If pardon wasn't in foul trouble you'd have seen more of him, but no taphorn, reduction in Sanjay pt. brief minutes for ash. Good play from Lindsey and skelly. Falzon was nowhere, but he will be in the mix. Put law in with the core of ash, falzon, Mac, skelly and pardon and prolly two freshman and that's next year's team. I think Sanjay starts and is the senior leader but your best basketball players will be the kids. Falzon needs to spend the off season getting more arc on his shot, at least one dribble drive move and overall strength.
The future was shown in glimpses tonight.
- Thread starter T_Levine
- Start date
Agree with most of what you said Levine but if Lumpkin starts over Falzone, Rap or even Skelly next season, then the Cats are likely not really for the "Dance".
Scottie has been really good since he was benched vs. MSU. Probably a tough call for Collins, but it seems to have paid off so far. This is the kind of play out of Gavin Skelly that I saw when he was in high school. He is a very skilled and athletic player that we only saw glimpses of last season, because he really was playing a little out of position as a freshman
When Collins has all of the players he recruited on the roster. Can you hold out for another couple of years ?When is the "future" going to get here?
Not getting any younger here...
He's terrible at defense and his shooting ability can't overcome that deficiency.
Not getting any younger here...
In the future.
It was nice to see Skelly and Lindsey offer such good contributions. (SL - 30 mins ... 0 fouls!!)
Next year, if Lindsey can consistently provide just a bit of what we saw against Illinois, it would show his game has completely changed.
Skelly is also ready for more minutes.
Next year, if Lindsey can consistently provide just a bit of what we saw against Illinois, it would show his game has completely changed.
Skelly is also ready for more minutes.
Lindsey is a nice shooter and a really savvy defensive player, as shown by the strip leading to the decisive Tre layup. But I don't think he can start next year without showing more ability to handle the ball and drive inside. I think we need at least three guys in the lineup who can create shots off the dribble. If he can do that along with Law, we'll be very hard to stop.
To me, next year Lindsey would make for a nice long shooting guard next to BMac, with Law starting at the 3 and Falzon at 4, with Pardon rotating with Benson at the 5. I can see Rap getting more minutes as the season progresses. Hopefully we can be a more consistent shooting team.
Agreed on Mac, Lindsey, Law, Falzon, Skelly and Pardon. (We'll see about the (edit to correct number) 3 freshmen, but I assume at least one will be a decent contributor in year 1.) Sanjay will continue to be an emotional leader and contributor, especially as a senior. But it's probably reasonable to assume his minutes will go down as we will have more bodies and more experience at his position. I have always really liked Skelly's energy, passing, defensive effort and strong play near the hoop. I am pleased to see him continuing to come along and get more opportunities recently. He could be an important piece next season.
Unfortunately, it's hard to imagine Ash as part of the "core" next year when he is such a limited contributor this far into his freshman year. He has played 2, 0 and 3 minutes the past three games. In the entire B1G season, he has 3 more assists than I do (and as many made 3's as I do). Ash is barely even used to spell Mac and Tre when they both need it desperately. I expect a lot more out of backup guard--even as a freshman. There will be a lot of minutes opening up with Tre leaving, but I expect them to mostly be filled by Lindsey and Law--and possibly Brown.
Last edited:
Brown is intriguing. Many of us have read about some of the silly numbers he's putting up, but has anyone had a chance to see him in person? SeattleCat, any observations?
Ash concerns me greatly. He is pretty athletic, but he is so small - both length and width. And he has an ugly shot. He got in for a minute the other night and promptly clanked his 15 foot jump shot. It was just atrocious. I simply don't see this guy contributing much other than a few minutes of D going forward. I never expected him to be a star right away, but usually with freshman guards you at least see a glimpse of playmaking ability. He has very little offensive skills - except for that cool dunk in the non-conference part of the season.
I wouldn't sell him short just yet. He played in a competitive h.s. environment and may take a little time to develop into a solid backup for Mac. Is incoming recruit Brown a point guard or shooting guard?
Will Ash be one of the top 7-8 guys in minutes played next season? That's the outer limit of what I would consider the "core." He's a distant #11 out of 11 scholarship players this year with the next guy averaging more than 2x as many minutes per game as him.
I'm not saying Ash won't ever have a bigger role than he does this season, but I am saying I don't foresee him as one of the core guys in our rotation next season--especially with expected improvement from Mac and Lindsey, Law back in the fold and another freshman guard who Collins says, "I expect (Brown) to be able to come in and contend for big minutes as a freshman."
I think Lumpkin will likely start next year, and not just because he's a senior. He is by far the best defensive player on the team. He is consistently matched up against the other team's best scorer, and Collins praises his work after nearly every game. He also seems to make one key 3-pointer in every win (38.7% from three, third on the team).
Hope not, especially with Rap coming aboard. Is 3 points per game what you want from your starting forward?
