What the hell happened to this once proud program? Pretty sad when Illinois State, my alma mater by the way, is more appealing for kids that want to join a winning team.
The Illini
- Thread starter greatgig13
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Only 2 of rivals top 30 recruits in Illinois going to U of I and none from Chicagoland. I think they thought Lovie could recruit chicago and Florida, and has not happened, especially with coach Fitz making NW way more attractive
Beckmans recruiting was horrendous his last few years. The team had some talented seniors last year but the rest of the classes were weak. Smith has a total rebuild on his hands. He has played more freshman than any other team in the country and several look like they have some solid potential. I question whether he will have the patience to see it through
That’s fine he’s playing a lot of freshman from a bottom of the big ten recruiting class from last year, might find a gem. But when the biggest university of a state only gets 2 of the top 30 players in the state and none from the large metropolis, you are in a lot of trouble
Silver, I want to believe the freshmen all playing was for the development of the program, but I can’t keep from wondering if it wasn’t a way to create an excuse for the coach to keep his job.
I can only think of one or, maybe, two rabid Illini fans that I've ever known. Perhaps, that's one of your problems ... a lack of interest in the program.
When I was in high school, a common conception was that the U of I was for "downstate" people, while NIU was built for the Chicago area. The belief was that acceptance to the school was based on geography more than population. Personally, I didn't care, but some of the kids I knew at DePaul did.
When I was in high school, a common conception was that the U of I was for "downstate" people, while NIU was built for the Chicago area. The belief was that acceptance to the school was based on geography more than population. Personally, I didn't care, but some of the kids I knew at DePaul did.
Huh? Are you saying that academically U of I and NIU are equals? There are 1,000s Chicago-area high school grads at U of I. Maybe you should be comparing NIU and EIU as acceptance based on geography?
I blame the 20 years or so reign of terror of Ron Guenther as UI's athletic director. His overall focus on managing costs to keep the athletic department in the black, combined with a severely limited fundraising program, led to coaching staff budgets that were at or near the bottom of the Big Ten. This resulted in a limited pool of head coaching candidates and a revolving door of assistant coaches.
The football program was more than 60 games under .500 during Guenther's reign as AD.
Then, after Guenther retired, the UI hired an even more incompetent AD, Mike Thomas. Thomas came to UI with the reputation that he built up the athletic program at Cincinnati, but as it turned out, the coaches at Cincinnati hated him, found him to be very difficult to work for. Thomas fired Ron Zook and hired Ron Zook lite, Tim Beckman. Tim Beckman came across as a buffoon at his first press conference and it only got worse from there.
Fortunately, Thomas was fired, Josh Whitman was hired, and there is hope for the future. Lovie was hired at such a time where he only has one recruiting class in his second season. Why isn't he getting Illinois recruits, well he learned pretty quickly that the Illinois kids aren't loysl Illinois, and given the past 20+ years, why would they be? His staff recruits Florida and Texas pretty hard.
20+ years of less than stellar football program management under Guenther and Thomas has led to the mess that Whitman and Lovie are trying to fix today.
The football program was more than 60 games under .500 during Guenther's reign as AD.
Then, after Guenther retired, the UI hired an even more incompetent AD, Mike Thomas. Thomas came to UI with the reputation that he built up the athletic program at Cincinnati, but as it turned out, the coaches at Cincinnati hated him, found him to be very difficult to work for. Thomas fired Ron Zook and hired Ron Zook lite, Tim Beckman. Tim Beckman came across as a buffoon at his first press conference and it only got worse from there.
Fortunately, Thomas was fired, Josh Whitman was hired, and there is hope for the future. Lovie was hired at such a time where he only has one recruiting class in his second season. Why isn't he getting Illinois recruits, well he learned pretty quickly that the Illinois kids aren't loysl Illinois, and given the past 20+ years, why would they be? His staff recruits Florida and Texas pretty hard.
20+ years of less than stellar football program management under Guenther and Thomas has led to the mess that Whitman and Lovie are trying to fix today.
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Please note that I prefaced my comment with "when I was in high school." Things were much different then in practically every respect.
Even into the 90s, there seemed to be a disdain for Champaign in the northern suburbs and much higher regard for it south of about Golf Rd/I-90. If they are looking to replace Lovie, they someone like a Mark Dantonio who seems to get a lot from the Catholic systems of OH and MI. As for talent from the "skill position" areas in the state, Champaign is often perceived by parents as not far enough from potential trouble and thus there is encouragement to go farther away.
