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The Importance of Experience

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Volatility_rivals135605

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Dabo has been HC at Clemson for 13+ years, he has consistently recruited in the top 20, 15, 10, 5 classes for the past decade. 4 & 5 stars at every position probably 2 deep at most. However this year coincided with a certain recruiting cycle, combined with high-end players leaving early for draft he has a young team this year. Extremely talented from a roster perspective, but a lot of youth at critical positions.

Take a few mins and listen to this postgame interview. " In a few YEARS, we will see the fruits of this moment we are experiencing now". So even with 4 & 5 star loaded roster, when you have a young team, it still takes a few years, even with the very best players one could recruit.

This should put things into perspective. How Clemson fans are wanting drastic changes now, Fire this person, Fire that person, Dabo mentions, those are probably the same group of people that wanted him fired after his 3rd year as HC.

How would WVU fans feel is WVU had recruited top 20, 15, 10, & 5 classes the past decade, winning multiple Championships, multiple CFP's, and now experiencing the effects of Youth for the first time in X years. So even after achieving the highest level of success, with a proven staff, you can still experience ebbs & flows..

This shows even under optimal talent & roster conditions, it still takes YEARS for players to reach their peak potential. Clemson is a perfect example of the fanbase being rewarded with Patience with an unproven P5 HC. Thank goodness, those over emotional people calling for sweeping changes wasnt making decisions, or Clemson would have never won multiple Championships and experienced one of the best seasons ever in CFB history.

Brown is experiencing significant roster issues atm, from BOTH a talent & experience perspective. Even if Brown continues to recruit top 25-30 classes for the next few years, nothing but time will resolve the vast majority of the factors that source inconsistency. #PatienceisaVirtue

 
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spartansstink

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Patience is a virtue and longevity has its place. But, more importantly, you must have "buy-in" from your team and somewhat even from the fanbase.

Dabo really is an outlier rather than the norm here. Dabo has national championship rings so the buy-in during the down years, like this one, is still going to be there. Fanbases are always fickle, emotional, and largely ignorant so its usually best to ignore them as much as possible.

A better example would be Justin Fuente at VT. When he took over from Beamer, that program had fallen on some hard times. After his first year, which was really his best, the program has really hit uncharted levels of badness. VT has stuck with him, been patient, and he has had 6 years or so of longevity within the program but where has that gotten them? Numerous players, even starters, have bolted from that program in recent years. The buy-in from everyone is gone now.

Patience and longevity are relics of the past now. With the invention of the portal, why wait when you can go somewhere else and play immediately. Development is gone, espirit-de- corps is gone, so coaches have to plug-and-play from the portal to stay relevant. Coaches do the same thing.

That's where we are today. Are we one consistent QB from being undefeated? Some might argue yes and maybe validly so. But how many others could make the same claim? What about those who say why isn't the QB better developed at this point in his career? Until Brown can show that development is paying off on the field, then he's fair game for criticism. Is he the next Dabo or the next Fuente? That really remains the biggest question...evidence for both I'd say.
 
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Pitt4Life34

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Volatility said:
Dabo has been HC at Clemson for 13+ years, he has consistently recruited in the top 20, 15, 10, 5 classes for the past decade. 4 & 5 stars at every position probably 2 deep at most. However this year coincided with a certain recruiting cycle, combined with high-end players leaving early for draft he has a young team this year. Extremely talented from a roster perspective, but a lot of youth at critical positions.

Take a few mins and listen to this postgame interview. " In a few YEARS, we will see the fruits of this moment we are experiencing now". So even with 4 & 5 star loaded roster, when you have a young team, it still takes a few years, even with the very best players one could recruit.

This should put things into perspective. How Clemson fans are wanting drastic changes now, Fire this person, Fire that person, Dabo mentions, those are probably the same group of people that wanted him fired after his 3rd year as HC.

How would WVU fans feel is WVU had recruited top 20, 15, 10, & 5 classes the past decade, winning multiple Championships, multiple CFP's, and now experiencing the effects of Youth for the first time in X years. So even after achieving the highest level of success, with a proven staff, you can still experience ebbs & flows..

This shows even under optimal talent & roster conditions, it still takes YEARS for players to reach their peak potential. Clemson is a perfect example of the fanbase being rewarded with Patience with an unproven P5 HC. Thank goodness, those over emotional people calling for sweeping changes wasnt making decisions, or Clemson would have never won multiple Championships and experienced one of the best seasons ever in CFB history.

Brown is experiencing significant roster issues atm, from BOTH a talent & experience perspective. Even if Brown continues to recruit top 25-30 classes for the next few years, nothing but time will resolve the vast majority of the factors that source inconsistency. #PatienceisaVirtue

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You literally are a moron 😂. Putting anything Sweeney or anything Clemson in the same post with Brown or WVU... 😂.
Your narrative and support for keeping Brown is misguided on several levels. I’m just gonna laugh at the stat nerd at this point......aaaaahahahaha.....aahahaha...ahaha 😂
 
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WVUFanForever

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That's what is so frustrating with all these WVU haters....

