graduate they can get a job.Whether it is public or being home schooled does not matter.There is also another factor involved about gun violence and that is here in Illinois there is a straightforward way to legally possess a firearm.Fill out your application for your FOID card and when you are approved you are set.The problem is that the criminals and gang bangers could care less about the laws.Listen to what CPD Comm. Brown says after he gives the report of the weekend violence in Chicago or the weekly report of wounded and killed.Sounds like Vietnam in the late’60’s.First thing he says is enforce the laws we have on the books and there are quite a few.We have an idiot Cook County States Atty who is derelict in who duties and refuses to prosecute these crimes.She said after a shootout that made the OK corral look like child’s play that the participants looked like mutual combatants.There has to be consequences for one’s action.Well I wasn’t going to post but I did.
I try to steer clear of these conversations online, but I'll take the bait.
Regarding gun violence and regulation, there can be no progress so long as the obsession with personal "liberties" prevails. I regularly talk with people abroad and they've laughed at us through the pandemic about the refusal of so many to wear masks because it infringed on such liberties. The personal liberties > common good mentality is so toxic. We have a social contract, that for example includes a shared agreement to drive on an agreed upon side of the road, and no one complains about their right to drive on the other side, or require people to have a license in the first place (or take that license away for all sorts of reasons).
Regarding school violence...guarantee everyone at that school knew this kid and would have made him the most likely kid to do this. Kids like this are often fiercely unpleasant, uncooperative, resistant to outreach - all as a social survival/defense mechanism...and are mixed with peers who are impatient, indifferent, and sometimes flat-out cruel - NO ONE including faculty, admins, and other parents want to deal with them, so the problem manifests while they are essentially isolated and literally have days at a time without interruption to decide how they will make everyone sorry. To be clear, I'm not sympathizing with the shooter here, but in times like these everyone wants to 1) blame someone and 2) find heroes, but rarely do we see everyone taking time to consider what they themselves could do/could have done.
Regarding gun violence and regulation, there can be no progress so long as the obsession with personal "liberties" prevails. I regularly talk with people abroad and they've laughed at us through the pandemic about the refusal of so many to wear masks because it infringed on such liberties. The personal liberties > common good mentality is so toxic. We have a social contract, that for example includes a shared agreement to drive on an agreed upon side of the road, and no one complains about their right to drive on the other side, or require people to have a license in the first place (or take that license away for all sorts of reasons).
Regarding school violence...guarantee everyone at that school knew this kid and would have made him the most likely kid to do this. Kids like this are often fiercely unpleasant, uncooperative, resistant to outreach - all as a social survival/defense mechanism...and are mixed with peers who are impatient, indifferent, and sometimes flat-out cruel - NO ONE including faculty, admins, and other parents want to deal with them, so the problem manifests while they are essentially isolated and literally have days at a time without interruption to decide how they will make everyone sorry. To be clear, I'm not sympathizing with the shooter here, but in times like these everyone wants to 1) blame someone and 2) find heroes, but rarely do we see everyone taking time to consider what they themselves could do/could have done.
Good post! The Cook County States Atty has created an environment for those scumbag looters, RKelly/Jussie Smollet, and the blatant south/west side nightly gladiator battles. Yet she got re-elected. Disgusting.
A few things people should able to agree on, and that should not affect responsible gun owners.
1. Register your weapons. Make it a service of your DMV. Make it renewable online. But register your weapons and renew them every year. If a weapon is sold, record the transaction and new owner with the state.
2. A certain level of crime (misdemeanor or felony, violent only or all) conviction surrenders your right to own a firearm. (Like a suspended license.)
More controversial, but
3. A crime committed with a firearm is a chargeable offense against both the actual perpetrator and the registered owner of the gun. If a gun’s not yours anymore, register the sale before the handoff. (This kid’s father should have those same four counts of murder hanging over him.)
None of these things offer significant burden for responsible gun owners.
We are, of course, trending in the opposite direction. Stand your ground + open carry = vigilante justice.
My personal belief is that guns are dumb, protect no one, put people needlessly on high alert, and facilitate thousands of suicides because it takes one bad minute to make that decision. As written above, their only use is death. But this is unpopular, even as it’s generally the global view on things.
