Tax Plan Shifts Trillions From U.S. Coffers to Richest Families

[moe]

Wealthy families get a large tax break, middle class Americans pay more in taxes, sounds legit.

At the same time, lower- and middle-income families could be in a worse position. The White House proposes to reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to three: 10, 25 and 35 percent. But no one yet knows where the income cutoff lines are being drawn. People who end up being pushed into a lower bracket would be better off, but those kicked into a higher bracket would not be.

Families with after-tax income between roughly $19,000 and $76,000, for example, are now in the 15 percent marginal tax bracket, which is slated for elimination.

“That’s where the middle of America is,” Mr. Kleinbard said. While some may drop into the new 10 percent bracket, others could be nudged up into the 25 percent range.

Increasing the standard deduction to about $24,000 for couples might also appear to help most families, but that is not necessarily the case, Mr. Kleinbard pointed out. Larger families, which now benefit from being able to add a deduction for every additional member of their household, could lose out.

“At the bottom end, the typical family will be worse off if personal exemptions go away,” he said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ers-to-richest-families/ar-BBAszor?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[CAJUNEER_rivals]

But no one yet knows where the income cutoff lines are being drawn.

So the claims of impending calamity for the middle class are worthless alarms sounded by partisan hacks.

 

[EEResistable]

Wealthy families get a large tax break, middle class Americans pay more in taxes, sounds legit.

At the same time, lower- and middle-income families could be in a worse position. The White House proposes to reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to three: 10, 25 and 35 percent. But no one yet knows where the income cutoff lines are being drawn. People who end up being pushed into a lower bracket would be better off, but those kicked into a higher bracket would not be.

Families with after-tax income between roughly $19,000 and $76,000, for example, are now in the 15 percent marginal tax bracket, which is slated for elimination.

“That’s where the middle of America is,” Mr. Kleinbard said. While some may drop into the new 10 percent bracket, others could be nudged up into the 25 percent range.

Increasing the standard deduction to about $24,000 for couples might also appear to help most families, but that is not necessarily the case, Mr. Kleinbard pointed out. Larger families, which now benefit from being able to add a deduction for every additional member of their household, could lose out.

“At the bottom end, the typical family will be worse off if personal exemptions go away,” he said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ers-to-richest-families/ar-BBAszor?li=BBnb7Kz

It doesn't "shift" anything. People will keep more of their own money.

 

[moe]

So the claims of impending calamity for the middle class are worthless alarms sounded by partisan hacks.

Ok let's say they get rid of the 15% bracket and have 10 and 25 as proposed by Trump. Let's say the cutoff is $40k for an individual where those making less than $40k pay 10% and those making between $40k and $79k (for ex.) pay 25%. If you were making $45K before and paying 15% but now pay 25% then that's a big tax hike for millions of middle class folks and that's a big deal. I'm not sure whether you couldn't understand the author's example or don't care. I don't expect Trump's proposal to stay unchanged but that's what we have to go with at this time.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Ok let's say they get rid of the 15% bracket and have 10 and 25 as proposed by Trump. Let's say the cutoff is $40k for an individual where those making less than $40k pay 10% and those making between $40k and $79k (for ex.) pay 25%. If you were making $45K before and paying 15% but now pay 25% then that's a big tax hike for millions of middle class folks and that's a big deal. I'm not sure whether you couldn't understand the author's example or don't care. I don't expect Trump's proposal to stay unchanged but that's what we have to go with at this time.

It's a graduated tax table, so it's really not going to make much of a difference in either direction for those people. As loosely outlined, the big winners seem to be the ultra wealthy. Especially with eliminating the estate tax.

 

[Boomboom521]

Wealthy families get a large tax break, middle class Americans pay more in taxes, sounds legit.

At the same time, lower- and middle-income families could be in a worse position. The White House proposes to reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to three: 10, 25 and 35 percent. But no one yet knows where the income cutoff lines are being drawn. People who end up being pushed into a lower bracket would be better off, but those kicked into a higher bracket would not be.

Families with after-tax income between roughly $19,000 and $76,000, for example, are now in the 15 percent marginal tax bracket, which is slated for elimination.

“That’s where the middle of America is,” Mr. Kleinbard said. While some may drop into the new 10 percent bracket, others could be nudged up into the 25 percent range.

Increasing the standard deduction to about $24,000 for couples might also appear to help most families, but that is not necessarily the case, Mr. Kleinbard pointed out. Larger families, which now benefit from being able to add a deduction for every additional member of their household, could lose out.