The depth chart showed just three seniors starting on the offensive side of the ball while the defense had four.

Despite what some think, Brown has had to totally rebuild the roster after Holgy left it baron.

They have a nice class coming in...Brown will get the program where it needs to be.
 
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WVUFanForever

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GREGJACOBS said:
You literally are a moron 😂. Putting anything Sweeney or anything Clemson in the same post with Brown or WVU... 😂.
Your narrative and support for keeping Brown is misguided on several levels. I’m just gonna laugh at the stat nerd at this point......aaaaahahahaha.....aahahaha...ahaha 😂
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GFY...no one gives a **** about your spitt opinion. Why are you even here?
 
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WVUFanForever

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GREGJACOBS said:
Did you vote yet? Doesn’t appear that a lot of handles want tGJJ to leave the site. Personally I voted for you being a dork 😂
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Vote on what *****?

I don't read self-serving attention threads from little bitches on here....sorry...

Why would I? Ive been voted the 2021 Poster of the Year!
 
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spartansstink

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The first question is the hardest to answer because so many variables come into play. They COULD get into the playoffs. Winning anything would probably be a different story. Certainly not an every year kinda thing either like so many of our fans think. It's probably more likely a once or twice in a decade kind of deal.
I think the second question is easier to answer. I believe our ceiling is probably around top 20ish consistently. Lots of contingencies go into that also but, with a WINNING staff, that's probably the ceiling.
 
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Buckaineer

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Dabo earned some time after taking over a Program doing better than Brown has at WVU.

Brown took over a program averaging over 8 wins per year several years running and turned it into a five win program several years running.

If he acheived something he might buy time. Right now WVU still has a losing record for the third straight season.
 
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Rootmaster

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WVUFanForever said:
That's what is so frustrating with all these WVU haters....

The depth chart showed just three seniors starting on the offensive side of the ball while the defense had four.

Despite what some think, Brown has had to totally rebuild the roster after Holgy left it baron.

They have a nice class coming in...Brown will get the program where it needs to be.
Click to expand...
That would be barren not baron illiterate.
 
WVUALLEN

WVUALLEN

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Aug 4, 2009
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Every single thread about sports is destroyed by pissing matches and middle school type behavior.
 
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spartansstink

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WVUALLEN said:
Every single thread about sports is destroyed by pissing matches and middle school type behavior.
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People just need to ignore the immature posts like Vol and I did.

There are threads for that type of of stuff - about 3 out of 4 on here - and its always the same folks repeating the same tired drivel.

If there wasn't another board for that type of stuff then fine, let it be done here. But there is, and the people who want to participate in that, if that's their wishes, should take it to the Woodshed where it belongs.

Don't really agree that the site needs moderation if the people would just moderate themselves.
 
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Volatility_rivals135605

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spartansstink said:
The first question is the hardest to answer because so many variables come into play. They COULD get into the playoffs. Winning anything would probably be a different story. Certainly not an every year kinda thing either like so many of our fans think. It's probably more likely a once or twice in a decade kind of deal.
I think the second question is easier to answer. I believe our ceiling is probably around top 20ish consistently. Lots of contingencies go into that also but, with a WINNING staff, that's probably the ceiling.
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My personal thoughts under a hypothetical "Ceiling Scenario"

From a recruiting perspective:

When you step back and look at all the blue chip type of programs that are far better positioned for talent acquisition than WVU, the absolute ceiling would be to maintain in the 16-24 range from year to year. I dont think a 4 year average in the 20-24 range can be obtained before the 8th or 9th year. That would ensure every class has a good talent base, to ensure depth is not a significant decline and to reduce yearly fluctuation in outcome.

The 4th & 5th year begin to show results on the field, which help improve recruiting. This is a layered process that gradually builds, so by the 8th+ year a quality staff could be in the 20-24 range(4 yr average).

The results on the field will reflect the fluctuation & gradual improvement of talent.

DOWN Year = 8-10 Wins(including bowl games)
UP Year = >= 11 Wins

Under this optimal ceiling hypo, If we are able to hold onto that staff, we should experience the full peak between then 8thyr -12thyr. Where the first 4-5 years simply cement a foundation, and peak recruiting occur after the 5th year. That talent will offer peak performance around the 9th year.

In this scenario, with the right staff, I think WVU could be in the national conversation for Conference Championship & possible CFP every 3 years. Under DH, WVU was a 1 in 8 years program, which was+is not good enough.. There could be a grouping of "optimal years", where all peak years are 3-4 years in sequence, or it could be spread out with 1-2 "down year" in between.

The importance here is that our UP years are in the 10+ Wins, and a Down years are > 7 wins. Perhaps in this scenario we may have a shot, if the stars align and every bounce goes our way every 6 years. If we ever get there it will be with a Senior heavy team with a 4 yr recruiting average in the 20-24 range, I dont think WVU is a program that can make back to back visits to the CFP, but we could get that magical class & QB who do extremely well their Jun & Sen years, but if I had to guess, I would think Conference Champs Jun yr with CFP showing their Sen yr. BY that time tho the CFP may allow 8+ teams, so there may come a time, under the perfect alignment where we could make two CFP showings in back to back years, esp if we remain in the new BIg12.

