The derby disqualification

[carl]

Let's not forget that Servis was taken down for a legendary ky trainer who is missing that one key win that will cement his position in the hall of fame by Kentucky stewards. A trainer everybody in Ky wants to do well he is very well liked here.
If this were another ungraded race absolutely the right call. In the ky derby where they now allow 20 the danger card is taken away because putting 20 in exponentially increases the risk and they don't dq Churchill (racing stewards) over this. Furthermore, the derby is unlike other races and should not be compared. Bumps and grinds have been overlooked in this race for years.
Lastly, the stewards rewarded a very undeserving horse with the win. If he was clearly the second best then justice could be served but instead we have multiple horses that can legitimately claim to be better than the "derby" winner.

 

[keefsopeng]

Let's not forget that Servis was taken down for a legendary ky trainer who is missing that one key win that will cement his position in the hall of fame by Kentucky stewards. A trainer everybody in Ky wants to do well he is very well liked here.
If this were another ungraded race absolutely the right call. In the ky derby where they now allow 20 the danger card is taken away because putting 20 in exponentially increases the risk and they don't dq Churchill (racing stewards) over this. Furthermore, the derby is unlike other races and should not be compared. Bumps and grinds have been overlooked in this race for years.
Lastly, the stewards rewarded a very undeserving horse with the win. If he was clearly the second best then justice could be served but instead we have multiple horses that can legitimately claim to be better than the "derby" winner.

Anyone that watches horse racing a lot immediately knew they were was a foul and an inquiry would be made. Servis and Saez knew they were coming down immediately, when they asked them both about neither tried to say Oh it was no big deal we didn't really impede any other horses or the outcome wasn't effected or anything like that. Servis and Saez looked guilty as hell as soon as they showed them on camera. Saez admitted the horse ran out 4 lanes. It was the right call on maiden claimer in June and the right call at the Derby.

I wasn't on Max Security or Country House I was a Game Winner guy. I want Baffert to throw Joel Rosario in the ocean for the trip that idiot gave Game Winner not just yesterday but in both the Rebel Stakes and Santa Anita Derby. I say that to say I don't care who won I was losing anyway but they absolutely made the right call.

War Of Will got f'ed the most. He got a good trip, is a former turf horse who loves the mud, and as soon as he wound up to go home and started to split horses for the lead he gets run over on, pulled up, and hits legs into Max Security at least 3 times. He may have run home no one will ever know. Miracle he didn't go down along with the 7 and cause a catastrophe and a 10 horse pile up Saez and Tyler both did great job's trying to reign the horses back in.

Was Country House affected? Not really. Unfortunately in horse racing that's not how it works you dq one horse the next one moves up and they drop the dq'ed horse down to finish behind the last horse in the field it fouled which was Long Range Toddy. They can't re-run the race although I wish they could.

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

Pretty obvious who lost and who won money in this thread.

I had $500 on the 7 and think it was the right call. I am pissed about not getting my $2250 plus. But, it would have been called in any other race so should have been here as well.

 

[kybassfan]

I had $500 on the 7 and think it was the right call. I am pissed about not getting my $2250 plus. But, it would have been called in any other race so should have been here as well.

Yeah, I don’t see where there was a choice. Look at it this way, you lost that one to history.

 

[BigBlueTom1_rivals]

For all who know racing, I do not. Why did it take jockey's objecting instead of the stewards seeing it live as many of you did. If the jockeys did not object, there would not have been a DQ. Is this common procedure, or should the stewards have made the call without the jockey's objections?

 

[Glenn's Take]

For all who know racing, I do not. Why did it take jockey's objecting instead of the stewards seeing it live as many of you did. If the jockeys did not object, there would not have been a DQ. Is this common procedure, or should the stewards have made the call without the jockey's objections?

That is the one thing I blame the stewards for. Why they didn't put the inquiry sign up I have no idea.

 

[KingOfBBN]

The irony of some on here who cried about the Virginia/Auburn foul at the end of the Final Four now wanting to go by the letter of the law here.

You have to take into account a crowded field on a sloppy track and all of the other years where nothing was said or done about this. There would be very few people clamoring for a DQ if the decision stood and no one filed an inquiry. People would be excited about a chase for a TC but now, you have a horse being celebrated who didn’t even win the Derby and has zero chance at the TC.

 

[mashburned]

If this were another ungraded race absolutely the right call. In the ky derby where they now allow 20 the danger card is taken away because putting 20 in exponentially increases the risk and they don't dq Churchill (racing stewards) over this. Furthermore, the derby is unlike other races and should not be compared. Bumps and grinds have been overlooked in this race for years.

This is what every expert I've heard says, and it makes sense to me. There's a reason why there has never been a DQ in the derby.

