The conversation needs addressed immediately
- Thread starter Efejle
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+1. The current group, outside of Rojas, look really slow. #8, Ebel is completely over matched and our safeties, eeesh.
You earn playing time in practice. Games aren't auditions.
Yeah, Joe stopped recruiting and the roster turned to shi&. That said it was amazing how as an old man he was able to put on his recruiting shoes again and win two more BIG titles. And we should have been undefeated in 2005 if not for some bs at scum.
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Just like a new coach could not be worse than franklin yet here we are with a much worse coach.
Manske is not even healthy. Doubt he will even finish a game.
your 
elsewhere.I wont claim to speak for the pro manske crowd. I certainly dont think hes the "bomb," but I do know he should play as this year wraps up. This is a pretty unique situation for Penn State to be in...this season is already fully over. I know they'll be old timers on here saying as long as the ball is being kicked, there is something to play for, but whether we finish the year 7-5 or 5-7 doesn't materially matter. What matters now is the future and the coaches should be doing EVERYTHING to assess the future at this point. We'll have transfers out, roster reconstruction, a new chest of NIL funds to distribute. Is Manske a part of the future or not? We can all agree that Becht is moving on with his life's work in 5 weeks, but Manske is a young player. IN fact, I think the coaches really need to start assessing what players all over the roster they want to retain into the future. I know they see them at practice, but wouldn't you like to see them in games before heading into the off-season? If Manske gets a call in the off-season...let's say from his hometown Iowa Hawkeyes and they offer him $500K to go there and compete, we are going to have to decide whether to match that or not. I just don't know how you prepare for this roster reconstruction without knowing who you need to pay and retain and I can't think of a better way to make that assessment than playing them against Big Ten opponents.
Man remember when we had those crappy teams and QB's who could only beat the teams they were supposed to......thank god we moved forward with zero growing pains. LOL, people honestly thought replacing JF would be just that easy and now don't have the balls to take the medicine. It's going to be at least 2 years of this, but we're now at least losing across the board to teams we shouldn't and should. If you wanted him gone, but now don't have the patience to let a new HC get things moving in a different direction.....you better buckle up for a bit.
I think it's a mistake to assume that coaches are not and have not been assessing the roster since winter workouts. The snap counts reflect the results of staff evaluations. I think it's always a mistake when fans think they need to be part of the process. There are consequences to passing over any position player for another that is recognized as currently less qualified than another. Especially one that is a leader in the clubhouse. By all accounts, Coach Campbell has not yet lost the locker room. When he arrived here, he was hailed as a massive improvement over the previous coach in every category. I suspect he and his staff are weighing the decisions very carefully moving forward. Do we bench Tony Rojas too? Rapp? They have no future here either. It's a delicate dance that no coach wishes to engage in (because it means you have had a terrible season).
Here's something to consider. Other than Northwestern, every loss could easily have gone the other way. Do you give up on 8-4? If you do 70% of the teams in America would be emptying the bench Saturday. Coach Campbell will continue to put the team on the field that has the best chance to win on gameday. Every coach has that solemn responsibility to his players. QB is the most visible position and has never not been a source of fan outrage here.
I think he'll continue to start Becht. and find ways to incorporate Manske (if healthy) at increasing frequency, depending on the w-l results until the end of the season.
Campbell needs to keep everyone from this roster who can contribute, because he doesn't have the NIL money to go out and attract top talent. Turning your back on a player that has given you everything for 5 years may be easy for our internet coaches, but I can assure you it more complicated when the decision is actually yours. Its consequences will resonate with the current roster as well as prospects.
