Not saying this flippantly, but you do realize he was 11-11 with a few equally terrible losses in 20-21 as well. Illinois was bad, Nebraska was bad.
Thank you Virginia Tech
- Thread starter BostonNit
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I guess if you consider every loss bad, then yeah, he had bad losses, but so has every other coach. Hate him all you want, but the previous three seasons one thing he didn’t do was lose to teams he wasn’t supposed to. If he can recruit nearly as well at VT, he will have more talent than every team in the league except maybe Miami and Clemson, so he will likely win a lot of games. I’m not sure why I have to argue that the Big Ten is better than the ACC and it’s harder to win in the Big.
You don’t have to argue anything. No one hates him (least not me). Just like saying, “he won 34 games the last 3 years”, doesn’t mean you love him.
Of course the Big Ten is better than the ACC.
But you nailed my point: he took bad losses (like giving up 360 rushing yards to 4-8 Illinois) like everyone else. And he will continue to just like our new coach sometimes.
The hope is the new guy can mix in some big wins as well.
But he took a lot fewer bad losses than most. And I don’t consider an in conference loss to be a bad loss in most cases. Losing to NIU or Marshall is a bad loss (like ND did) and Franklin didn’t do that. Of course we may see a loss to Marshall next year.
Do very much agree with this - Franklin was a very good coach and has PSU right there regardless of who the opponent was. But the big difference between Coach Franklin and the truly elite coaches like JVP, was his record in the really big meaningful games such as CFP Controlled Games or regular season gaames that were the difference between a shot at the whole enchilada and just a good season. These games are tight for all teams given the nature of them, but under JVP PSU won most of the close ones in the 4th QTR when all the chips were on the table, but sadly, James seemed to be right there, and in position, at about the same rate as the great ones, but seemed to lose the really big, close games in the 4th QTR time after time where the great ones typically one these ones most of the time. The difference between Franklin being and good versus great coach was in these really close uber-important games that we seemed to lose regularly by very thin margins in the 4th QTR.
With 3 auto wins in OOC play. I was waiting for him to schedule the State College and Bellefonte high school teams.
I love your liberal use of the Return key to properly paragraph your latest bout of diarrheal posting
/sHe never beats teams with more or the same talent so Miami and Clemson beat him every year. FSU will start beating him when they get it turned around. Sprinkle in the other loss here and there and he never goes to the playoff. He will elevate Va Tech but he ain't winning a NC and quite possibly never even sniffs a playoff berth. Eventually they will catch on after his obligatory crap season of 7-5 or 6-6 and they will show him the door.
And in the years where he did manage a win over an OSU or UM to potentially make the playoff, he managed to lose to a Pitt, or Minny, or MSU.
Yep gotta burn it to the ground and start over. That’s the fix.
And if he starts beating Miami/Clemson/FSU, we'll just say he had more talent than they did and it wasn't a big win. It's great since we'll be right either way!
Let us know when psu hire a better coach.
You spent 12 years complaining about bad wins and now you are happy with good losses.
I think James will do well at VT in year 1, because it will basically be the Nittany Hokies (or Blue Ridge Lions?) vs. the ACC.
They will be a factor in the ACC in 2026, imo. They'll likely take a loss or two, but they'll be in it.
After that, it will depend on Fla. State and Clemson bouncing back to their usual selves, and Miami continuing to rise, and side-stepping ND in a conference game.... If all that, then they may settle in to the same CJF ceiling as we've witnessed in the B1G. But, those teams aren't the collective equivalent of Ohio State, Oregon, and the weaselrines. Imo.
They will be a factor in the ACC in 2026, imo. They'll likely take a loss or two, but they'll be in it.
After that, it will depend on Fla. State and Clemson bouncing back to their usual selves, and Miami continuing to rise, and side-stepping ND in a conference game.... If all that, then they may settle in to the same CJF ceiling as we've witnessed in the B1G. But, those teams aren't the collective equivalent of Ohio State, Oregon, and the weaselrines. Imo.
Not sure who that was directed to, but I am not one to celebrate moral victories.