 

[UKGrad93]

For all who know racing, I do not. Why did it take jockey's objecting instead of the stewards seeing it live as many of you did. If the jockeys did not object, there would not have been a DQ. Is this common procedure, or should the stewards have made the call without the jockey's objections?

I don't follow horse racing at all, but I like to watch the derby. I'm left wondering the same thing.

Why doesn't the steward call the foul instead of waiting for a compliant?
Do they have to wait for a complaint?
Is the only option to DQ the offending horse? Is there a lesser penalty that could have been applied/enforced?

It seems to me that Country Horse's win will basically have an *astrick* by it's name. My biggest question is how will this effect the stud fees for MS? Clearly he was faster than CH.

 

[Cats_2010]

Lol, No they weren't. They were filed by Pratt on CH and then Jon Court from Long Range Toddy a bit after. Did you not see the interview with Pratt talking about why he filed the objection and the reporter asking him if he thought it should he overturned by the stewards? He even admitted he had a clear run in the stretch and still couldn't catch MS.

I am not sure who filed the original objection but nontheless more than one rider filed the complaint. Also not even sure Pratt Filed the objection but Mott instead.

 

[PhattyJ4UK_rivals309166]

MS not running preakness ...suing, appraling etc etc.


Imo, you man up, win the preakness and Belmont then run your mouth. The way theyre handling it makes me feel no sympathy.

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

I would like to file an objection to this entire thread.

Stewards!?!?!?!?!?!!! Ban all these mofos!!!

 

[KingOfBBN]

Maximum Security not racing Preakness due to TC not being a possibility. Seems like you’d want to win those two races to make a point.

 

[BlueintheBrew]

I am not sure who filed the original objection but nontheless more than one rider filed the complaint. Also not even sure Pratt Filed the objection but Mott instead.

‘I did actually claim foul.’ Winning Derby jockey makes no apologies.

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/horses/kentucky-derby/article230044344.html

 

[BlueintheBrew]

MS not running preakness ...suing, appraling etc etc.


Imo, you man up, win the preakness and Belmont then run your mouth. The way theyre handling it makes me feel no sympathy.

Maximum Security not racing Preakness due to TC not being a possibility. Seems like you’d want to win those two races to make a point.

There is no point in racing a million dollar horse (or any thoroughbred for that matter) 3 times in 5 weeks or even twice in 2 weeks. Particularly when there is no triple crown on the line. It's actually quite dangerous, particularly for younger horses that are still physically maturing. There is a reason all the derby preps are 3 weeks and more out from the Derby. Most horses never race more than once every 5 or 6 weeks, if that often.

They could meet in the Belmont and have a 5 week break, or they can wait for the summer races like the Haskell, Travers, Penn Derby, Indian Derby, WV Derby, Jockey Club Gold Cup, or even the Breeders cup.

 

[homeytheclown]

You people who are saying it was the right call because he left his lane ignore the fact that this happens in nearly every race. If lanes were so important then paint lines on the track, and start them staggered like human races. Admit that "jockeying for position" is just white privilege for the winners. But you can't, so you won't. MS had the lead. As far as I'm concerned it's the trailing jockeys job to avoid wherever he wants to go. Snowflakes think it was the lead jockeys job to be polite, and lose the race. That's why the second I saw the chief steward was a woman and was dithering that there was going to be a bad decision.

You just admitted that the impeding was obvious. If it was SO obvious, why did the decision take so long? It took so long because she was getting her "feels" all in order.

Epic post

 

[homeytheclown]

This is not a good look for the derby at all , the stewards should not have over ruled it

 

[Blue till I die]

Here at the 23 second mark you can see how huge of a swerve MS makes.



Section 12 of rule 810 KAR1:016. Disqualification occurs when a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey."


I dont see how anyone can seriously argue that the rule was not violated

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

Yeah, I don’t see where there was a choice. Look at it this way, you lost that one to history.

I taped it to a 1.75l Derby bottle of Woodford Reserve so I can drink it away over the next year

 

[cawoodsct]

He turned a horse sideways. Correct decision made.

 

[carl]

Maximum Security not running in the Preakness is another knock on his trainer from the establishment. Servis has changed training tactics in that he doesn't run his horses into the ground or train them until they break and it's why his horses don't break down! He is changing the game and not everyone likes that.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Baffert with a rock ‘em sock ‘em quote about the DQ. I’m just a bystander here, no strong feelings either way. But what he said makes me smile when I think of all the “the smart people who know something about racing all think the DQ was an obvious call” posts I’ve seen since Saturday....