“At the bottom end, the typical family will be worse off if personal exemptions go away,” he said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ers-to-richest-families/ar-BBAszor?li=BBnb7Kz

That just means the lords of the land will plow more fields and plant more crop. We peasants must trust in the system as it is divinely designed, for the lords will provide.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Wealthy families get a large tax break, middle class Americans pay more in taxes, sounds legit.

At the same time, lower- and middle-income families could be in a worse position. The White House proposes to reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to three: 10, 25 and 35 percent. But no one yet knows where the income cutoff lines are being drawn. People who end up being pushed into a lower bracket would be better off, but those kicked into a higher bracket would not be.

Families with after-tax income between roughly $19,000 and $76,000, for example, are now in the 15 percent marginal tax bracket, which is slated for elimination.

“That’s where the middle of America is,” Mr. Kleinbard said. While some may drop into the new 10 percent bracket, others could be nudged up into the 25 percent range.

Increasing the standard deduction to about $24,000 for couples might also appear to help most families, but that is not necessarily the case, Mr. Kleinbard pointed out. Larger families, which now benefit from being able to add a deduction for every additional member of their household, could lose out.

“At the bottom end, the typical family will be worse off if personal exemptions go away,” he said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ers-to-richest-families/ar-BBAszor?li=BBnb7Kz

Doom and gloom snowflake. You lost me after the first paragraph when the writer admits he knows nothing, then assumes out his rear end.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Ok let's say they get rid of the 15% bracket and have 10 and 25 as proposed by Trump. Let's say the cutoff is $40k for an individual where those making less than $40k pay 10% and those making between $40k and $79k (for ex.) pay 25%. If you were making $45K before and paying 15% but now pay 25% then that's a big tax hike for millions of middle class folks and that's a big deal. I'm not sure whether you couldn't understand the author's example or don't care. I don't expect Trump's proposal to stay unchanged but that's what we have to go with at this time.

Will you please remove 'Fayetteville' as where you're from? I'm from there, and we're much smarter than that. You're not even from there, so please use Jackson County as your location. You're giving real Pirates a bad name.

 

[moe]

Doom and gloom snowflake. You lost me after the first paragraph when the writer admits he knows nothing, then assumes out his rear end.

It's no surprise that you got lost.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Will you please remove 'Fayetteville' as where you're from? I'm from there, and we're much smarter than that. You're not even from there, so please use Jackson County as your location. You're giving real Pirates a bad name.

No one will listen to a Michigan Herd fan. F off.

 

[moe]

Will you please remove 'Fayetteville' as where you're from? I'm from there, and we're much smarter than that. You're not even from there, so please use Jackson County as your location. You're giving real Pirates a bad name.

Being a herd supporter, you've got no room to talk smack to anyone.

 

[CAJUNEER_rivals]

Ok let's say they get rid of the 15% bracket and have 10 and 25 as proposed by Trump. Let's say the cutoff is $40k for an individual where those making less than $40k pay 10% and those making between $40k and $79k (for ex.) pay 25%. If you were making $45K before and paying 15% but now pay 25% then that's a big tax hike for millions of middle class folks and that's a big deal. I'm not sure whether you couldn't understand the author's example or don't care. I don't expect Trump's proposal to stay unchanged but that's what we have to go with at this time.

Let's don't say and wait to see the actual numbers.

 

[TarHeelEer]

It's no surprise that you got lost.

I get lost in liberal crap piles all the time. I need to learn to stay out of them.

 

[WVPATX]

It's a graduated tax table, so it's really not going to make much of a difference in either direction for those people. As loosely outlined, the big winners seem to be the ultra wealthy. Especially with eliminating the estate tax.

Completely disagree. I live in Texas. Many, many ranchers. They are asset rich, cash poor. When they pass, their heirs often have to sell all or part of the ranch to pay the estate taxes. More importantly, if a person works, pays their taxes and dies, why does the state get yet another bite at the apple. They have done everything right and their estate has already been taxed?

And for anyone that isn't biased and knows the tax code, this outline is directly squarely at the middle class. Only those with an agenda would suggest otherwise.

It goes after hedge funds. It eliminates the ability of the rich to form LLC's to get that 15% tax rate. I suspect the result will be very little tax benefit for the rich with the vast majority of the benefit going to the middle class and the poor. Lower rates, child care credits, dramatically increased standard deductions, etc.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

I feel sorry for the middle class Trump supporters. Those morons actually thought a trump tax plan would benefit them.

