Doubtful. They'll pounce when he has a bad game again.
Tatum's Coach
- Thread starter Dad2ze
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Doubtful. They'll pounce when he has a bad game again.
Ok! I jumped the gun. Glad this kid found his stroke. Played one hell of a game tonight. Game Ball totally his!!!
Considering he sucked terribke at the beginning of the year too? What's the point of acting like this was all stupid? Did we jump the gun sure but what we were stating in real time was true. He did what he needed to improve thankfully
A lot of peeps choking on Turd Sandwiches as we speak lol.
I honestly think with the Giles, Bolden, and Tatum all hurt made a huge impact in how everyone played at the beginning. When they finally returned it was like playing with guys you never played with before. The hype that surrounded Tatum and then he made boneheaded plays (not finishing at the rim, taking ridiculous shots, and dribbling off your foot behind your back). I think anyone would have a reason to doubt him at the time. I'm glad that he's proved himself and is playing like we all thought he would.
There's no doubt in my mind that we can't win the big games without him. He's huge throughout these final games. He has to play smart though.
Just wanted to re-post this gem. #bandwagonfan
Let's enjoy the win fellas, no need to get on each other tonight. That's what tomorrow is for.
Well, when "fans" jump on our guys when they are struggling, it seems right to call posters out. They are the same posters that act like they have been supportive all along when we play well. The new search/history function is glorious imo.
I don't disagree with anything there, I just prefer to enjoy the win tonight haha. There is a reason that a few of those fans rarely post here when things go right. Give pigsah credit he takes and owns his, he's a rare breed. The others are nowhere to be found.
I'll admit I was hard on Tatum. He pressed way to hard and I think he hurt the team chemistry, but I also think a lot of other this hurt the chemistry as well. He did a lot to bring the criticism on himself, as Grayson did things to bring it on to himself, but at the end of the day we all love our team, we love these guys, and I know we are all cheering our hearts out for them to be what we wanted them to be, even if in the moment we did get irritated with them.
Let's be honest here about Tatum. Not too long ago he was not playing good at all. A lot was going on with the team but Tatum was struggling. Everyone knew he was talented, and yes some may have went too far but some of the people that are jumping on the folks that bashed Tatum can't sit on your perch and not admit he was hurting team. Yes when he fouled out against Wake, Duke was better rest of that game. Duke is much much better now than a month ago and Tatum is a huge reason they're better. No one can deny that he's playing within team better. Look we're all just fans, some get too over top, but at end of day we all want Duke to succeed
It's a process. He's a stinking freshman. He will not seamlessly make the transition to college ball. There's a learning curve (and it got set back when he was injured).
I'm really happy to see Jayson putting his game together. I'm sure it's been frustrating for him. GO DUKE. #6 . OFC
My only point would be that players slump. Matt went through a horrible stretch and he'd be the first to admit it. It wasn't because he sucked, didn't develop or was the same player as when he was freshman. So I would say, yes, it was stupid. It kind of goes back to what I said a month ago about people being overly reactionary. Again, in sports, 1+1 doesn't always equal two. In all likelihood, both Matt and Jayson will have games going forward where they struggle again, sort of like Luke and Grayson did last night....but this team is coming together and picking one another up. We didn't see that in January and it was causing the whole team to press.
Back to Jayson....anyone who watched him play could tell that for Duke to get to their ultimate goal he was going to be a big part of the process. He made some silly decisions in the game against State, but I still maintain it ultimately came down to him not finishing plays at the basket. Missed shots happen....his problem was that he allowed it to seep into his head and it caused him to force.
I don't hide I've been a big supporter of Jayson. He was slumping. He was struggling to fit into an offense where he didn't have to be the guy on every possession. Now he's at a point where he's playing within the offense and making better 'team' decisions, not the individual ones. He was sensational last night, but my one worry/gripe is that I don't want him to become strictly a jump shooter. It's not his strength game in/game out. What worked last night won't work every night. He's best when he's putting the ball on the floor and driving.
Last night was a good win. Another building moment for this team. Their body language since the first half of the Wake game is completely different, and of course, winning will do that. But most impressive to me is how they've buckled down and made winning plays and played together late in games. Think about it....in this six-game winning we've been locked into battles in every single time down the stretch. This team is starting to have fun and believe again. It's a pretty sight.