NIU has proven to have a superior football product over U of I over the last 15 years. Not even close. NIU would win 9 out of every 10 games.
NIU vs. Northwestern is a better ticket, giving edge to NIU.
U of I is dead 3rd in Illinois among the 3 division 1 schools.
NIU vs. Northwestern is a better ticket, giving edge to NIU.
U of I is dead 3rd in Illinois among the 3 division 1 schools.
My Illini's inconsistency is maddening at best. The roller coaster since the mid-60's and the slush fund scandal is still rolling...
1986. I was a freshman who went to a high school who didn't play football. The first football game I ever attended was the Louisville opener...tailgaters across first street from my dorm (Forbes/Six Pack) woke me up with their revelry...campus was involved in the game, sold out despite what turned into a crappy team...then a night game with Nebraska, the score of which I prefer not to remember...the slow end of the Mike White era...
88-89. Jeff George's inconsistency matched the program. Maybe the best arm ever, 10 cent work ethic and no mental strength. But the stadium was full of fans hoping for comebacks...Mackovic was on a stepping stone, not a destination...
Lou Tepper. Brilliant defensive coach who couldn't find an OC of any success. How do you have four 1st team all big 10 linebackers at one time, two who win Butkus awards, and only win 5 games...????
Ron Turner...Established NFL OC. Horribly predictable offense, even when it was successful. Remember, I've never played organized football, yet I could sit in the stands with my season tickets and predict plays based upon formation & personnel...What could a Big 10 DC do to them?? Ruined Kurt Kittner...who was better as a sophomore than as a senior...Toilet bowl to Sugar Bowl back to toilet bowl...
Ron Zook / Juice Williams. Inability to come up with a consistent offense killed the Illini's chance of being really good with him. Backdoored into a good bowl.
Beckman. Just a wreck, lucky to get to a couple bowls. Rode his OC's success to get the Illini job, then floundered by himself...
Lovie. Handed a pile of steaming s*** by a truly fired up Whitman. Lovie's mouth has said that he's interested in retiring here. Illinois is a job you can retire in, as long as you win 7 games every other year and go to a bowl 3 out of 4 years. This is not Nebraska, where they fire a coach for winning only 9 games...They would build a statue for a coach who wins 9 games in his worst year in C-U...
Whitman is working on the facilities to bring the program back to the top. But can Lovie recruit...You would think coaches like John Holocek would be pushing recruits to Linebacker U...I also think Whitman needs to get the students back to the games - moving the student section to the North endzone in my opinion has been a disaster....
1986. I was a freshman who went to a high school who didn't play football. The first football game I ever attended was the Louisville opener...tailgaters across first street from my dorm (Forbes/Six Pack) woke me up with their revelry...campus was involved in the game, sold out despite what turned into a crappy team...then a night game with Nebraska, the score of which I prefer not to remember...the slow end of the Mike White era...
88-89. Jeff George's inconsistency matched the program. Maybe the best arm ever, 10 cent work ethic and no mental strength. But the stadium was full of fans hoping for comebacks...Mackovic was on a stepping stone, not a destination...
Lou Tepper. Brilliant defensive coach who couldn't find an OC of any success. How do you have four 1st team all big 10 linebackers at one time, two who win Butkus awards, and only win 5 games...????
Ron Turner...Established NFL OC. Horribly predictable offense, even when it was successful. Remember, I've never played organized football, yet I could sit in the stands with my season tickets and predict plays based upon formation & personnel...What could a Big 10 DC do to them?? Ruined Kurt Kittner...who was better as a sophomore than as a senior...Toilet bowl to Sugar Bowl back to toilet bowl...
Ron Zook / Juice Williams. Inability to come up with a consistent offense killed the Illini's chance of being really good with him. Backdoored into a good bowl.
Beckman. Just a wreck, lucky to get to a couple bowls. Rode his OC's success to get the Illini job, then floundered by himself...
Lovie. Handed a pile of steaming s*** by a truly fired up Whitman. Lovie's mouth has said that he's interested in retiring here. Illinois is a job you can retire in, as long as you win 7 games every other year and go to a bowl 3 out of 4 years. This is not Nebraska, where they fire a coach for winning only 9 games...They would build a statue for a coach who wins 9 games in his worst year in C-U...