 

[WVPATX]

I feel sorry for the middle class Trump supporters. Those morons actually thought a trump tax plan would benefit them.

You are one of the posters that I KNEW would never understand the plan. It takes some level of intelligence and understanding of the tax code. You possess neither.

 

[TarHeelEer]

I feel sorry for the middle class Trump supporters. Those morons actually thought a trump tax plan would benefit them.

I feel sorry for the middle class Obama voters. Those morons actually thought democrats would benefit them.

 

[WVPATX]

I feel sorry for the middle class Obama voters. Those morons actually thought democrats would benefit them.

Let me tell you how stupid the liberal media is that is already claiming this is a huge tax break for the rich. Trump released an outline of 3 tax brackets. We have no idea what income levels fit into each bracket. How is it possible to determine who benefits until we know those basic facts. We do know the standard deduction is expected to increase dramatically. That certainly benefits the middle class. The hedge fund loop hole will be close, raising taxes on the wealthy in that business. Mnunchin said that the rich won't be able to take advantage of the new 15% rate on LLC's and other small businesses, so that is a huge benefit to the middle class. Child Care credit is proposed, huge benefit to the middle class. State taxes eliminated as a deduction, huge cost to the wealthy.

We need to know far more and we need to see what emerges from the House and the Senate before anyone will know for sure. This is media hyperventilation trashing something they know little about. Fake news.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Completely disagree. I live in Texas. Many, many ranchers. They are asset rich, cash poor. When they pass, their heirs often have to sell all or part of the ranch to pay the estate taxes. More importantly, if a person works, pays their taxes and dies, why does the state get yet another bite at the apple. They have done everything right and their estate has already been taxed?

Estate tax hits about 5,000 people a year. I feel like more people than that die each year? You can stick to your "people I know" argument, but it really doesn't hold water. I'm not talking right or wrong, fairly or unfairly, but the estate tax hits the top 1% Eliminating the estate tax would be a boon for the ultra wealthy.

 

[moe]

I suspect the result will be very little tax benefit for the rich with the vast majority of the benefit going to the middle class and the poor.

smh And you want to portray yourself as having some knowledge in these matters? There's no chance of that now. As usual you think if you say something enough times that maybe one person will believe you....not going to happen. Simply eliminating the alternative minimum tax would have saved Trump $31M in 2005 and that's just one of his proposed tax breaks for wealthy people. "Very little tax benefit for the rich"....I can't stop laughing. Fortunately congressional Republicans will restore some sanity to this but probably not a lot.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

smh And you want to portray yourself as having some knowledge in these matters? There's no chance of that now. As usual you think if you say something enough times that maybe one person will believe you....not going to happen. Simply eliminating the alternative minimum tax would have saved Trump $31M in 2005 and that's just one of his proposed tax breaks for wealthy people. "Very little tax benefit for the rich"....I can't stop laughing. Fortunately congressional Republicans will restore some sanity to this but probably not a lot.

Hopefully, AMT is drastically altered. It is affecting waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy more people than it should.

 

[WVPATX]

Estate tax hits about 5,000 people a year. I feel like more people than that die each year? You can stick to your "people I know" argument, but it really doesn't hold water. I'm not talking right or wrong, fairly or unfairly, but the estate tax hits the top 1% Eliminating the estate tax would be a boon for the ultra wealthy.

Libs like you want to tax everything. A man or woman does everything right. Works hard. Pays their taxes. And when they die, they pay yet again. UnAmerican. And the story of the ranchers is absolutely true. It is true of all Americans that are asset rich and cash poor. It happened to my own family business. So don't sit there and tell me it doesn't happen to those that are not ultra wealthy. It is an unfair tax that punishes achievement.

 

[WVPATX]

Hopefully, AMT is drastically altered. It is affecting waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy more people than it should.

The Trump outline killed AMT.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Libs like you want to tax everything. A man or woman does everything right. Works hard. Pays their taxes. And when they die, they pay yet again. UnAmerican. And the story of the ranchers is absolutely true. It is true of all Americans that are asset rich and cash poor. It happened to my own family business. So don't sit there and tell me it doesn't happen to those that are not ultra wealthy. It is an unfair tax that punishes achievement.

lmao

 

[WVPATX]

smh And you want to portray yourself as having some knowledge in these matters? There's no chance of that now. As usual you think if you say something enough times that maybe one person will believe you....not going to happen. Simply eliminating the alternative minimum tax would have saved Trump $31M in 2005 and that's just one of his proposed tax breaks for wealthy people. "Very little tax benefit for the rich"....I can't stop laughing. Fortunately congressional Republicans will restore some sanity to this but probably not a lot.

