I personally don't think 13 was too many, but it is a coach by coach basis. To put a hard number of years count would make me second guess our admin quite heavily.
The Case for Optimism
- Thread starter 7th Cir. Cat
- Start date
I agree on what you wrote — the job is hard, and it’s hard to get kids to come here.
However, I also think that @JournCat was right , and that CCC thought he’d get higher-ranked kids, and quicker.
The story is that THT did not go to Illinois bc Ayo and THT are not buddies and Ayo said Illinois had to choose between them and Illinois took Ayo. I mocked many an Illinois fan for letting a kid run recruiting.
I agree that Collins felt he would be able to land local talent and create some sort of pipeline where Chicago kids who could qualify would want to play for NU. That has not happened because for whatever reason, Chicago and Illinois kids for the most part don't have any loyalty to the state. Collins should know this because he was the kid from the North Suburbs who spurned Illinois to play at Duke.
The day Collins was announced, I told anyone who would listen that this was a fascinating experiment by a young and strong headed coach. Collins was going to try to put in a system that utilizes superior players to dominate at a program where recruiting is developmental. Then he came in and made it work until he made the tourney but even that is not all on Collins because the decision to play at Allstate and to phase in the practice facility crippled his recruiting and then the poor performance of the team hurt it even more. That said, he has more talent on the roster after the depleted Jr. and Sr. classes than NU has ever had and honeslty, given the state of the program recruiting the Jr. and Sr. classes (both before the tourney and for Gaines year - freshman year at Allstate and practicing at Bloomquist), the downturn was not surprising. IMHO, the only failure that Collins has had to date is the inability to land a top 20 nationally PG who is quick enough to defend the Ayos of the world and can score 15 ppg. This is where the loss of Lathon was a blow to Collins and his staff that they still have not recovered from. I thought that the kid from Valpo would have helped huge at this position in a year but admissions apparently took care of that.
True and it happened with DePaul when Aguirre came on board and followed by Cummings, Dillard, and ...
I would say at least 8 years, which would allow all of his first four recruiting classes finish their four years.
That seems reasonable and rational. So, that's two more seasons. Next one doesn't look promising. Let's hope he uses the time to develop younger players wisely and doesn't rely mostly on graduating players.
Great post. I too am surprised how much Collins has struggled to land a true point/lead guard, considering he has BMac’s career to show as an example. Any top prospect who wants to run a Big Ten offense has PLENTY of room to do so in Evanston.
He put all his post-BMac eggs in the Lathon basket, and I think we'd have been thrilled to have him running the team for 4 years.
[sigh]
He struggled there because no one wanted to ride the pine behind BMac, and then his first and second string PGs went down last year. We'll be just fine at that position this year; it is the other positions I am worried about...
DePaul went pretty deep into the tournament right before Aguirre came on board. First round NBA draft pick Dave Corzine, Joe Ponsetto, Randy Ramsay and the rest were pretty good...they used to split games with those great Marquette teams.
Who do you expect to be the starting lead guard? The combination of Buie/Greer, at least as of now, projects to be one of the weakest point guard rotations in the Big Ten. Not saying they can’t be good eventually, but I don’t see how you can so easily say “we’ll be just fine at that position this year,” especially on a relative basis within the conference.
Way more to the Ayo/THT story. It was not Ayo who nixed the recruitment. It was above him and involved deep feelings between the families, not between the kids. Let’s just say that you don’t mess with a father’s daughter.
However, it came down to Illinois having to choose and they made the right choice. Ayo has been great for the program. Much higher quality kid and an ambassador for the program.
Tevian Jones was Rivals #86 and is primed for a big year. One year earlier, Trent Frazier was Rivals #95 and he has played well. Yes, I know he was 2017, but he is only going to be a junior and is a major part of the program.
Giorgi was not ranked at all due in part to his Euro background and late arrival to US but he is a top 100 type, perhaps even higher. Don’t care about rankings in his case. Best footwork for a big at Illinois in years. Set freshman scoring record with 35 against Rutgers. He can play. Andres Feliz was the #1 juco point guard in the country.
A lineup with Kofi, Giorgi, Jones, Frazier and Ayo with Feliz, Griffin, Williams and Kipper off the bench may finally allow Illinois to compete at a higher level after some tough years.
2020 class is important for the program. Miller and Kalkbrenner would be a good start. In on a lot of good players. Need to close.