1. Register your weapons. Make it a service of your DMV. Make it renewable online. But register your weapons and renew them every year. If a weapon is sold, record the transaction and new owner with the state.
2. A certain level of crime (misdemeanor or felony, violent only or all) conviction surrenders your right to own a firearm. (Like a suspended license.)
More controversial, but
3. A crime committed with a firearm is a chargeable offense against both the actual perpetrator and the registered owner of the gun. If a gun’s not yours anymore, register the sale before the handoff. (This kid’s father should have those same four counts of murder hanging over him.)
None of these things offer significant burden for responsible gun owners.
We are, of course, trending in the opposite direction. Stand your ground + open carry = vigilante justice.
My personal belief is that guns are dumb, protect no one, put people needlessly on high alert, and facilitate thousands of suicides because it takes one bad minute to make that decision. As written above, their only use is death. But this is unpopular, even as it’s generally the global view on things.
Although I appreciate the thought it is less about making mental health services free and affordable than making the system manageable for really sick people that are delusional, prone to violence, etc. You may, say, have a child that evidences severe mental illness in college, but the parents, police and health caregivers have their hands tied behind their backs. Very often they cannot intercede in providing help absent a long legal process. I am not expert, but my brother has been severely mentally ill most of his life and my sister, who is a registered nurse by training plus worked many years as a technical consultant in law offices, struggled to navigate the system, keep my brother on his meds, search for facilities that would provide help when he intermittently became violent, etc. The system is f... and many of the tragedies that have occurred were because families didn't have someone like my sister. Until we get a better grasp on all this, mental cases using guns are inevitable.
If you are a law abiding citizen you will follow the law.If an individual or group feels their rights are being infringed on by the government then let them take it to court and let the court decide and if it goes all the way to the Supreme Court Great.Would I mind tighter restrictions on these gun shows or some other venues you can purchase a gun and really have no knowledge of what transaction took place absolutely.In a perfect world no one would have a weapon.Unfortunately we do not live in those times.Would not surprise me if the parents of that kid up in Michigan get charged with multiple crimes.That is why they told the kid do not talk and they lawyered up.For me there is only three things you should have a gun for.Hunting,gun target shows or going to gun ranges because if you have a gun you better no how to use it and having a professional help you is very important and self protection.I am not going to get into about protecting us against a tyrannical government and I don’t care who is running the show in D.C.Trump or Biden.P.S.Meant to say would not mind at all on tighter restrictions on gun shows or other venues that cannot be tracked.
No, _that_ is moronic. Do you have any clue how many crimes are _prevented_ because the intended victim is armed? Do you have any clue how many crimes are _prevented_, because the criminals _don't know_ whether their intended victim is armed? I'll tell you what, put a sign on your front yard "NO GUNS IN THIS HOUSE, WE'RE UNARMED". You won't do it, because that would be moronic, wouldn't it?
Hunting is a legitimate sport. Defense against dangerous animals (think rabies, and pitbulls on the loose, and in some parts of the world, bears, mountain lions, etc.) is a legitimate use of a firearm. Also, in a true SHTF situation, some people may have to choose between hunting to survive and starvation.
The "gun show" thing is mostly a made-up problem. Most or all sellers at gunshows are firearms dealers (as Federal law uses the term); you have to file an ATF form 4470 and do a NICS background check to buy from them the same way you would at a gun store.
Same thing is true for sales over the Internet; those have to go through an FFL holder who will execute a 4470 and run a NICS check, too.
Precisely. In the real world, laws do not have some sort of talismanic effect that automagically implement the intentions of their drafters. They have unintended effects, and may simply fail to accomplish the intentions of their drafters at all. "OMG, we have to do something" is not a logical approach to actually fixing the problem.
If I became president which would be a scary thought one of the first things I would do would get all the top mental health experts together and somehow someway get a plan together to completely change the way we deal with mental health issues.The COVID lockdowns the horrible opioid problem that kills thousands of Americans each month and people who have had long term mental health problems and who have had their problems multiplied by the COVID situation must be helped .We waste billions of dollars on stupid pork barrel crap by both parties and to not have a comprehensive plan to deal with this problem is in my opinion criminal.
