not always, but there was a surplus of them this year that we let go and CHOSE older guys instead
The 2025 Freshmen Class is unreal.
- Thread starter Padsfs07
- Start date
Goodness dude. You’re all over the place. Give me a single line directly explaining your point. You don’t want me to nail you down on one cause you know good and well I’m going to ask you to demonstrate it and you can’t. You essentially started by saying best player wins, then I counter by asking if you stand by that and you became jello. What do you believe? Make it simple and straightforward and we will hold it up to the light.
Yes, I reacted with emotion when we lost by 35, largely due to a star player that we had no apparent answer for
Right, we all did, Preston. You see my point though right? You’re not going to have a consistent view on anything if you sway with every win and loss. If you want to look objectively, you look at a large set of data and see what is says, right?
i made my claim clear, and this is the last thing ill say about it, the team with the better players win 90% of the time, and having the BEST player doesnt HURT, this year a lot of the better players happen to be freshman, AND i feel like majority of the games from here on out we wont have the best player on the floor, doesnt mean we will lose every game, just as a roster i dont understand why we cant have a star to help us when we get in the mud, so we dont have to watch an otega fastbreak three when we need a bucket
I think im losing the thread on what we’re even talking about here.
To sum up my thoughts: I like having elite players at UK. I don’t like when other teams have elite players. Bc then other teams that have those elite players have an easier time beating us.
To sum up my thoughts: I like having elite players at UK. I don’t like when other teams have elite players. Bc then other teams that have those elite players have an easier time beating us.
Team with the better players win 90% of the time, right? And by better players, those are top high school players right?
Nothing wrong with preferences. That’s actually what im trying to demonstrate. The freshman fascination isn’t rooted in fact, it’s rooted in preference. You FEEL like it will give you the upper hand. You like knowing your team has the biggest weapon. There’s nothing wrong with preference.
I’m not saying best freshman, the other fella might be. Just best player
granted with Cal the reverse was true: we got high on how much talent we had, sniffing our own farts, assuming that would lead to an easy W, then we got St Peter’d.
Most champions don’t have the best player. Most champions have actually more balanced scoring. There are some exceptions. There’s a lot I can share about champions and final four teams if you genuinely want to know. I have a very detailed spreadsheet with charts, graphs and scatter plots that track everything from high school ranking, class, continuity, etc for every final four team in the last ten years. I have separate data I’ve tracked that spans 41 years and I’ll definitively say I’ve never heard a single good argument that was anything worthwhile. It’s like the tooth fairy —- if you want to believe a tiny lady drops quarters under pillows you can — but when people start saying you HAVE to believe in the fairy, I hit ‘em with the NOPE. And I ask people to back it up and they usually just get mad and talk in circles or make personal jabs or whatever. I don’t care —- I believe in stating facts.
once again having the best player on the floor doesnt always mean you will win, also clayton? STAR
edey? STAR
knecht? STAR
toppin? STAR
flagg? STAR
otega? role player
see thats the difference
You talking college basketball specifically?
I guess it depends on how you’re defining best player
So you’re just going to keep evading? Everytime you say something, I ask a follow up and then you move to the next door.
My claim is very clear:
YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A FRESHMAN OAD
Your claim is all over the place, and you won’t be nailed to anything lol. This is a logical fallacy known as special pleading. If you want to make a direct point, I’ll debate you. Otherwise, I’m assuming you no longer contest my claim.
To oweh’s credit he is absolutely capable of superstar performances. I know he’s been pretty mid this year but he put the team on his back 2x vs OK last season and when we say “star”, isn’t that what we mean really? A guy who can take over a game on his own?
i told you my claim like 4 times
im not trying to debate you, these last 2 years as a uk fan FOR ME have been not enjoyable, and you cant deny how i feel because its ME
Well, it won’t matter how you define it. That’s precisely my point. If you said:
- Best player is the #1 NBA Draft pick?
- Best player is the #1 HS player?
- Best player is the NPOY?
- Best player is the #1 portal player?
Etc.
I can tell you definitively, the national champions are not built around one player by and large. Very few champions had anyone that would meet any of those criteria. Trust me on that —- if you don’t, I’ll send you a list of every starter who won a title since 2016 and let you look at it.
Well, that’s the thing. All you had to do is say it’s your preference and your feeling. I don’t debate people’s preferences. When you were saying we NEED a OAD, that’s not preferences —- that’s you stating something factual, so I set out to debunk it —- which is extremely easy, because it’s clear as day. I also PREFER to have a good freshman, so we agreei told you my claim like 4 times
Well look at our last 4 titles. 3 of the 4 would meet those criteria (not ‘98)
‘78: we had SEC POY Givens
‘96: we had SEC POY Delk
‘12: we had #1 NBA Draft pick AD
where in that statement did i say anything about one and donesWell, that’s the thing. All you had to do is say it’s your preference. I don’t debate people’s preferences. When you were saying we NEED a OAD, that’s not preferences —- that’s you stating something factual, so I set out to debunk it —- which is extremely easy, because it’s clear as day. I also PREFER to have a good freshman, so we agree
the only reason i dont PREFER these last couple years is because of a couple things, the skill drop off isnt pleasing to the eye, we dont blow anyone out, and our regular seasons have been underwhelming, you cant keep having 13 loss seasons and expect to build a KENTUCKY program with bad recruiting
You already conceded the debate. You acknowledged it’s your preferences and I respect that you are providing an emotional response to losing and that’s ok. I do it too, we all do as fans. Objectively, OAD don’t mean
, but if fans feel better having them that’s ok.