Bring on Wake!
Most definitely. Like the beginning of the season was lightning in a bottle, so has the past three weeks been. K is a big factor because now this team is finding/has found an identity. All of us can attest that it wasn't pretty during the search.
I agree and I admit I was harsh but at the time I felt it was warranted but he did what he needed to succeed and that was buy in! Grayson and Luke have both in no certain terms said the same thing about him talking about how he's finally bought in and we're lucky he did! Which him playing this good I honestly think we're the best team in the country
Honestly, one of the best things to happen to Jayson might have been fouling out against Wake. It gave him a chance to watch and maybe put a little reality in his head too. Sometimes even the littlest things can be huge learning moments.
You can't fault a kid who was playing the same way he's played his entire life. Do you think any team Jayson has been on someone has told him he needs to find shots within the offense rather than simply finding shots? I would be shocked if that was the case. This was a big adjustment for him this year. It's easy to say now that he stunk then and is great now, but why are we so quick to tear down our own players? Isn't the point of being a fan to be loyal to support the players on your team? It's this whiny entitled attitude that bothers me greatly and when I see it directed at our guys I am going to call it out for sure.
The thing I have learned about sports particularly college basketball (Especially Duke) is that a team evolves throughout the season. What you see in the beginning is usually never the finished product. Probably the biggest thing I enjoy about watching Duke is that I get to see the process of the team growing, jelling and seeing the cohesion over the course of the season. Outside of winning championships it is my favorite thing to see. What K does with that ball of clay is a thing of beauty and these brutal road wins in the middle of the season is what shapes and forms that ball of clay along with what we don't see behind the scenes (practice). Not just in sports but in life I try not to use tunnel vision, I try to see the whole picture. I know there is a lot going on that I will never see, so I just trust in the greatest of all time and just watch the process play out. No matter what, I trust our coach and I trust the process. Give it a try, it makes things a lot easier and keeps you from looking like a fool to your peers on a national message board.
Over the last five games he's been letting the game come to him. Sometimes it takes a little longer for him to understand it, but he takes what the defense is giving him. He isn't forcing it. Last night called for more shake and bake and jump shots. He was on. Against ND he got looks close. With UNC it was a mix. If he continues to take what the defense gives him he will continue to be huge player for us.
The thing that bothered me the most with the criticism wasn't that it wasn't warranted but the constant "he's selfish" "bench his ***" "we are better off without him" ********. That to me is unjustified especially to a freshman. An injured freshman at that who's trying to find his way. Adjustments happen and the light turns on at different points for each player.
I agree. The defense needs to step up just a little and we will be hard to beat
I would agree with most of what you're saying. Duke was never going to be better without him, however, he did need to be humbled. Too much hype on these kids of this generation, they are told how good they are...Yes he is an extremely talented young man, and one that is figuring out the game and playing with other talented guys. Anyone who doesn't at least admit to some of him needing to learn team ball isn't seeing it for what it really was. The only shot I don't like seeing him take is the fade away.
Right but the point was there wasn't anyone that disagreed that he needed to adjust. The point was people were writing him off and not even giving him a chance, and that is unfair.
It all boils down to becoming a TEAM. This board was pounding our players early and it really wasn't fair for a team who was so broken up and unpracticed due to so many injuries. All the teams we were losing to, hell they had been practicing and playing in games, TOGETHER. For a while we were a different team almost every game, adding in another new style and player each game. They have to get familiar with each other, learn how they can rely on each other and what to expect from each. That's a process that usually happens super early and in those exhibition games. We did that way into the season, now things are becoming to gel, we're learning how to move as a cohesive unit, help defense, trust in one another. and even though we look 1000 times better, we are STILL in the process. STILL have players healing and learning to trust in their injuries. Giles, perfect example. He's playing cautious. Can't blame him with what he's riding on. Once he fully trusts the knees, could spell doom for the upcoming opponents. I'm trying to be mean to posters, but i can't take threads early in the season saying this team is done. Thats disrespectful. To our staff, players and those of us who absolutely love this team and University.