He's not beating them if they have the same talent. The best predictor of an employee's performance is their past performance. He is not good enough to win close games where both teams are evenly matched. How much of a sample size do you need? He may be like a blind squirrel and once every ten years pulls off the win like he did at PSU vs OSU then squeak into the playoff only to lose in the first rd after all the Hokies fans hopes are high.
In the current set up the ACC will be lucky to get more than one team in the playoff most years. Right now it’s Miami in most projections. I realize the bar is lower for VT but at some point both Franklin and VT will have higher aspirations. Margin for error for Franklin is at pre-12 team playoff levels - basically has to win every game for a shot.
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Do you remember Penn State losing to Pitt and not making the playoffs?
Not sure what point you are trying to make...that someone with a "bad" loss can still make the playoffs?
PSU should have been in the playoff that year. Won the B1G and beat OSU (who got in because they only had one loss - to PSU). Washington (IIRC) was the other iffy team but Delaney not advocating for PSU didn’t help. Neither did the loss to Pitt but still.
I do see a sample size of 73 games since he's been a head coach where the spread has been between -7 and +7 (ie, relatively evenly matched teams)...he's 38-35 in those games. Say you think that -3 to +3 is more evenly matched...he's 16-18 in those games.
But I'm sure those 38 (or 16) games can easily be explained away that the only reason he won was that he had more talent and he should have won them (even if the numbers don't support it).
Franklin lost to Temple too (ironically Rhule-coached team). Barely escaped App St in the first post Barkley game (ironically Drinkwitz-coached team).
That was still Satterfield.
Sure, but back in those years two loss playoff teams were rare.
Moral of the story.... don't lose to Pitt
And Moral #2...don't get blown out by Michigan. We lose that one in a close one, and we've also got a much better shot.
Okay do you seriously believe Franklin is a good coach in close games where does not have a talent advantage? Hire him back then if he is so clutch. Wow.
If my memory serves me correctly, PSU's DL got run over by Michigan's OL.
As an aside, I just had to chuckle while watching BGJ's presser yesterday when he proclaimed the importance of winning both sides of the scrimmage line.
Why wasn't that imperative when he was at PSU?
I think he’s average, and the numbers back it up. You’re the one claiming he can’t beat any teams if they have similar talent.
I think we can do better…I also think he’s a Hone Run for Virginia Tech.
You are relying on numbers that will tell you teams like Iowa Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan State were all close wins for him based off the point spread. The fact is we had more talent than all those teams. I know you don't want to hear that because that doesn't fit your narrative that Franklin is average versus teams of equal or better talent. Look at the B10 national recruiting rankings over the last 10 years sans the west coast teams. Who had better recruiting classes than PenState? We were no worse than third except for two years, '16 we were 4th and in '21 we were 6th I think. Only Ohio State out recruited us every year and of course we lost to them 9 out of 10 years. Essentially any of these close games Franklin won was against teams with less talent because really only OSU had more talent. I would say Michigan had equal talent. Versus Michigan since 2016 his record is 3-5 and that counts 2020 when Michigan mailed the season in. All other programs had less talent. So you have to isolate his record in those games vs Michigan and OSU and it is horrific. And that's the reason why he got fired. He could not win versus teams of equal or better talent. He will not do it at Va Tech either.
In Franklin’s last 9 losses to OSU and his 5 losses to Michigan since 2016, the lowest that one of those 14 opponents was ranked was 6th. Pretty crazy.
Did Franklin have a huge recruiting edge in the SEC wins at Vandy? The wins in his first few years at PSU while impacted by the sanctions? Did we have one when sweeping Auburn? Beating USC? “He could not win vs teams of equal or better talent”. He certainly did it many times, just not enough for our liking (or goes back to people’s ability to explain it all away while ignoring the numbers…ie “Michigan 2020 shouldn’t count because they weren’t even trying”).
He certainly didn't win enough. You really have to reach to pull out the lousy Brian Harstin Auburn teams (those Auburn teams were both under .500) or USC last year which was a good win for him, hooray. Of course he lost to a much better USC team in the Rose Bowl.
The simple fact is he could not beat (nearly enough) the two power teams in the conference, OSU and Michigan and that is why he is now coaching a mid tier ACC program.