Whitman is working on the facilities to bring the program back to the top. But can Lovie recruit...You would think coaches like John Holocek would be pushing recruits to Linebacker U...I also think Whitman needs to get the students back to the games - moving the student section to the North endzone in my opinion has been a disaster....
Loyola doesn’t have d1 players didn’t you know? They outwork, outcoach, and have better nutrition plans. That’s how they win.
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Comparing linebacker schools
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...chools-in-college-football?comment_id=3418512
Really? Where did you see anyone post that LA is outworking, coaching or has better nutrition than other successful programs? That would be a slap in the face to all other good programs, coaches and players. Sorry, that's not how they roll in Wilmette. Respect the sport, respect your opponents and respect the process.
Relax. Just a joke. They are a really well coached team and a great program. Just joking about how sometimes their fans are a little overzealous when it comes to how well-coached they are and thinking Holecek makes something out of nothing (and their individualized nutrition plans). They're not just playing with guys that walk in off the street. As I stated before look at some of the Patriot League rosters and that will show how many Loyola players are playing at a pretty high level in college.
Dick & Ray would definitely agree Illinois is Linebacker U...
1994 Linebacking corps includes:
Dana Howard, '94 Butkus winner
Kevin Hardy, '95 Butkus winner
John Holecek, '92/93 1st Team All Big Ten, '94 Second Team
Simeon Rice, '94/95 1st Team All Big Ten
yes, that would be the Loyola Head Coach...
Anyone that thinks Lovie is even remotely close to losing his job has no knowledge of the situation whatsoever. This is year 2 in 5+ year rebuild. The incoming recruiting class looks promising (I agree that the in-state recruiting scares me).
You must look at this like Cubs fans did with Theo. Not saying that Lovie is the second coming to the Messiah that is Theo Epstein... just saying be patient and give the rebuild the time it needs.
The new AD, Josh Whitman, appears to be a star in the making and very well respected. He has a Theo-like vision for the program and will not waiver from it. He knew this when he gave Lovie 3mil/year.
You must look at this like Cubs fans did with Theo. Not saying that Lovie is the second coming to the Messiah that is Theo Epstein... just saying be patient and give the rebuild the time it needs.
The new AD, Josh Whitman, appears to be a star in the making and very well respected. He has a Theo-like vision for the program and will not waiver from it. He knew this when he gave Lovie 3mil/year.
How do you figure the incoming recruiting class looks promising when multiple recruiting service currently rank it last in the conference?
Lovie Smith isn’t the right guy for the job year two has been a step back from year one and that is not good when you compare them to the progress Rutgers and Maryland are making in year two with their new coaches.
Rice and Hardy went 3 and 4 overall in the 95 draft if I'm not mistaken
This year's recruiting class had to be small due to the large class that was brought in last year. They have a top 200 recruit for the first time in ages. Team recruiting rankings do not mean everything.
How can you say Lovie is not the man for the job after only 2 years and having only nine seniors on this year's team... NINE.
That's like saying Theo wasn't the man for the job after the cubs regressed from 71-91 to 61-101 from 2011-2012. You have to trust the process.
And who else would Illinois hire?? No one even close to Lovie Smith's credentials.
Hardy and Rice went high in the 1996 draft but Rice was not an LB he was a DE. Again U of I is NOT Linebacker U.
What people don't realize is that Lovie was hired in March of 2016, so while he is in his 2nd year coaching, he has had only 1 recruiting class. So those stating that the program took a step back in year 2 are exactly right. The thing is, Lovie, Whitman and the fans that follow knew this was going to be an ugly year. Young team and no QB is a recipe for a horrible year. Lovie isn't going anywhere. Judge him in 2019, not now.
How have the Bears fared since Lovie was fired after a 10-6 season?
How have the Bears fared since Lovie was fired after a 10-6 season?
Ill89,
They seem to be a bit clueless on recruiting. They say one thing then do another. Said they were going to put a fence around Illinois...hell they haven't even offerred some of Illinois best while chasing players from Florida and Texas that in most cases will simply laugh at them, and others give them a polite no because that's the way they were brought up.