 

[KingOfBBN]

 

[Glenn's Take]

Bob Baffert doesn't believe any horse should ever be taken down. He would be fine with the jockeys whipping each other. He is consistent with it at least but I honestly feel he thinks that the only rule should be who gets there first. If you saw Bayern in the BC Classic a few years ago you would probably agree. His horse went straight left out of the gate and took out his best 2 rivals including Shared Belief. He should have been taken down for that. I don't care if it did happen at the gate.

 

[KopiKat]

War Of Will got f'ed the most.

Not unless you actually notice the illegal bumping WofW instigates against Toddy just before the 3/4 pole. This is actually War's first effort to get through. Followed by Max's 1st of 2 successful efforts to swing in front of him, block him. During both cycles, Long Range Toddy's momentum is greatly impeded by contact from War of Will, only the 2nd time being to the fault of Max Security.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Baffert with a rock ‘em sock ‘em quote about the DQ. I’m just a bystander here, no strong feelings either way. But what he said makes me smile hen I think of all the “the smart people who know something about racing all think the DQ was an obvious call” posts I’ve seen since Saturday....

Yeah, these are the same types who echo what a commentator said and then think they’re geniuses. They operate with the arrogance of an independent record store clerk.

 

[Blue till I die]

A Quote from Trainer Kenny McPeek.......Explained Perfectly..... you can change lanes in horse racing you just can’t do it within 1 length of a horses body. The chance of clipping feet and entangling legs taking the horse behind you down and possibly causing tragedy with that horse, your horse and other horses can lead to disaster. Bumping is allowed coming out of the gate, they are bumping bodies not tripping up a thousand pound animal who can easily go down. A jockey floating which is what happened in the Derby is not ok. I have been to thousands of races, have had horses taken down by objection, put up from us objecting. It’s a safe rule. If you have ever witnessed first hand your own horse or your own rider die right if front of your eyes because of unsafe riding, you would understand the need for such rules. You can bump in football but you can’t Target someone’s neck and head. Think of it that way. So many people don’t know the anatomy of horses and how they race, what is affected and the rules associated with it. They think it’s just open the gates and let them go. These riders, these horses train and learn for years how to get it right. It’s not easy. Yes it happened in the Derby but it also happens in 100s of races going on everyday. Rules are broken, calls are made this broken rule just happened to be on national TV and the call was absolutely correct. The tragedy is the stewards not explaining it well and not answering questions.

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

Maximum Security not racing Preakness due to TC not being a possibility. Seems like you’d want to win those two races to make a point.

Agree. Also just saw that Country House is also out, due to sickness.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Country House out of the Preakness. What a colossal eff up this has turned out to be.

 

[carl]

A Quote from Trainer Kenny McPeek.......Explained Perfectly..... you can change lanes in horse racing you just can’t do it within 1 length of a horses body. The chance of clipping feet and entangling legs taking the horse behind you down and possibly causing tragedy with that horse, your horse and other horses can lead to disaster. Bumping is allowed coming out of the gate, they are bumping bodies not tripping up a thousand pound animal who can easily go down. A jockey floating which is what happened in the Derby is not ok. I have been to thousands of races, have had horses taken down by objection, put up from us objecting. It’s a safe rule. If you have ever witnessed first hand your own horse or your own rider die right if front of your eyes because of unsafe riding, you would understand the need for such rules. You can bump in football but you can’t Target someone’s neck and head. Think of it that way. So many people don’t know the anatomy of horses and how they race, what is affected and the rules associated with it. They think it’s just open the gates and let them go. These riders, these horses train and learn for years how to get it right. It’s not easy. Yes it happened in the Derby but it also happens in 100s of races going on everyday. Rules are broken, calls are made this broken rule just happened to be on national TV and the call was absolutely correct. The tragedy is the stewards not explaining it well and not answering questions.

Did Mcpeak explain why they allow 20 starters which is inherently unsafe because there is not room for that many. Yet they continue to pour them into the derby even maidens. I'm with Bob.

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

i agree about being too many horses, but still agree with the DQ.

 

[Blue till I die]

Did Mcpeak explain why they allow 20 starters which is inherently unsafe because there is not room for that many. Yet they continue to pour them into the derby even maidens. I'm with Bob.

You do realize the number of horses in the race had absolutely nothing to do with why MS swerved over 3 to 5 lanes and clipped War of Will during the last turn of the race, right? Surely you understand that

I dont like having that many horses in the race for safety reasons, but in that point during the race , the number of horses did not factor into the reasons MS clipped WOW

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

Clipped doesn't quite cover it for me. It was a moving screen.

 

[wfm101981]

An observation I've made since this happened.

Those who are really knowledgeable horse racing fans, the ones that know the rules and really follow the sport, all seem to agree it was the correct call.