SEC POY is the best player? Wouldn’t that be the best player in the conference? Wouldn’t NPOY be the barometer if you’re using accolades to decide best player? Strangely, then you switch methodology and decide #1 NBA draft pick is the best player for Davis? Do you have a consistent methodology here, or you just pick whatever you like? That doesn’t seem like an honest way to evaluate anything.
Now, you could say all those players are talented. Sure, we all agree you need talent —- that part really isn’t the topic, is it? The topic is the need for OAD and you already said you don’t think you need those either—- I think you’re just saying you want talent and everyone does.
im sure stanford wouldve beat louisville without okorie right? or do they not matterYou already conceded the debate. You acknowledged it’s your preferences and I respect that you are providing an emotional response to losing and that’s ok. I do it too, we all do as fans. Objectively, OAD don’t mean
or acuff vs houston
or thornton vs us last year
having a star guy like that WINS you games
I’ll share something here:
Spanning starters on every final four team in the last decade, and using Rivals as the recruiting service:
Did you know there are more than double the amount of entirely Unranked former high school players than there are 5 stars?
Did you know there are nearly four times the amount of 4 stars compared to 5 stars?
Did you know that there are more 3 stars than 5 stars?
Did you that ZERO top ranked high school players have won a championship in that era?
Spanning starters on every final four team in the last decade, and using Rivals as the recruiting service:
Did you know there are more than double the amount of entirely Unranked former high school players than there are 5 stars?
Did you know there are nearly four times the amount of 4 stars compared to 5 stars?
Did you know that there are more 3 stars than 5 stars?
Did you that ZERO top ranked high school players have won a championship in that era?
I don’t do hypotheticals of that sort. Literally no one knows, can’t be tested. It’s just guessing. Gimme facts, debunk me
you want me to give you a fact? okay
louisville beat us on nov 11th ONLY because they had a superstar on their team that we simply dont have, and many losses under pope have came in that fashion, where they other team simply has a DUDE we dont have
like genuinely bro if u fail to see that many of our losses come from the other team having a stud that we lack, than you might be blind
will it take acuff dropping 40 on us for you to realize we need some juice or what
So Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham lost to Oakland because they had a DUDE!!!
So Cason Wallace and Oscar Tshiebwe lost to Kansas St because they had a DUDE!!!
So Oscar Tshiebwe, TyTy Washington and Kellan Grady lost to St. Peter’s because they had a DUDE!!!
^^^^ This is not a rational argument. This is emotional reaction to a loss. Lol, goodness.
A stud like Kohler lol? A stud like Ike? A stud like Veesaar? Goalposts moving very quickly lol
coach cal btw
KNOWN for pooing in the tourney
i actually think pope with reed n them wouldve gone far but ig we will mever know bc pope cant recruit a grape to come here
veesaar
your doing everything you can do nkt mention the top 5 pick on their teamalso coen carr is on msu which is like otega but actually good
BUT BUT BUT DUDES!!!!
in all seriousness, this is the kind of thing I try to point out. If you react to our losses and look for what the other team had, you will change methodology everytime we lose —- it’s not rational.
Dude , you can’t effectively use facts in an argument with someone that doesn’t use facts to form their opinion in the first place. It’s futile.
Wilson? You mean the one that went 5-19?veesaar
also coen carr is on msu which is like otega but actually good
Carr? The 4* ranked 33, below Moreno and Jasper’s ranking? That’s a stud now? Lol, just keep flipping all over the place. Keep throwing things at a wall and see if something sticks right?
Ya know debating with you is getting boring because you don’t seem to have any specific views about anything and when you’re backed into a corner you have no facts. I’m done here unless you can bring something to the table
u do realize most of our losses this and last year were bc the other team has better players
which is why i made a ton of money this and last year on betting our games bc theres some games we just dont have it
I know. For me, this is like doing curls with 5 lb dumbbells, it’s just a light leisurely workout lol
Facts, please or I’m out…you have something to bring to the table or I go bye bye
you say your out but then you come back at me when i say anything
your gonna be having your arms on ur head in shock tomorrow when bama beats us 20+
meanwhile i already know how this is gonna go and have emotionally prepared myself
Uhhhhhhhh the fact that you think tomorrow’s game has anything to do with it shows you don’t get the point to begin with. You keep thinking one-game examples mean anything compared to 41 years of data.
And for the record, I picked Bama tomorrow. At least know what you’re talking about…sometimes. And, no, I’m giving you one more post to give me some kind of facts that refutes my point or I’m done for tonight. I can only debate your emotions for awhile before I start feeling like I’m talking to my wife.