I know far more of finance and taxes than you will ever know. Trump released an outline. The outline and Mnunchin's description of their intent is clearly targeted at the middle class. You may not like it, but it is true. My daughters who are very young and doing well, will save a bundle. But we still don't know the income segments for each bracket. The liberal media jumped the gun and are issuing fake news reports. To be expected.

Corporations will certainly benefit as will small businesses. That means far more jobs, far more growth, much to the benefit of the middle class. Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. Non competitive.

Even Dem acknowledge the AMT has to go. I am not saying that no rich people will benefit, I am saying this plan is targeted at the middle class. Huge standard deductions. Child care credits. Lower rates. Elimination of some deductions that mainly impact the rich. The rich tax bracket goes from 39 to 35%, not exactly earth shattering.

 

[WVPATX]

lmao

Why do you support the death tax? So unAmerican.

 

[WVPATX]

smh And you want to portray yourself as having some knowledge in these matters? There's no chance of that now. As usual you think if you say something enough times that maybe one person will believe you....not going to happen. Simply eliminating the alternative minimum tax would have saved Trump $31M in 2005 and that's just one of his proposed tax breaks for wealthy people. "Very little tax benefit for the rich"....I can't stop laughing. Fortunately congressional Republicans will restore some sanity to this but probably not a lot.

Why don't you read NPR about the AMT. Learn something.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I feel sorry for the middle class Obama voters. Those morons actually thought democrats would benefit them.

I feel sorry for any of you that think there's a big difference between Democrats and Republicans

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Why do you support the death tax? So unAmerican.

Show me one post where I did.

 

[WVPATX]

Show me one post where I did.

You certainly sounded like you support the death tax. If you don't support it, why even bring it up in this thread? After all, Trump is proposing to eliminate it.

Estate tax hits about 5,000 people a year. I feel like more people than that die each year? You can stick to your "people I know" argument, but it really doesn't hold water. I'm not talking right or wrong, fairly or unfairly, but the estate tax hits the top 1% Eliminating the estate tax would be a boon for the ultra wealthy.

And this:

As loosely outlined, the big winners seem to be the ultra wealthy. Especially with eliminating the estate tax.

BTW, how do you know this:

It's a graduated tax table, so it's really not going to make much of a difference in either direction for those people

Can you tell me the income brackets for each level? No, you can't because they have not been published. You are pushing a narrative that no one can possibly know. Moreover, you completely ignore the things we do know. The doubling of the standard deduction. Child Care credits. Small business tax rates.

 

[mneilmont]

smh And you want to portray yourself as having some knowledge in these matters? There's no chance of that now. As usual you think if you say something enough times that maybe one person will believe you....not going to happen. Simply eliminating the alternative minimum tax would have saved Trump $31M in 2005 and that's just one of his proposed tax breaks for wealthy people. "Very little tax benefit for the rich"....I can't stop laughing. Fortunately congressional Republicans will restore some sanity to this but probably not a lot.

Would liberals be more satisfied by altering the meaning of AMT. Make the M = maximum. Require everyone to calculate taxes with Trump plan. Also calculate taxes using current code. All taxpayers would be required to file and pay the tax of the larger amount - Alternative Maximum Amount.

I would prefer an addendum to the code used. Everyone would be required to file and pay some amount. Everyone would be required to pay some minimum percent of earnings or the calculated AMT - Maximum.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

You certainly sounded like you support the death tax. If you don't support it, why even bring it up in this thread? After all, Trump is proposing to eliminate it.

Estate tax hits about 5,000 people a year. I feel like more people than that die each year? You can stick to your "people I know" argument, but it really doesn't hold water. I'm not talking right or wrong, fairly or unfairly, but the estate tax hits the top 1% Eliminating the estate tax would be a boon for the ultra wealthy.

And this:

As loosely outlined, the big winners seem to be the ultra wealthy. Especially with eliminating the estate tax.

I like to deal in facts. At no point did I say I was in favor of a death tax. At no time did I say the rich shouldn't be the winners of a tax cut. I simply want to cut through the ******** that these cuts are aimed at the so called middle class. I apologize if your warped populist mind can't understand how someone saying something is a boon for rich people is a negative. That's on you, not me.

