The argument against a new weight class between 197 and HWT

[Sett1997]

Kueter and AJ are 240

Only because they are trying to bulk up because there is no class for their size. You realize A.J .wrestled 97 last year. If you watched the match that A.J . lost this year it was only because the guy outweighed him by so much. Guy just pancaked him on everything he tried to do. Ben has the same problem.

 

[Sett1997]

130, 138, 146, 152, 160, 168, 174, 184, 197, 220, 285
Might need a few tweaks in the lower weights, but I think something on this direction would be beneficial.

That looks good!

 

[Sett1997]

2002,04 Tom Rowlands Ohio State
2009 Mark Ellis Missouri
2012-13 Tiny Nelson Minnesota
2016-18 Kyle Snyder Ohio State
2019 Anthony Caesar Penn State
2024 Greg Kerkvliet Penn State
2026 will be a small heavyweight as well.

if a 220-225 weight class were available all those above would have wrestled it.
Pretty sure on Ellis of Missouri…

I Googled 2 wrestlers. Tony Nelson weighed 270 ish when he won. Kerk was between 240-250.
Did you research this at all?

 

[Libertylover]

This is like asking, "Is an Olympic gold medalist judoka more athletic than Micah Parsons?".

Everything is relative. Hifumi Abe is a better athlete at his sport than Micah Parsons is at his. Takanori Nagase, better athlete at his sport than Micah Parsons is at his.

Why does everyone who wrestles 220 and up have to be a freak like Parsons. It’s about having a reasonable class for the guys that naturally fall in the middle of that huge weight discrepancy. If we find decently athletic true heavyweights, it will be easy to find even better athletes for 220-225.

 

[el dub]

That looks good!

167… FIFY.

 

[Sett1997]

167… FIFY.

Ty @el dub.

 

[Corby2]

Only because they are trying to bulk up because there is no class for their size. You realize A.J .wrestled 97 last year. If you watched the match that A.J . lost this year it was only because the guy outweighed him by so much. Guy just pancaked him on everything he tried to do. Ben has the same problem.

How much do you think Feldman weighs? AJ beat Taye who's 265. Carroll who's around 230 also beat Taye. 230-235 is about your average HWT.

 

[Hawx224]

While we’re at it let’s add in super heavyweight for 285+

 

[_Mjolnir_]

Many of you simply are NOT reading. There ALREADY IS a 220 weight in high school. This weight class is NOT full of talented wrestlers. It simply is not. I am not stating an opinion. The numbers are easy to find. Are you guys saying that kids aren't wrestling it in high school because there isn't a 220 in college? Because that may be the dumbest argument I have ever heard....The only thing dumber is saying that these guys would all of a sudden appear and wrestle in college when they didn't wrestle in high school...

Look, if these weight classes (195, 220 and 285) were swimming with numbers and talent, I would understand the argument. The simple truth is they are NOT even close. Again, google is your friend. Spend a few minutes looking at the high school participation numbers and then take some time to actually look at the results of major high school tournaments in these weight ranges. Again, nothing I am stating is opinion, the numbers are what they are...

Wrestling see's a high number of attrition in high school due to kids that grow into their bodies end up growing out of Wrestling. I'm 6'2" and went from low 170's to 205 from 16 year old to 18/19 year old kid. Solid frame very little body fat.

Look at the major sports and they are littered with 6ft plus kids who end up growing very similar to me. By college its hard to find a kid under 6ft that plays football, basketball or baseball. Plenty of talented athletes that range in the 190 - 220 range. Wrestling at the college level doesn't grow with that demographic of athletes.

If i'm that kid why do I stick with wrestling if the opportunity shrinks the older I get? Wrestling is structured for the 5'5" - 5'10" guy.

 

[Sett1997]

How much do you think Feldman weighs? AJ beat Taye who's 265. Carroll who's around 230 also beat Taye. 230-235 is about your average HWT.

A.J. is a freak athlete. Snyder won heavyweight too at around 220. Olympic gold medalist. You see any of them them beating Gable or Wyatt? Gable 265 Wyatt 255. A.J.lost because he's too small for the weight and too big for 97.
Feldman weighs 240 plus in season.
Parris is 275
Other than Snyder these guys can't compete with elite heavies.
You really think there shouldn't be a weight class between 97 and 285? That's 88 pounds!
When all other classes are 8- 13 pounds difference?
You are right, they can wrestle hwt. The odds of being a NC are not good unless you are Kyle Snyder.