Lovie is a nice, charismatic, & likable guy, but this year is a perfect example of indecision with players. Week in and week out they decided to change the line up at QB to see what will stick to the wall. There is no incoming stud, so pick a guy and get him prepped for the next few years rather than a senseless rotation showing desperation for success.
They look young but that will not improve anytime soon with instability in the program for everyone guessing who's playing next week. Good luck with your investment in the program, I'm feeling very lucky my son dodged that bullet and ended up elsewhere, but feel for many of the boys we know well that landed there because they bought into this rebuild. Lets hope they pick a firm path and stick with that architect in the coming week and into next season so that there's a chance to return to respectability.
They seem to be a bit clueless on recruiting. They say one thing then do another. Said they were going to put a fence around Illinois...hell they haven't even offerred some of Illinois best while chasing players from Florida and Texas that in most cases will simply laugh at them, and others give them a polite no because that's the way they were brought up.
Lovie is a nice, charismatic, & likable guy, but this year is a perfect example of indecision with players. Week in and week out they decided to change the line up at QB to see what will stick to the wall. There is no incoming stud, so pick a guy and get him prepped for the next few years rather than a senseless rotation showing desperation for success.
They look young but that will not improve anytime soon with instability in the program for everyone guessing who's playing next week. Good luck with your investment in the program, I'm feeling very lucky my son dodged that bullet and ended up elsewhere, but feel for many of the boys we know well that landed there because they bought into this rebuild. Lets hope they pick a firm path and stick with that architect in the coming week and into next season so that there's a chance to return to respectability.
Hardy was #2 in '96, Rice was #3 in the draft. In Tepper's 3-4 system, Hardy was generally known as the "drop" linebacker, while Rice was the "rush" linebacker. Whether the "rush" linebacker in this system was really a stand-up defensive end is open to discussion by people with nothing better to do...
Tepper's most stupid choice of alignments was in '95 when he would have Rice & Hardy line up on the same side of the field...Hmmm, two all-American outside backers on that side...why did they run the other way????
Most over-rated coach in Chicago football history. KILLED the Bears when they had the team that should have been a Super Bowl contender yearly with their defense and special teams alone. "Rex is our quarterback", Devin Hester as a #1 receiver....and people wonder why he can't even get the Rooney rule interviews.....
Look how fast the Bucs jumped off that ship. IF he can't get Illinois top talents, U of I better get off that ship just as quick. You are not going to bring top talents from Texas or FLA to Illinois...unless you are producing winners...
Look how fast the Bucs jumped off that ship. IF he can't get Illinois top talents, U of I better get off that ship just as quick. You are not going to bring top talents from Texas or FLA to Illinois...unless you are producing winners...
I agree with your QB rotation. To their defense, I believe that they had made the change to the freshman Thomas for the remainder of the year, but then he got hurt and then they had to go back to the 2 headed crap show that is George, Jr. and Crouch. He has 2 QB recruits coming in next year (Taylor from Peoria being 1) that will certainly help with depth
I also agree that recruiting will need to improve, but they will need to show improvement. Has any coach, FB or BB ever locked down the state? Will never happen.
Questions remain, but I think my original statement that we have to wait until 2019 to truly judge him. Don't underestimate the total crap left over from the Beckman regime.
He was a linebacker in college
https://www.si.com/vault/1995/08/28...o-the-tough-love-he-got-from-his-father-henry
Just because you call an apple and orange doesn't make it an orange. Additionally, even if you include these 2 LBs/LB DE doesn't make you Linebacker U!
I never said Illinois is LBU because it’s not I was just pointing out that you insisting he wasn’t a LB in college was wrong. He played a 3-4 in college and a 4-3 in the NFL in a 3-4 he is rush LB in the mold of a Kevin Greene.
He was a DE in high school per the great Lenti and in name an LB in college but in the NFL he was drafted as a DE.
So what your saying here is that he was LB in college which was the original point that others were making, correct?
According to the SI article but yes wasn't recognized as a LB, he was a stand up DE and played DE in HS and the NFL as well as college in my opinion. The way this whole thing started was the other guy calling U of I Linbacker U and using his proof points as Rice. So stop clownin DuKane Clown.
I wasn't going to bother responding but here one more thing for you to chew on, by the way I like the DuKane Clown moniker and may use it so thanks.
http://video.btn.com/simeon-rice-1990s-best-linebackers