Well reasoned response and persuasive. To address a few of the points, however, I think suggesting we don't play Rojas isn't really apples to apples. Firstly, I think we are very limited at linebacker currently so I am not even sure there are options for other guys. I don't think there are 4 star young recruits sitting behind Rojas currently, Manske was. I agree with the exception of Northwestern, the team has been mostly competitive against a very weak schedule. I think at 0-4 in the big ten, the season is over, so the question becomes how to best evaluate the young players. I know they have been evaluating them at practice, playing against a weak roster, but I do think game action in the Big Ten is useful for these kids in terms of evaluation and development. I also think the QB position is unique in substantial ways. You're right, I am not clamoring for them to play young players everywhere, but at this most important position in all of sports, it would be really good to get Manske some run. With the poor run defense, poor line play, everything that isn't working, you're right....we would probably be 1 good QB away from 6-1 or something. If we have potentially talented players not playing at this point, anywhere on the roster, I'd have to question why not? I really don't think this program can afford poor QB play again next year....so it would seem to make sense to get a jump on determining if Manske is the guy or not....locker-room fealty be damned.
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Well reasoned comment. My only disagreement is not giving up, ( though I believe 6-6, and especially 8-4 is a pipe dream), but why continue to play a 5th year QB who is playing like a freshman. Whether injury, better competition, or a head case, it doesn’t matter, Rocco Becht is no good. With all the warts, PSU beats UM if he doesn’t turn it over. Moving on at QB is not giving up. And if every other QB is a Roberson, that’s a larger indictment on HCMC
I appreciate your perspective. I think we just disagree on the idea that the season is over with 5 games to play. I think there are a number of reasons you continue to put the team on the field that gives you the best chance of victory. I understand that many feel at this point that the season is over, I'd suggest the coaches and players would disagree,
Good luck with disregarding your locker-room. Campbell is walking a tight rope. He's not my favorite coach. But I will acknowledge that he's an established figure in the business and he has a definite concern for his players. That goes a long way with players and parents (current and potential ).
Dispite the fact that college players are now highly compensated, no one wants to feel mistreated.
While I don't necessarily think he's the right fit for PSU, I do think he'll handle this carefully and properly.
At least one PSU player's dad has made it publicly known that he does not think too highly of Rocco as the starting QB for PSU... It also probably signals that a certain RB who many of us think has something to offer this team will be transferring after the season. 
Yes, we call that Little League Parent Syndrome FWIW. More often than not those players (2 staffs now) aren't going on to the league. As good as Nick and Kaytron were I get that he didn't see the field much, but he still can't and if you blame the coaches....it's an easy out FWIW. I don't pay much attention to that as People's jumped him in a NY minute. It's a very average RB room to begin with compared to past PSU RB rooms.At least one PSU player's dad has made it publicly known that he does not think too highly of Rocco as the starting QB for PSU... It also probably signals that a certain RB who many of us think has something to offer this team will be transferring after the season.
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You can go all the way back to Paterno. It's just not very common to sit a starter because they're seeing practice and there's a reason one person is starting.
Finally, a post I agree with - There's almost no benefit to start Manske.
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We don’t know. But a better question is why does anyone care? Penn State football went from literally the most important thing in my life every fall for over 40 years to me literally not giving a ****. I used to think it was money that ruined college football. It’s not. It’s greed.
I think you guys are basically saying the same thing, only neither of you can see it.
The issue is the nonsense comparing him to Seneca and saying he couldn't beat Lehigh. Hence "you can be critical without being ridiculous". Becht's career is infinitely better than Seneca's plus he's won 29 games. Give respect when it's earned
In terms of acquisition or putting the most talent they have on the field?
In the off season I was ostracized for expressing doubt that any coach could be omniscient and omnipotent, yet the BWICAC insisted that in one coaching change. PSU had secured one who saw talent where no one else did and then coached that talent up like no other had ever hoped to do. I was then informed that the same coach was the solution to nearly perfect in game coaching and flawless time management,
So for me, it isn't hindsight to suggest there is a talent issue. I was wrong in thinking this roster had a floor of 9 wins. I mean it was always about the schedule. However, I have consistently beat the drum about NIL and mediocre recruiting likely leading to distress when the schedule includes Ohio State, Oregon and Indiana.