 

[Sett1997]

Not trying to be a wiseguy or anything, Just not sure of the logic or fairness of not having a class in the 220ish range. It's one more match or adjust the whole weight table. How hard is that?
Seems like common sense to me.

 

[cjr1310]

So move 174 up 3 lbs and eliminate 184 and bump 197 8lbs. So where would guys like Angelo McEnelly Sinclair Rocco Ryder go?

I think those weights are silly but by your standard for why there’s no need for a 215-220 class they just wrestle 205 right? So there’s not a weight class that fits them well, they can still wrestle the bigger guys right?

 

[cjr1310]

Not trying to be a wiseguy or anything, Just not sure of the logic or fairness of not having a class in the 220ish range. It's one more match or adjust the whole weight table. How hard is that?
Seems like common sense to me.

I like adding an 11th weight as it makes dual criteria really easy. If the score is tied the team that won the most matches wins.

 

[el dub]

Ty @el dub.

lol I was trying to quote the post you replied to. Sorry about that.

 

[Corby2]

A.J. is a freak athlete. Snyder won heavyweight too at around 220. Olympic gold medalist. You see any of them them beating Gable or Wyatt? Gable 265 Wyatt 255. A.J.lost because he's too small for the weight and too big for 97.
Feldman weighs 240 plus in season.
Parris is 275
Other than Snyder these guys can't compete with elite heavies.
You really think there shouldn't be a weight class between 97 and 285? That's 88 pounds!
When all other classes are 8- 13 pounds difference?
You are right, they can wrestle hwt. The odds of being a NC are not good unless you are Kyle Snyder.

You said AJ lost because the guy outweighed him by so much. AJ is 235-240. And Feldman 245. No I don't think it's needed at all. Just because it's 285 doesn't mean they weigh that. In the Top 33 you can count on 1 hand the # of guys above 270

 

[Corby2]

I think those weights are silly but by your standard for why there’s no need for a 215-220 class they just wrestle 205 right? So there’s not a weight class that fits them well, they can still wrestle the bigger guys right?

I don't think people realize most guys are 230-240. We don't have many above 270.

 

[cjr1310]

I don't think people realize most guys are 230-240. We don't have many above 270.

I’m sure you’ve seen far more official weigh in weights than I have but anecdotally that seems light. Keuter weighing in the 230’s looks smaller than most opponents and Snyder at 225 looked way smaller. 240-250 would be much more believable to me.

 

[Sett1997]

You said AJ lost because the guy outweighed him by so much. AJ is 235-240. And Feldman 245. No I don't think it's needed at all. Just because it's 285 doesn't mean they weigh that. In the Top 33 you can count on 1 hand the # of guys above 270

A.J. wrestled 97 last year. He's bulked up 43 lbs in one year!! He can't hold 97, so he has no choice but to try and get to size to compete.
That's like Kennedy going to 217 in one year from 174 then wrestling guys at 225-230.
Ughh!
I'm out.

 

[chuck285]

We don't need a weight between 197 and HWT. It's fine the way it is. 225lb guys have won HWT recently

And I can throw a basketball full court and make it once out of 50 tries. It can happen. So go back 30 years and show how many 225 lbs have won national titles?? I'll take a really good 285 against your 225 any time.

 

[chuck285]

Okay, if you want to make it competitive limit the 285 down to 260. Then those 285 have to cut weight as much as a 225 have to add 60 lbs. to compete. Years ago Iowa State had a 400 lb. and they had to change it because of a couple of hwy weights!!

 

[chuck285]

You said AJ lost because the guy outweighed him by so much. AJ is 235-240. And Feldman 245. No I don't think it's needed at all. Just because it's 285 doesn't mean they weigh that. In the Top 33 you can count on 1 hand the # of guys above 270

So why have a limit? Anything over 200 is open to all!

 

[Corby2]

A.J. wrestled 97 last year. He's bulked up 43 lbs in one year!! He can't hold 97, so he has no choice but to try and get to size to compete.
That's like Kennedy going to 217 in one year from 174 then wrestling guys at 225-230.
Ughh!
I'm out.

