The debate over gun control

WVPATX

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Jan 27, 2005
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reminds me of Dennis Prager's observation that liberals want to feel good while conservatives want to do good. With respect to gun control, liberals seem to want policies that make them feel good, but will actually do very little to reduce the number of murders. Conservatives tend to focus more on what will actually work.

For example, liberals want to ban assault weapons. I'm still not sure the actual definition of an assault weapon (perhaps a scary looking gun would suffice), but these weapons are very seldom used in murders. Liberals want to ban private gun sales or at least force background checks, but there are a myriad of problems (e.g. inheritance of weapons) and these guns are very seldom used in crimes. Gun show sales account for only 3.4% of all weapon sales, for example. If criminals want guns, they don't buy them at gun shows. They are far more likely to use straw purchasers or simply buy them on the streets where a fellow criminal won't do a background check anyway. Liberals want to eliminate semi automatic weapons. Again, with 300,000,000 guns in the country this would mean criminals would have semi's and law abiding citizens wouldn't. That's insane. Liberals want gun buy backs but that won't stop any crime, imo. There are 300,000,000 weapons in this country and criminals will always find a way to get one.

Many gun control measures that would work (much harsher sentences) are loathed by liberals because they feel it would adversely affect minorities. Other measures that would work, including eliminating gun free zones and armed security, are also loathed by liberals because they simply hate weapons.

Harsh punishment of straw purchasers, harsh punishment of crimes committed using guns, harsh punishment of aggravated felony criminals in possession of a weapon, immediate deportation of illegal aliens with a felony record and in possession of a weapon, and elimination of gun free zones would do a lot to stop murders.
 

rog1187

Well-known member
May 29, 2001
69,525
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reminds me of Dennis Prager's observation that liberals want to feel good while conservatives want to do good. With respect to gun control, liberals seem to want policies that make them feel good, but will actually do very little to reduce the number of murders. Conservatives tend to focus more on what will actually work.

For example, liberals want to ban assault weapons. I'm still not sure the actual definition of an assault weapon (perhaps a scary looking gun would suffice), but these weapons are very seldom used in murders. Liberals want to ban private gun sales or at least force background checks, but there are a myriad of problems (e.g. inheritance of weapons) and these guns are very seldom used in crimes. Gun show sales account for only 3.4% of all weapon sales, for example. If criminals want guns, they don't buy them at gun shows. They are far more likely to use straw purchasers or simply buy them on the streets where a fellow criminal won't do a background check anyway. Liberals want to eliminate semi automatic weapons. Again, with 300,000,000 guns in the country this would mean criminals would have semi's and law abiding citizens wouldn't. That's insane. Liberals want gun buy backs but that won't stop any crime, imo. There are 300,000,000 weapons in this country and criminals will always find a way to get one.

Many gun control measures that would work (much harsher sentences) are loathed by liberals because they feel it would adversely affect minorities. Other measures that would work, including eliminating gun free zones and armed security, are also loathed by liberals because they simply hate weapons.

Harsh punishment of straw purchasers, harsh punishment of crimes committed using guns, harsh punishment of aggravated felony criminals in possession of a weapon, immediate deportation of illegal aliens with a felony record and in possession of a weapon, and elimination of gun free zones would do a lot to stop murders.

Hey you forgot changing the 2nd Amendment...they're not sure how they would change it, but they would change it...and it would feel good and all would feel right in the world.
 

moe

Active member
May 29, 2001
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After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn’t Had a Similar Massacre Since.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...hooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
 

rog1187

Well-known member
May 29, 2001
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After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn’t Had a Similar Massacre Since.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...hooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
I don't know - did the suicide rate overall drop? Did the overall robbery rate drop? What happened to the overall homicide rate?
 

DvlDog4WVU

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2008
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After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn’t Had a Similar Massacre Since.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...hooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
2 things here: First, there is nothing in Australia's constitution providing their populace the right to keep and bear arms. Second, Australia doesn't have the violence culture that American culture celebrates in music and film.
 

Mntneer

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Oct 7, 2001
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After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn’t Had a Similar Massacre Since.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...hooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

That's not completely accurate. I know people like clinging to the Australian model but the devil is in the details.
 

TarHeelEer

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Dec 15, 2002
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After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn’t Had a Similar Massacre Since..

"The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase."

Not a chance of that happening here.
 

DvlDog4WVU

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2008
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"The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase."

Not a chance of that happening here.

Sure there is.
Reason for Purchase: Constitution :uzi:
 
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