 

[WVPATX]

I like to deal in facts. At no point did I say I was in favor of a death tax. At no time did I say the rich shouldn't be the winners of a tax cut. I simply want to cut through the ******** that these cuts are aimed at the so called middle class. I apologize if your warped populist mind can't understand how someone saying something is a boon for rich people is a negative. That's on you, not me.

LMAO. Nice try. Very nice try. You say you deal in facts yet. So tell me, what is the cutoff income level for each bracket? If you don't know than how can you possibly opine on who this benefits? What is the new standard deduction proposed to be and who does that benefit the most? Who will the child care credit benefit the most? What about small business tax cuts, who does that benefit the most (Mnunchin said they would exempt the rich from the 15% small business tax rate).

But start with the income levels please. What are they per bracket?

 

[WVUCOOPER]

LMAO. Nice try. Very nice try. You say you deal in facts yet. So tell me, what is the cutoff income level for each bracket? If you don't know than how can you possibly opine on who this benefits? What is the new standard deduction proposed to be and who does that benefit the most? Who will the child care credit benefit the most? What about small business tax cuts, who does that benefit the most (Mnunchin said they would exempt the rich from the 15% small business tax rate).

But start with the income levels please. What are they per bracket?

I didn't mention brackets, I mentioned the outline that wants to eliminate the death tax. I called out Moe for suggesting the new rates would raise taxes on some in the "middle class". I even stated "as loosely outlined".

 

[WVPATX]

I didn't mention brackets, I mentioned the outline that wants to eliminate the death tax. I called out Moe for suggesting the new rates would raise taxes on some in the "middle class". I even stated "as loosely outlined".

You posted this:

It's a graduated tax table, so it's really not going to make much of a difference in either direction for those people.

Sure seems like you think you know those income levels since you decided it won't make a difference. And your prior posts about benefitting the rich (re the death tax) sure seemed like you like the death tax since it benefits the rich.

I noticed you did not respond to the standard deduction increase, the child care credit or the small business tax cut (regarding who benefits).

 

[Mntneer]

Estate tax hits about 5,000 people a year. I feel like more people than that die each year? You can stick to your "people I know" argument, but it really doesn't hold water. I'm not talking right or wrong, fairly or unfairly, but the estate tax hits the top 1% Eliminating the estate tax would be a boon for the ultra wealthy.

Not really. Most get around it as is.

It truly does hit the smaller "estates" that are rich in "assests". Even in little ole' WV I've seen it hit a number of families. Now, granted thanks to Bush's changes, it's not nearly as destructive, but the law should be heavily revised.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

You posted this:

It's a graduated tax table, so it's really not going to make much of a difference in either direction for those people.

Sure seems like you think you know those income levels since you decided it won't make a difference. And your prior posts about benefitting the rich (re the death tax) sure seemed like you like the death tax since it benefits the rich.

I noticed you did not respond to the standard deduction increase, the child care credit or the small business tax cut (regarding who benefits).

I didn't respond to them because I don't know the details. A higher standard deduction would benefit people that file using the standard deduction. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it would help people that don't own a home and live in a low/no income tax state. And it would really depend how much it increased. I assume the child care credit would most benefit taxpayers paying for child care. Again, I have no idea as to the specifics.

As to the income levels, I was suggesting it would not make a difference given the example by Moe. I even quoted his example in my response. You can look.

 

[WVPATX]

I didn't respond to them because I don't know the details. A higher standard deduction would benefit people that file using the standard deduction. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it would help people that don't own a home and live in a low/no income tax state. And it would really depend how much it increased. I assume the child care credit would most benefit taxpayers paying for child care. Again, I have no idea as to the specifics.

As to the income levels, I was suggesting it would not make a difference given the example by Moe. I even quoted his example in my response. You can look.

The standard deduction doubles. Directly benefits the middle class and the poorer Americans.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

The standard deduction doubles. Directly benefits the middle class and the poorer Americans.

I said as much in my post. I've said all along that any tax cut would benefit them. I merely stated the tax cut, in its entirety as outlined, would benefit the rich and ultra rich more. Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Not really. Most get around it as is.

It truly does hit the smaller "estates" that are rich in "assests". Even in little ole' WV I've seen it hit a number of families. Now, granted thanks to Bush's changes, it's not nearly as destructive, but the law should be heavily revised.