Well I mean 3 points per game isn't what you really want but the amount of hustle he brings and the fact that he his head and shoulders above everyone else on the team defensively and a pretty solid rebounder is enough to have him slotted as a starter in my book. A side note is even though Falzon had an extremely quiet game I saw him pull down a few very nice boards which shows promise next season once he gets a offseason to lift the youth on this team has me excited and collins and company have seemed to develop the players already on the team because they correct me if I am wrong seem to have made some pretty nice strides from last year to this year (I am ignoring injuries hampering this and cold spells of shooting of course)
Skelly played 5 minutes per game last season in conference play, compared to Ash's 3.7 minutes per game this season. The last few games we're finally seeing Skelly get some action, so I don't see any reason why Ash won't work his way into the rotation next year. The key will be his drive to improve in the offseason, as Collins has shown willingness to play his underclassmen when they are playing to his standards.
CC has not gotten a single one of his kids to being an uppeclassman yet
Not getting any younger here...
I'm not worried about Ash's lack of productivity or even his lack of playing time. I'm talking simply about the eyeball test. He doesn't look like a future solid BIG level player when he is out there.. at least not on offense. And he is too small to be a major factor on D I fear. We'll see. I sure hope I'm wrong.
I would guess more Skelly at 4 with Falzon more a 3 and Law sliding between two and three.
This surprises me. Ash is the one guard on the roster who I've seen play effective man defense against quality guards.
On offense, he's been a decent distributor. He had problems with his handle early.
It's too soon to say he'll be a 20 min per game guy or a future starter, but he's not shown anything to write him off.
You guys are a tough crowd. Good thing these guys are getting a free education out of this.
OK I just want it to be clear - we used to semi-occasionally go to the NIT and now we are acting like it is some big accomplishment to go to the NIT (like football would be for going to a bowl).
I am a far more casual BB fan than FB, even if I've been "following" since 1980; however, it doesn't "feel" like we are a better program, i.e. not a top 50 program vs football moving in and out of the top 25. To me, it appears 'same old same old', decent non-conference record against weak opposition, win a couple of B1G games we don't expect to, lose a LOT of B1G games including the obligatory multi-game streak, and, of course, the annual cough up a hairball game or two or three, and the pants sh1tting in the BTT. Sure these aren't his guys, but Demps and Olah were serviceable players that plateaued.
Honestly I am too jaded to get all worked up about it, but it is odd to me that people see this progress that I don't.
This may prove to be true, but it may not. Last year, Scottie Lindsey shot 33.8% in conference play, averaging 3.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.8 mpg. Additionally, when he was in the game, the team had the worst defensive numbers per possession of any one player, even worse than Sobo. This year, at least in the past few games, things have started to point upwards for Scottie. I still think there's hope for Ash.
I watched parts of the game linked below against Garfield. He has to do everything because his teammates aren't very good, but he shoots ALOT, many of them terrible shots. And he plays absolutely no defense, just stands around up top on the zone (granted he expends alot of energy on offense since he handles the ball exclusively).
He does appear to handle the ball very well and is able to draw fouls and get to the FT line. We'll see what he can do when he is surrounded with better talent.
I think the less said about that tape, the better. Lakeside needs either a coach who coaches or one or two seven footers.
We've been to the NIT 7 times since 1980, with 4 of those being Carmody 2008-2012. It's been pretty rare. But the excitement isn't about actually just going to the NIT, it's that we also have a better class coming in again next year and it would be nice to get the NIT to feed a CC progress narrative. It's recruiting where most people are seeing progress, not necessarily that we're currently a better team than we have been at our peak.
He's about the size of Jitim Young, isn't he? Big butt like Jitim, too, right?
Ash is not a dominant athlete, so he'll have to learn the level. And while it's nice to have a four year starter and a dominant point guard ahead of him, that's certainly hurt his opportunity. While it would have been best for his development (arguably) for him to see ten minutes per game, it's equally easy for CCC to fall back on Tre and Mac. Ash isn't big enough that he can play with those two, so Lindsey gets those minutes and Ash's only chances are to spell one of the two guys who average 33+ minutes.
He's not been lost out there, though he's not looked comfortable. I'll reserve judgment and hope he develops with a year under his belt.
Yup! I think he can be pretty darn good, but will take development and coaching up. I am also high on Brown...whoever can handle the ball better will get the majority of minutes next year. I'm not convinced you can just stick Lindsey or Law at the 2 and expect them to handle the ball.
Ah, did you happen to see Brown's tape. let's just say that ball handling needs work.
I've seen plenty of his tape, more so than just this game. Pretty sure he'll immediately be a better ball handler than Lindsey and Law next year. What he needs to work on is shot selection and playing within a system. He was clearly allowed to do whatever he wanted on this team, which won't be the case at NU.