The BWICAC in an attempt to salvage their love affair with MC have turned to the timing issue and claimed that a late hiring made normal portal signings impossible. There is some validity to this.
I have not had the luxury of assessing the current roster talent since winter workouts. As such, I think it's a bit presumptuous for me, or any other fan to assume we know better than the staff, who the best players are at each position.
Throwing someone on the field "to see if they are better" is more a parent or fan suggestion as a coach will require results to be earned in practice.
So in short, talent acquisition in the off season and 2027 recruiting class no.
In terms of putting the best current roster talent on the field, yes.
Let me add, it isn't in the coach's DNA to declare with 5 games left that a season is over. This is a perspective and a luxury reserved for fans. Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions.
We can agree or disagree with CMC. What is fact is that he has been successful enough in a very competitive business for more than a decade to acquire a top 20 job (only 64 in the world). I think he's going to succeed or fail on his instincts (good or bad) and he doesn't give a damn what you and I think. Imagine that?
I doubt if Manske is ready willing able to step in and provide any significant upgrade at QB for PSU. But that probably isn't the aspect that is most disconcerting to many fans.
I think there are 2 key items:
1) Becht is not a very good QB - which I think by now everyone knows.
Everyone should have known that from the jump (he was "not a very good QB" for three years as the starting QB at ISU (not terrible, but certainly not very good). As I said at the time - the most certainly "mid" QB in college football. Fans kind of have only themselves to blame for not knowing better - but it is fair to say that fans were also "sold" a bill of goods on the kid.
2) Manske: With PSU's unwillingness to "give him a shot" - Campbell and company is now telling the fans "Manske ain't even close to all that" (because, let's face it, if Manske is even anywhere in the same area code of being a good QB, there would be no reason not to give him some PT in this lost season)
So now it seems abundantly clear that fans were sold a SECOND bill of goods wrt Manske as some super prospect.
And this all comes back to the decision to pass on Grunk - because Becht was the short term answer and Manske was the next big thing.
That was always, IMO, incredibly stupid on the part of Campbell/the coaching staff. Because Becht ain't very good (which was obvious), Manske clearly isn't anywhere close to being "the next big thing", and Grunk is/was a damn good QB. Any one of those things being true hurts. All three? That is a real crapper.
And now, through their actions, they are essentially flashing a big bright light on how stupid that move was.
(Meanwhile, to anyone but someone who can't see past their Gimmee Jimmee hatred - Grunk is balling out big time at VT, which just rubs salt int he wounds)
But that die is - obviously - cast.
Oh, and the QB that was supposed to come in and provide depth for next year (to a roster than has NOTHING behind Manske - a guy who the staff is saying is too bad to even give a shot to) - when that recruit, who most reasoned people felt was a very "meh" recruit to begin with, but many were pumping up as another "diamond in the rough"? - he's now gone too.
Things can change quickly (and they damn well better for PSU wrt the QB position) But when the scenario around the most important position on the field is this clustered, people are gonna' ***** and want SOMETHING done. Otherwise it looks like the staff is clueless - or at least "answerless".
I think there are 2 key items:
1) Becht is not a very good QB - which I think by now everyone knows.
Everyone should have known that from the jump (he was "not a very good QB" for three years as the starting QB at ISU (not terrible, but certainly not very good). As I said at the time - the most certainly "mid" QB in college football. Fans kind of have only themselves to blame for not knowing better - but it is fair to say that fans were also "sold" a bill of goods on the kid.
2) Manske: With PSU's unwillingness to "give him a shot" - Campbell and company is now telling the fans "Manske ain't even close to all that" (because, let's face it, if Manske is even anywhere in the same area code of being a good QB, there would be no reason not to give him some PT in this lost season)
So now it seems abundantly clear that fans were sold a SECOND bill of goods wrt Manske as some super prospect.