Of course I'm supportive of responsible gun ownership. We already have quite a number of regulations and restrictions, some of which may actually do some good. (Some are just plain dumb.)
Keep in mind, that multiple gun laws were already broken in this case in Michigan, as is almost always the case. (It's illegal for a 15 year old to have a pistol, or to use a pistol except under adult supervision, it's illegal to buy a gun intending to give it to someone else [a "straw purchase"] without a legal transfer through an FFL, it's illegal to bring a gun into a school, etc.)
I don't know how constitutional it is, but I would not have a problem with requiring proof of having passed a firearms safety / gun law course before being able to purchase a firearm, which would cover precisely topics like what I describe above. That's not "registering a gun," but proving that you've been trained in the safe and legal use of the weapon.
You do understand that cars and chainsaws are not made to kill people. Guns on the other hand are made to do just that.
No , how many??? Your moronic use of hunting and pitbulls are why you need a guna is just plain stupid!
Are you against what I’ve written above?:
- gun registration and annual re-registration
- gun surrender for certain classes of criminals
- holding owner of a weapon criminally liable for crimes committed with that weapon
Why or why not? Would these protections affect law-abiding gun owners?
Mechanical devices don't have any will or intention. They don't "know" what they were "made for". A gun is just a tube with some springs and levers attached to it. It is engineered to propel a piece of copper or lead accurately toward a target.
The rest is up to the human operator. He's the only one with will or intention in the equation.
No, I would not support that.
Already the law. Violent felons are generally "prohibited persons" for the rest of their lives unless they are pardoned. Some jurisdictions take it further with "red flag" laws; conviction of an offense is not required. (I think that is susceptible to serious abuse.)
What situation are you referring to exactly? If my car is broken into and my weapon stolen, am I responsible for it in perpetuity? Or are you considering the case in which the gun is lent to someone?
In general, I don't think you should be held responsible for the misuse of your property (by another party) that you didn't authorize and couldn't reasonably anticipate or avoid. Don't you agree?
Nope sorry. Guns only have one purpose. Just like a pencil is intended to write or a light to make.. well light. A M2 .50 cal machine gun isn't a noise maker. Neither are AR/AK assault weapons.
They don't arm Marine infantry with cars. They arm us with guns.
Thank you for your service. Do you actually disagree with anything I wrote? Mechanical devices are just that, machines. We're not talking Skynet here.
If guns had will, intelligence, or intention, or "knew" why they were made, you wouldn't need Marine infantry at all. The guns could do the job by themselves.
@kaTNap Why are you against registration? Seems a small price to pay for owning a killing machine.
The logic for liability: As a responsible gun owner, your gun is locked and secured. If your gun is stolen from your glove compartment, very certainly it was not locked and secured. It was your responsibility to ensure that it was only your property. If someone steals your gun and then goes on to commit a crime, that crime was only possible because you didn’t treat your weapon with proper care.
Or, if a minor commits a crime with his parent’s legally-owned weapon (again, in this case, it was simply an illegal gift), that gun owner allowed that crime to happen.
With the privilege to possess a killing weapon comes great responsibility and, therefore, great potential culpability.
The logic for liability: As a responsible gun owner, your gun is locked and secured. If your gun is stolen from your glove compartment, very certainly it was not locked and secured. It was your responsibility to ensure that it was only your property. If someone steals your gun and then goes on to commit a crime, that crime was only possible because you didn’t treat your weapon with proper care.
Or, if a minor commits a crime with his parent’s legally-owned weapon (again, in this case, it was simply an illegal gift), that gun owner allowed that crime to happen.
With the privilege to possess a killing weapon comes great responsibility and, therefore, great potential culpability.
This truly saddens me being a Michigan native belonging to the same school district as Oxford playing them a plethora of times in high school sports football basketball baseball etc ..hearing about this on the news in Philadelphia my condolences are with all the involved families, but what I don’t understand and I’ll never understand is why do we keep getting guns for children I get guns are used to hunt but not semi automatic Handguns I just don’t get the thrill these kids seek guns I guess this must be the new trend.