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There never should have to have been a choice. Both wanted to commit to BU. Folding to the pressure is a bad look and will cost BU with Simeon kids going forward.
If Ayo and Illinois have a good year it's really not going to matter to the public league coaches. I think Underwood has pretty good people skills, entertaining guy, it won't be a problem like it was for DePaul years ago.
Haven't run into that term following NU basketball.
Might that be something Coach Collins and his staff could pursue?
Specifically Simeon HS. Arguably, the top program in the State. CPS is a cess pool, BU’s people skills ( if he has them as you claim) are of minor consequence. It’s the AAU Coaches that run the show in Chicago.
Simeon was the top in the state. Low on talent in the near term. As you said, AAU coaches run the show these days, and for better or worse Underwood staked himself to the Irvins in that Ayo/THT episode. No idea if it will pay off in future roster building, but we will see shortly in this 2020 class.
Meanwhile, I read in the paper that Collins has recently opened a pipeline from Loyola lacrosse! Guess he’s playing chess while the rest of the conference is playing checkers.
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Yep, and BU is signing a European sight unseen. I guess after the Georgi signing might strike it rich twice. If neither The LAX Europe player work out, you got the European for 4 years.
Btw, if your boys don’t make the tourney this year in a weaken Big and Ayo’s last year, BU may not have to worry about which AAU coach he hitched his wagon too.
You are absolutely correct. I don’t think BU would be shown the door prior to his fourth year, but if he can’t get a team dancing this season it’s hard to see how they would next year once Ayo leaves. But it’s nice to have high expectations again, and I’m thankful that we aren’t willing to give a floundering coach 8+ years.
And that is why the NCAA is trying to break the AAU....
https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...ation-period-changes-peach-jam-aau-basketball
2013, which is completely unacceptable and nearly unprecedented in the school’s history. Also the reason we relieved the former coach of his duties after five seasons. He left a hole for BU, who’s had to work like crazy to turn over the roster and lost two seasons doing so. Year 3, time to see if he’s managed to dig himself out. If he hasn’t done it by Year 4, he’ll be gone, as he should be.
You guys sure have different standards for your basketball coach than you do for your football coach.
Check that. Year 4. If Lovie hasn’t done it by Year 4, he won’t. And he should be gone.
(Spoiler alert: he gawn!)
Good luck getting anyone with even a decent resume after firing a Super Bowl Coach after 4 years.
I’m confused, I thought the consensus on these hallowed boards was that he is a bad coach. (He certainly appears to be, no argument from me on that point). But yet it would be a foolish move to get rid of him, because nobody else would want the job? Can those both be true? I don’t see how.
I agree that hiring a good replacement is a challenge, but that’s always true for historically challenged programs (another example would be Northwestern basketball). I don’t believe that letting a bad coach go is viewed negatively by replacement candidates. They aren’t blind; they can see the current coach is doing a bad job and doesn’t deserve more time (again, see: Northwestern basketball). If Lovie can’t get this bird in the air by Year 4, I can’t imagine how he could possibly after that. And I think that’s probably universally true for all major revenue sports programs in the Big Ten
Illinois football isn’t Alabama and Northwestern basketball isn’t Kentucky. The four years to right the ship rule is a near impossibility for anyone not named Coach K or Dabo. That is why I am a proponent of giving Collins more time. That won’t be a popular opinion on these hallowed boards after next season.
If a guy that took the local team ( at least in the eyes of Illini fans) to the SB can’t get the team at least to the middle of the West who can? Are recruits going to flock to some up and comer Coach with little to no history of turning around a struggling Program. That’s what the Illini are going to get. The mess in CU has not been caused by Lovie and I certainly am not saying he is the ultimate answer, but you have to walk before you run.
The Illinois Administration is probably the least friendly towards their Athletic department as any in the B1G. There is your biggest problem. Reminds me of NU in the dark ages. They bungled the Beckman hire and the gave the ridiculous 2 year contract to Cubit. Lovie was not in a great spot entering his first year. The issue with many Illini fans is they think their place in the sports hierarchy should be much higher than is reasonable in a short period of time. Lovie is battling 25+ years of relative futility. He will probably get canned after another 1-2 Big Ten Win season and you guys will start the cycle again. The faithful will blame Lovie and be irrationally optimistic about the “new” guy.