So what about when you said he lost because the guy weighed so much which isnt true People just make stuff up to fit the narrative.My opinion is another weight class isn't needed

 

[Corby2]

And I can throw a basketball full court and make it once out of 50 tries. It can happen. So go back 30 years and show how many 225 lbs have won national titles?? I'll take a really good 285 against your 225 any time.

And what people don't understand is HWT isn't the 270+ guys anymore. Taye is big and hows that working for him. He was much better at 230 then he is 270

 

[Corby2]

I’m sure you’ve seen far more official weigh in weights than I have but anecdotally that seems light. Keuter weighing in the 230’s looks smaller than most opponents and Snyder at 225 looked way smaller. 240-250 would be much more believable to me.

Kueter is weighing in 240. I'm not guessing on weights while most here are.

 

[GLC1969]

Why not just have scratch weights and pair everyone up like a youth tournament. I guess in today’s world we change the rules if we dont like them. Wrestling is unique because of weight classes. Where will you find a 125lb 25 year old winning a national championship. I hear the word evolve how about assimilate. This is coming from a guy who’s high school and college weights have been eliminated.

 

[Hawx224]

I’m not saying adding a weight is right, but it is interesting that we make a big deal of guys moving up or down a class at the lighter weights but suddenly when it’s heavyweight way bigger differences are just fine

 

[lisa morales]

Ferrari throws like a girl. Not much of an athlete.

 

[MSU158]

I’m not saying adding a weight is right, but it is interesting that we make a big deal of guys moving up or down a class at the lighter weights but suddenly when it’s heavyweight way bigger differences are just fine

It is a simple example of supply and demand. I guarantee that if the high school level was loaded with, not only talent, but high participation numbers in the 195-220-285 range, college would eventually adjust. However, that simply is NOT the case.

After that, 285 is really more about inclusivity than weight disparity. You could probably make the weight class 245 and only hurt a VERY SMALL percentage of dedicated high school wrestlers transitioning to the college level. A perfect example is NFL linemen. They spend so much time trying to get to and maintain a weight over 300, but MOST lose a ton of that weight after they retire and would easily make a 245 weight limit if they spent the time to get in shape.

Simply put, the percentage of wrestlers that are anywhere near 285 with the low body fat numbers that most of the other weight classes have is miniscule, if not truly nonexistent...

 

[Tiltman]

Let’s not add another heavier weight where a large majority of the matches are boring 3-1 matches. No thanks. College wrestling is already becoming boring with the amount of ducking and stalling in matches. Don’t add another reason to not watch it.

 

[T8KUDWN]

I don't think people realize most guys are 230-240. We don't have many above 270.

Freestyle has 86 kg (189.2), 92 kg (202.4), 97 kg (213.4) and 125 kg (275)

 

[MSU158]

Freestyle has 86 kg (189.2), 92 kg (202.4), 97 kg (213.4) and 125 kg (275)

Yeah, but they aren't worrying about roster limits, scholarships and 300+ teams fielding full lineups between NAIA, DIII, DII and DI. Many of the smaller schools would be pulling a PSU and begging a Jimmy Lawson type on the football team to come wrestle...

 

[Stick Kitty]

Freestyle has 86 kg (189.2), 92 kg (202.4), 97 kg (213.4) and 125 kg (275)

Did they ask MSU for the "facts" prior to installing these unnecessary classes?

 

[Stick Kitty]

Yeah, but they aren't worrying about roster limits, scholarships and 300+ teams fielding full lineups between NAIA, DIII, DII and DI. Many of the smaller schools would be pulling a PSU and begging a Jimmy Lawson type on the football team to come wrestle...

20 years ago I can see a certain point here But given NIL, you really are just now moving the goalposts outside the stadium just to argue that 5'2 guys deserve more privileges and options to compete in a sport than 6'2 guys.

 

[MSU158]

20 years ago I can see a certain point here But given NIL, you really are just now moving the goalposts outside the stadium just to argue that 5'2 guys deserve more privileges and options to compete in a sport than 6'2 guys.

The goal posts haven't moved in the slightest. They have been pilastered 60 feel down with them being 6' in diameter....

