The derby disqualification
- Thread starter Mulder14
- Start date
Thanks for the apology, I can see your point but just feel strongly that this is not "any other race" and anything other than something that clearly serves justice for the best horse should be let go. The declaired winner is simply the most fortunate horse because without the bumps he prolly finishes off the board.
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I'm not sure either, Rosario clearly didn't gel with Game Winner, he could never get him to the correct spots. Seems crazy to me that Bob is pulling Irad off Improbable for Mike Smith. Irad in my opinion is the best jock in the world right now. He gave Improbable an outstanding ride in the Derby Improbable just couldn't get the distance. I'm praying he's going to stick Irad on Game Winner.
Wait ... are you telling me that discussion of the derby can still be found three or four days later on forums that are specific to that topic? Wow ... Mind. Blown.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...a584b4-701c-11e9-8be0-ca575670e91c_story.html
Washington Post’s horse racing beat reporter of nearly 40 years disagrees with the decision as well.
Some excerpts
“Racing fans know issues involving interference and disqualifications are not nearly so simple. In a rough-and-tumble sport, horses regularly bump into or veer in front of one another. In most cases, the stewards take no notice and no action. (Probably nobody would have paid attention if Maximum Security had swerved in front of War of Will on the first turn.)
Stewards disqualify horses when a foul has clearly affected the outcome — or when it’s so egregious that it eliminates other horses from contention. Even then, racing officials are often reluctant to take action in big races, just as basketball or football referees don’t want to decide the NBA Finals or the Super Bowl with a whistle.
After watching video of the 145th Derby over and over, I believe the Churchill Downs stewards made a bad decision when they took down Maximum Security’s number and made Country House the official winner. Yes, there was a foul. No, it didn’t merit a historic disqualification
When I watch races and make notes on them, I always try to estimate how much an incident of trouble cost a horse. In this case, I estimated one length. The consequences of Maximum Security’s misdeed could have been catastrophic, but they weren’t. War of Will recovered quickly and resumed his chase of the leader. He had a virtually clear path ahead of him and a quarter mile to catch the front-runner. He accelerated and got within a length of Maximum Security, but the leader repulsed his bid, and in the final sixteenth of a mile War of Will ran out of gas. He faded to finish eighth. Without the trouble, he might have finished fifth. He would not have won.
The other colts who were involved in the chain reaction after Maximum Security’s infraction, 54-1 Long Range Toddy and 71-1 Bodexpress, were going nowhere when the incident occurred. The trouble they encountered surely cost them a higher placing, but they finished 14th and 17th and weren’t going to be contenders under any circumstances.
If Maximum Security had veered into the path of Country House, then defeated him by less than two lengths, there would have been no debate about what the stewards should do. The foul would have cost Country House a legitimate chance to win, and the resultant disqualification would have been prompt and uncontroversial.
But because Maximum Security’s infraction did not affect the outcome, disqualifying the winner was a bit like deciding the NBA Finals on a foul away from the ball.
What purpose was served by disqualifying the winner? If it was to make a statement about the importance of safety in race-riding, the stewards could slap jockey Luis Saez with a significant suspension. But Maximum Security was the best horse in the field, and he deserved to have his name in the record books. Gary and Mary West, who bred and own him, deserved the glory of a Derby victory after 30 years in the business. The bettors who thought Maximum Security was the best horse deserved to cash their wagers.
Certainly, no justice was served by elevating Country House from second place. He had a relatively easy trip in the Derby, sitting outside the leaders and avoiding most of the trouble on the turn. If he couldn’t win the Derby on his own merits, he doesn’t deserve to have the stewards declare him the winner.
Washington Post’s horse racing beat reporter of nearly 40 years disagrees with the decision as well.
Some excerpts
“Racing fans know issues involving interference and disqualifications are not nearly so simple. In a rough-and-tumble sport, horses regularly bump into or veer in front of one another. In most cases, the stewards take no notice and no action. (Probably nobody would have paid attention if Maximum Security had swerved in front of War of Will on the first turn.)