Great, great game from Tatum last night. The thing is, some fans are just more optimistic than others. Is saying Tatum sucks and saying the this team is done taking things too far? Yes. No doubt about it. But Tatum or anyone else on the team is not above criticism when they are not playing well. It looks like Tatum might finally be buying in which is great and all that his critics were wanting. However, if he starts jacking up dumb shots again and not playing team ball, he will get criticized once again.
Bud, nobody is against some criticism. "THIS TEAM IS DONE" That entire thread=stupid.
"Tatum should not be allowed to touch the ball past half court" = stupid.
"Tatum is ruining this team, bench him." = stupid.
Giving up on a freshmen with that much talent and athleticism= MEGA STUPID.
"Tatum should not be allowed to touch the ball past half court" = stupid.
"Tatum is ruining this team, bench him." = stupid.
Giving up on a freshmen with that much talent and athleticism= MEGA STUPID.
He was shooting the same shots then as he did last night.He was a freshman who missed significant time due to injuries.He was in a learning curve that every young player goes thru
No he wasn't. He was trying to take over out of the flow of the O before but now he's involved. It's a team effort the team has grown because he chose to do what they asked and he's thriving right now because of it
It's called perspective. Look at all the adversity that team was mired in. "He's playing out of control." "He's not buying into the system." This is a freshman on a team that has literally not been healthy all year, has no cohesiveness whatsoever, playing without their head coach against NCAA-level competition. Hell yeah, he's going to look rough! In addition to that, a little history awareness would not go amiss: I have yet to see a freshman class that didn't hit The Wall. It always happens in January like clockwork. The grind of conference play wears these kids out and they have to discover that next gear they never had to tap into in high school. And every year people always act surprised when it happens. Tatum hit it harder than most for the reasons stated above. I don't mean to be combative, but it's frustrating that people choose not to take that into account when they're dragging players across the pavement for struggling. /rant
There is a middle ground here. Tatum played poorly earlier in the season. This poor play could conceivably be attributed to a selfish attitude, but there's no direct evidence of that (Luke's comments about some guys not buying in don't necessarily point to selfishness, rather this statement may indicate someone didn't trust in the team plan). Tatum's poor play could be attributed to changing expectations and roles. The coaches were not consistent, his teammates were in and out and with his outside shot not falling, he was being asked to slide into the lane more. He did loaf down the floor at times, but it could be he just spaced trying to figure out where he should be. Grayson does it all the time.
The truth is, no one really knows why Tatum struggled, so proclaiming "bench him" or "we'd be better without him" didn't ever make sense. Criticisms and speculation are all fine, but the jokes about him weren't necessary. We have to give our young guys a break unless it looks like they really are taking plays off or acting standoffish to coaches (thinking of Rivers, who at times looked like he hated being at Duke).
Poking fun at a senior Josh Hairston for jumping at every pump fake is fine though. I'll always support that.
The truth is, no one really knows why Tatum struggled, so proclaiming "bench him" or "we'd be better without him" didn't ever make sense. Criticisms and speculation are all fine, but the jokes about him weren't necessary. We have to give our young guys a break unless it looks like they really are taking plays off or acting standoffish to coaches (thinking of Rivers, who at times looked like he hated being at Duke).
Poking fun at a senior Josh Hairston for jumping at every pump fake is fine though. I'll always support that.
But when we make such stupid comments, it's fun to have the opportunity to call us idiots for being wrong.
I say we and us because I am talking about Duke fans in general. Not because I ever say idiotic things or need to be called out. I am usually right about 51% of the time.
On a more serious note, I am willing to get my crow ready for eating. If Tatum continues to get better and better, that means great things for Duke. He has been great lately at driving and dishing to the 3 point shooters, it hasn't shown up fully because our shooters haven't been draining them recently. But still. Last night he was our 3 point shooter and it was fun to watch. Hope he keeps it up.
Man I've enjoyed watching some of you eat crow. I always felt like Tatum was one of the most gifted players we've had in recent years and it was just a matter of time that he figured things out with help from the coaching staff. Now if we can get Frank, Bolden, and Giles rolling other teams are gonna have hell to pay.