NIL? You think the NAIA, DII and DIII are giving ANY money to their wrestlers, let alone a new weight class where they would be lucky to get state placers filling that weight class? CTFO...

Also, I am not remotely close to 5'2. I am definitely NOT tall, but I am closer to 6'2 than 5'2....with that said, my argument here has ALWAYS BEEN strictly about the numbers. How many kids wrestle that weight in high school and how many of them do it at a level consistent with college level talent(especially DI).

Personally, I would be completely fine with adding a weight class between 197 and 285, as long as they also add at least 1 where, BY FAR, most of the actual wrestlers transitioning to college wrestling fit...

Finally, how many other sports are there where they cater SOLELY to taller athletes. Should there not be a sport where some truly great athletes that have NO CONTROL over their height can thrive????

 

[Stick Kitty]

The goal posts haven't moved in the slightest. They have been pilastered 60 feel down with them being 6' in diameter....

NIL? You think the NAIA, DII and DIII are giving ANY money to their wrestlers, let alone a new weight class where they would be lucky to get state placers filling that weight class? CTFO...

Also, I am not remotely close to 5'2. I am definitely NOT tall, but I am closer to 6'2 than 5'2....with that said, my argument here has ALWAYS BEEN strictly about the numbers. How many kids wrestle that weight in high school and how many of them do it at a level consistent with college level talent(especially DI).

Personally, I would be completely fine with adding a weight class between 197 and 285, as long as they also add at least 1 where, BY FAR, most of the actual wrestlers transitioning to college wrestling fit...

Finally, how many other sports are there where they cater SOLELY to taller athletes. Should there not be a sport where some truly great athletes that have NO CONTROL over their height can thrive????

Counter point is I would argue there are too many lightweight classes and it waters down the current product. Giving one back to upperweight thins that out. Imagine how great the NCAA final would have been if classes were say 120, 130, 140, 150, 165, 180, 195, 210, 230, HWT is unlimited.

Plus how many great NCAA finals would have a 210 or 230 class. We don't even know the athletes we have missed out on that we will never hear about because there were forced out of a sport geared towards smaller men.

Example. Ig argue the last 125 & 133 classes where Drake was runner up were not very packed with great wrestlers. To the point where combining them wouldnt have hurt my feeling because it was a less product. Look how much this board debated Spencer vs RBY. Well if given my way we wouldnt speculate. Also think about adding Haines to the other studs at 184 that would make 180.

 

[MSU158]

Did they ask MSU for the "facts" prior to installing these unnecessary classes?

Freestyle has 6 weight classes for the Olympics. This is probably the worst possible argument you could possibly use to argue adding weight classes to college wrestling...

 

[TherealGrip220]

I have been a big advocate for adding a 210/215 pound class for years if possible to add an 11th weight, if there's no chance on adding an additional weight then the weight classes should be adjusted and this is the way I see it.

This is the 10 weight class layout I think would work best

127,134,142,150,158,169,180,193,210,275

This would be my 11 weight class layout

124,130,136,144,152,160,170,182,195,210,275

 

[Stick Kitty]

Freestyle has 6 weight classes for the Olympics. This is probably the worst possible argument you could possibly use to argue adding weight classes to college wrestling...

I believe the point was the recognition of higher weights being recognized even with lesser classes. But fine, use the Non Olympic weights. Whatever.

 

[MSU158]

I believe the point was the recognition of higher weights being recognized even with lesser classes. But fine, use the Non Olympic weights. Whatever.

It is STILL a disingenuous argument. You aren't talking about weight classes where 18-24 year olds need to come straight out of high school to fill rosters. You are talking about every country in the world inevitably providing 1 solitary person to represent their entire country at that weight. Even then there are a TON of countries that can't even get 1 guy good enough to do so...

 

[T8KUDWN]

Yeah, but they aren't worrying about roster limits, scholarships and 300+ teams fielding full lineups between NAIA, DIII, DII and DI. Many of the smaller schools would be pulling a PSU and begging a Jimmy Lawson type on the football team to come wrestle...

Maybe some adjustments would have to be made with roster & scholarships, but I don't believe any level would have a hard time filling a 220 pound weight class.