Stewards disqualify horses when a foul has clearly affected the outcome — or when it’s so egregious that it eliminates other horses from contention. Even then, racing officials are often reluctant to take action in big races, just as basketball or football referees don’t want to decide the NBA Finals or the Super Bowl with a whistle.
After watching video of the 145th Derby over and over, I believe the Churchill Downs stewards made a bad decision when they took down Maximum Security’s number and made Country House the official winner. Yes, there was a foul. No, it didn’t merit a historic disqualification
When I watch races and make notes on them, I always try to estimate how much an incident of trouble cost a horse. In this case, I estimated one length. The consequences of Maximum Security’s misdeed could have been catastrophic, but they weren’t. War of Will recovered quickly and resumed his chase of the leader. He had a virtually clear path ahead of him and a quarter mile to catch the front-runner. He accelerated and got within a length of Maximum Security, but the leader repulsed his bid, and in the final sixteenth of a mile War of Will ran out of gas. He faded to finish eighth. Without the trouble, he might have finished fifth. He would not have won.
The other colts who were involved in the chain reaction after Maximum Security’s infraction, 54-1 Long Range Toddy and 71-1 Bodexpress, were going nowhere when the incident occurred. The trouble they encountered surely cost them a higher placing, but they finished 14th and 17th and weren’t going to be contenders under any circumstances.
If Maximum Security had veered into the path of Country House, then defeated him by less than two lengths, there would have been no debate about what the stewards should do. The foul would have cost Country House a legitimate chance to win, and the resultant disqualification would have been prompt and uncontroversial.
But because Maximum Security’s infraction did not affect the outcome, disqualifying the winner was a bit like deciding the NBA Finals on a foul away from the ball.
What purpose was served by disqualifying the winner? If it was to make a statement about the importance of safety in race-riding, the stewards could slap jockey Luis Saez with a significant suspension. But Maximum Security was the best horse in the field, and he deserved to have his name in the record books. Gary and Mary West, who bred and own him, deserved the glory of a Derby victory after 30 years in the business. The bettors who thought Maximum Security was the best horse deserved to cash their wagers.
Certainly, no justice was served by elevating Country House from second place. He had a relatively easy trip in the Derby, sitting outside the leaders and avoiding most of the trouble on the turn. If he couldn’t win the Derby on his own merits, he doesn’t deserve to have the stewards declare him the winner.
No doubt. He knows it. “He has a cough.” What? Bill Mott not wanting to lend further proof of this fraud? Going to try and ride that “Derby winner” and retire him to stud?
The jockey who filed the objection in the Derby was 58 effing years old? It all makes sense now. This whole deal was nothing more than an old man yelling at younger people to "GET OFF MY DIRT LAWN!!!" {And then calling the cops on 'em.}
There is something odd about CH and MS not running the Preakness. That said, I still agree with the DQ. This wasn't a bumping of horses.
A friend of a friend in the racing biz is a recently retired chief steward with 30 years experience and said he called the foul the second he saw it on the live broadcast. Not a woman or a snowflake. Maybe the fact that the stewards didn’t call an inquiry means they were being politically correct until their hand was forced?
Also I thought both the connections of Country House and Long Range Toddy filed objections.
Stewards and Patrol Judges can call an inquiry. Jockeys, trainers, and owners can file an objection. Either way, the stewards then review the tape and make a ruling on whether a foul occurred and the appropriate penalty.
That is very clear, well written and a perfect explanation, I still think it was BS mainly because Country House barely broke stride, and a bunch of horses ended up almost dead even with 1/4 or maybe 3/16 of a mile to go and a clear lane to run. They just didn't get to the line first, Maximum Security did.
It’s well written, from the perspective of whether or not the infraction changed the likely outcome of the race. Clearly Country House was beat and was handed the win due to an infraction that didn’t impede him.
However, the reason for the rule is safety, avoiding more horse (and jockey) injuries and deaths. It’s a strict liability rule. Intent, fault, or actual physical injury aren’t relevant. As a matter of opinion we can argue that the officials should’ve “swallowed their whistles” since no one was hurt and it was the Derby; but the call was correct.