The people angry about the call all seem to come from the crowd that only casually tunes into the sport for maybe a couple Saturdays per year, or who lost money betting on it.

Which side do you suspect is more likely correct?

I unfortunately am an avid horse player/fan. The call was correct. And his placing right under long range toddy was correct as well. He goes directly under the horse(s) he interfered with. Lrt finished 17th so MS goes right under him. The horse that got ruined the most was War of Will. He had a perfect rail skim ride going into the far turn , was just getting off the rail, and looked loaded. He had to check hard, then try and reengage . If MS didnt veer in,Wow woulda had a shot at hitting the board, or at the very least in purse money position. All the ppl who watch the sport just on Derby , Preakness and Belmont stakes days are the ones that think they know more than the avid players and the stewards as well. It was a unanimous decision 3 0 by the stewards.

 

[wfm101981]

Anyone that watches horse racing a lot immediately knew they were was a foul and an inquiry would be made. Servis and Saez knew they were coming down immediately, when they asked them both about neither tried to say Oh it was no big deal we didn't really impede any other horses or the outcome wasn't effected or anything like that. Servis and Saez looked guilty as hell as soon as they showed them on camera. Saez admitted the horse ran out 4 lanes. It was the right call on maiden claimer in June and the right call at the Derby.

I wasn't on Max Security or Country House I was a Game Winner guy. I want Baffert to throw Joel Rosario in the ocean for the trip that idiot gave Game Winner not just yesterday but in both the Rebel Stakes and Santa Anita Derby. I say that to say I don't care who won I was losing anyway but they absolutely made the right call.

War Of Will got f'ed the most. He got a good trip, is a former turf horse who loves the mud, and as soon as he wound up to go home and started to split horses for the lead he gets run over on, pulled up, and hits legs into Max Security at least 3 times. He may have run home no one will ever know. Miracle he didn't go down along with the 7 and cause a catastrophe and a 10 horse pile up Saez and Tyler both did great job's trying to reign the horses back in.

Was Country House affected? Not really. Unfortunately in horse racing that's not how it works you dq one horse the next one moves up and they drop the dq'ed horse down to finish behind the last horse in the field it fouled which was Long Range Toddy. They can't re-run the race although I wish they could.

I dont know why Baffert stuck with Joel Rasario. He usually prefers cali based jockeys. Why didn't he call up Martin pedroza. I belive Victor Espinoza us still out , but baffert has had look with pedroza Rosario for some reason makes Game Winner go 4 wide the while race . Rosario Is decent jock, I just dont know why he does that with game winner. He has won the derby before (Orb), and has rode some good horses.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Country House out of the Preakness. What a colossal eff up this has turned out to be.

Yet still, on all of my social media outlets, you are the only one really crying about any of this.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Yet still, on all of my social media outlets, you are the only one really crying about any of this.

Then you have one big bubble in which you live in. Go look under the Kentucky Derby handles and NBC Sports handles on anything pertaining to this race.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

We should euthanize every horse, jockey and steward involved in this mess..put it behind us....and move forward.

 

[carl]

You do realize the number of horses in the race had absolutely nothing to do with why MS swerved over 3 to 5 lanes and clipped War of Will during the last turn of the race, right? Surely you understand that

I dont like having that many horses in the race for safety reasons, but in that point during the race , the number of horses did not factor into the reasons MS clipped WOW

Being condescending will not serve you well. So, if you need further explanation for my point just ask. It is wrong to cry unsafe conditions when you have entered a race inherently unsafe. It's not logical. War of Will is the only one who has any claim really and their connections didn't cry foul. He also could have been dq for veering down himself while not as far but definitely impeded LRT. I don't think the connections should have cried foul and the Stewards would not have been put on the spot.

Their decision is justifiable as a rules infraction. However it leaves a massive cloud over the Derby. This is not just another race. Baby boy Mott got his Derby handed to him but it will always carry an asterisk signifying the undeserving. Everyone over there wanted him to win one including the stewards.

 

[Blue till I die]

Being condescending will not serve you well. So, if you need further explanation for my point just ask. It is wrong to cry unsafe conditions when you have entered a race inherently unsafe. It's not logical. War of Will is the only one who has any claim really and their connections didn't cry foul. He also could have been dq for veering down himself while not as far but definitely impeded LRT. I don't think the connections should have cried foul and the Stewards would not have been put on the spot.

Their decision is justifiable as a rules infraction. However it leaves a massive cloud over the Derby. This is not just another race. Baby boy Mott got his Derby handed to him but it will always carry an asterisk signifying the undeserving. Everyone over there wanted him to win one including the stewards.

I apologize for being condescending .