And this all comes back to the decision to pass on Grunk - because Becht was the short term answer and Manske was the next big thing.
That was always, IMO, incredibly stupid on the part of Campbell/the coaching staff. Because Becht ain't very good (which was obvious), Manske clearly isn't anywhere close to being "the next big thing", and Grunk is/was a damn good QB. Any one of those things being true hurts. All three? That is a real crapper.
And now, through their actions, they are essentially flashing a big bright light on how stupid that move was.
(Meanwhile, to anyone but someone who can't see past their Gimmee Jimmee hatred - Grunk is balling out big time at VT, which just rubs salt int he wounds)
But that die is - obviously - cast.
Oh, and the QB that was supposed to come in and provide depth for next year (to a roster than has NOTHING behind Manske - a guy who the staff is saying is too bad to even give a shot to) - when that recruit, who most reasoned people felt was a very "meh" recruit to begin with, but many were pumping up as another "diamond in the rough"? - he's now gone too.
Things can change quickly (and they damn well better for PSU wrt the QB position) But when the scenario around the most important position on the field is this clustered, people are gonna' ***** and want SOMETHING done. Otherwise it looks like the staff is clueless - or at least "answerless".
What a bunch on nonsense. We weren't sold anything. Grunk wasn't staying - no way, no how. We didn't 'pass' on him. Our only options were Becht and Manske because Campbell had access to them and needed to put together a team in a short timeframe. If you thought they were great, that's on you. If you want to blame someone, blame Kraft, I'm fine with that.
No one thought Will Wood was an answer and it's fine that he's gone.
We filled a roster with ISU players because that's what we needed to do. The position we're in now is exactly where we were always going to be from the day Campbell was hired. We'll scrap everything at the end of the year and build a roster the way you normally would when you have the time to do it.
And to be honest, had we kept Grunk, we wouldn't be much better than we are right now anyhow.
In terms of acquisition or putting the most talent they have on the field?
In the off season I was ostracized for expressing doubt that any coach could be omniscient and omnipotent, yet the BWICAC insisted that in one coaching change. PSU had secured one who saw talent where no one else did and then coached that talent up like no other had ever hoped to do. I was then informed that the same coach was the solution to nearly perfect in game coaching and flawless time management,
So for me, it isn't hindsight to suggest there is a talent issue. I was wrong in thinking this roster had a floor of 9 wins. I mean it was always about the schedule. However, I have consistently beat the drum about NIL and mediocre recruiting likely leading to distress when the schedule includes Ohio State, Oregon and Indiana.
The BWICAC in an attempt to salvage their love affair with MC have turned to the timing issue and claimed that a late hiring made normal portal signings impossible. There is some validity to this.
I have not had the luxury of assessing the current roster talent since winter workouts. As such, I think it's a bit presumptuous for me, or any other fan to assume we know better than the staff, who the best players are at each position.
Throwing someone on the field "to see if they are better" is more a parent or fan suggestion as a coach will require results to be earned in practice.
So in short, talent acquisition in the off season and 2027 recruiting class no.
In terms of putting the best current roster talent on the field, yes.
Let me add, it isn't in the coach's DNA to declare with 5 games left that a season is over. This is a perspective and a luxury reserved for fans. Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions.
We can agree or disagree with CMC. What is fact is that he has been successful enough in a very competitive business for more than a decade to acquire a top 20 job (only 64 in the world). I think he's going to succeed or fail on his instincts (good or bad) and he doesn't give a damn what you and I think. Imagine that?
We don't know they put the best roster on the field. Is Hansen the best rb? They already cut his reps.
Coaches make personal mistakes all the time. Saban switched qbs. Franklin had barkley on the bench in the temple loss. Obrien had zwinak at rb5 in the uva loss. Derek dey had 20 carries for 40 yds.
We can have opinions. Coaches are human and make mistakes like any profession. But none the less, the decision is made by the coach. Sometimes they know more than the fans.
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