How was Court supposed to know whether his horse was not (hurt) when he filed his objection? Serious question. All Court knew was that Max got his rear legs mixed up with Toddy's front legs. But could he possibly have known for certain whether Toddy had not been stepped on, scrapped painfully during the turn, at the moment when he had to make the choice, whether to object?
New video that claims war of will instigated the whole thing and MS had no choice
https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...TW8F-2rwOz7f1O-77OcE36PdVWvf05Dmn5LhQWpjA2M5Y
https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...TW8F-2rwOz7f1O-77OcE36PdVWvf05Dmn5LhQWpjA2M5Y
Pretty convincing. He literally caused everything. None of this happens if WOW doesn’t do that.
1st it was a cameraman
Then it was a puddle
Now it is WOW's movement
No excuse or reason is going to change the fact that MS served across 4 lanes and clipped another horse, which is a violation and cause for DQ.
It is pretty cut and dry
Then it was a puddle
Now it is WOW's movement
No excuse or reason is going to change the fact that MS served across 4 lanes and clipped another horse, which is a violation and cause for DQ.
It is pretty cut and dry
MS still might have veered out (that can't be assumed one way or the other) however, it was clear then and now that WOW was all up in his *** well before he strayed from his lane. Regardless, poor decision by the stewards then, and even more so now.
And now the jockey has been suspended for not controlling his horse
I dont think I missed the point
I dont think I missed the point
It’s simply doubling down. That’s it. Watch the video. WOW’s Tyler G should never be allowed to race the Derby again.
There’s a reason why WOW’s jockey didn’t file the objection. He knew he caused it.
Fun fact: April 25th, Tyler G. was given 3 days off for careless riding..
http://khrc.ky.gov/Pages/rulings.aspx
http://khrc.ky.gov/Pages/rulings.aspx
Saez: "It wasn't me! It was the horse!"
Stewards: "Don't care."
Video: Wow causes chair reaction in Derby by clipping MS.
Saez: "See! It wasn't me!"
Stewards: "2 week suspension for making us look bad. Wanna try for 2 months? Shut the eff up!"
Stewards: "Don't care."
Video: Wow causes chair reaction in Derby by clipping MS.
Saez: "See! It wasn't me!"
Stewards: "2 week suspension for making us look bad. Wanna try for 2 months? Shut the eff up!"
Or it’s a damn shame that WOW’s jockey anticipated a spot and it wasn’t there, bumping LRT, clipping Maximum Security, and pushing everyone wide.
Don’t forget that
Maximum Security
Tacitus
Country House
Code of Honor
All sat out this race. All of them beat WOW.
Country House still in hiding. [laughing]
Would obviously get smoked in the Belmont.
The Breeder’s Cup is going to be a epic showdown among WOW, Maximum Security, Omaha Beach, and Catholic Boy. Horse racing fans deserve a WOW/Maximum Security rematch in the Belmont.
Looking forward to Monomoy Girl’s return later this summer.
Would obviously get smoked in the Belmont.
The Breeder’s Cup is going to be a epic showdown among WOW, Maximum Security, Omaha Beach, and Catholic Boy. Horse racing fans deserve a WOW/Maximum Security rematch in the Belmont.
Looking forward to Monomoy Girl’s return later this summer.
Love War Of Will. He ran the fastest Preakness since Curlin. We'll never know if he would of got home in the Derby or not? As soon as he wound up to go home he got impeded. Having said all that I still think Omaha Beach and Game Winner are the class of this group of 3 year olds. Game Winner ran 34 yards further than Max Security in the Derby and lost by 3 3/4 lengths. I've already lamented that he didn't get good trips in the rebel or santa anita either. Would love to see him back for the Belmont and see how it goes.
I couldn't be happier for Mark Casse, David Carroll, Kim Carroll, Tyler G, all the connections with Will are great people who deserved a big win and Will himself is a monster of a horse and deserved it. Great day for the horse racing community yesterday.
I couldn't be happier for Mark Casse, David Carroll, Kim Carroll, Tyler G, all the connections with Will are great people who deserved a big win and Will himself is a monster of a horse and deserved it. Great day for the horse racing community yesterday.