Personally, I just want a staff that can have us in position to seriously compete for Conference Championships every 2-3 years, and raise the floor on our down years to still be a top 25 team. Which I do think is possible with the right staff. Whether Brown is that guy or not, its far to early to tell. Considering the deficit he started with, the way I see it he needed a 3-4 years just to get us back to 0(from a talent perspective).


Something like:

5 OR 5 OR 5
7 7 7
5 5 5
9 8 9
10 10 8
9 11 10
11 9 9
11 11 11
12 12 12
10 9 10
8 10 9
11 12 10
12 10 11
 
M

MichiganHerd

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WVUFanForever said:
Bang turdboy's dumpy wife more.
Click to expand...
I just showed her your post, as well as your Facebook picture.

She laughed and then she called you a fat slob, and questioned how any woman would bang you. I answered that by showing her a pic of your wife, and now she understands.

Can't make it up!
 
W

WVUFanForever

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Oct 1, 2004
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MichiganHerd said:
I just showed her your post, as well as your Facebook picture.

She laughed and then she called you a fat slob, and questioned how any woman would bang you. I answered that by showing her a pic of your wife, and now she understands.

Can't make it up!
Click to expand...
Post my fb picture here please or start a thread admitting your are a compulsive liar...

queenie claimed to collect my photo too....why are two grown men collecting my FB pics?

You two are sick *****.

And I love the fact your wife is dumpy...something to hold on to...she says you haven't done it right for years.
 
S

spartansstink

New member
Sep 24, 2005
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Volatility said:
My personal thoughts under a hypothetical "Ceiling Scenario"

From a recruiting perspective:

When you step back and look at all the blue chip type of programs that are far better positioned for talent acquisition than WVU, the absolute ceiling would be to maintain in the 16-24 range from year to year. I dont think a 4 year average in the 20-24 range can be obtained before the 8th or 9th year. That would ensure every class has a good talent base, to ensure depth is not a significant decline and to reduce yearly fluctuation in outcome.

The 4th & 5th year begin to show results on the field, which help improve recruiting. This is a layered process that gradually builds, so by the 8th+ year a quality staff could be in the 20-24 range(4 yr average).

The results on the field will reflect the fluctuation & gradual improvement of talent.

DOWN Year = 8-10 Wins(including bowl games)
UP Year = >= 11 Wins

Under this optimal ceiling hypo, If we are able to hold onto that staff, we should experience the full peak between then 8thyr -12thyr. Where the first 4-5 years simply cement a foundation, and peak recruiting occur after the 5th year. That talent will offer peak performance around the 9th year.

In this scenario, with the right staff, I think WVU could be in the national conversation for Conference Championship & possible CFP every 3 years. Under DH, WVU was a 1 in 8 years program, which was+is not good enough.. There could be a grouping of "optimal years", where all peak years are 3-4 years in sequence, or it could be spread out with 1-2 "down year" in between.

The importance here is that our UP years are in the 10+ Wins, and a Down years are > 7 wins. Perhaps in this scenario we may have a shot, if the stars align and every bounce goes our way every 6 years. If we ever get there it will be with a Senior heavy team with a 4 yr recruiting average in the 20-24 range, I dont think WVU is a program that can make back to back visits to the CFP, but we could get that magical class & QB who do extremely well their Jun & Sen years, but if I had to guess, I would think Conference Champs Jun yr with CFP showing their Sen yr. BY that time tho the CFP may allow 8+ teams, so there may come a time, under the perfect alignment where we could make two CFP showings in back to back years, esp if we remain in the new BIg12.

Personally, I just want a staff that can have us in position to seriously compete for Conference Championships every 2-3 years, and raise the floor on our down years to still be a top 25 team. Which I do think is possible with the right staff. Whether Brown is that guy or not, its far to early to tell. Considering the deficit he started with, the way I see it he needed a 3-4 years just to get us back to 0(from a talent perspective).


Something like:

5 OR 5 OR 5
7 7 7
5 5 5
9 8 9
10 10 8
9 11 10
11 9 9
11 11 11
12 12 12
10 9 10
8 10 9
11 12 10
12 10 11
Click to expand...
While I like your optimism, I am not quite as optimistic as you.

I look at all this with a "chicken or egg" view. Since WVU isn't a true blue blood, they need wins to build excitement around the program. To get those wins, they need quality players and high recruiting classes. So, with schools like WVU, you have to find a coach who can do both and those coaches are truly few and far between.

From the recruiting aspect, the better ranked classes I could give a pass to if the highest rated recruits came from offensive linemen or defensive linemen. The difference between a 4 or 5 star ranked WR or RB and a 3 star one could often come down to something as simple as height or weight differences. The difference between linemen is huge. As such, I don't excited over a 4 star skill player as much as a linemen because the linemen will make the skill player of any ranking look a lot better but it doesn't work the other way around.

I too would like to see the ceiling raised but to do that I believe WVU would have to really develop those players over time. Therefore, there are going to be those years when you are only going to win 7 games especially when you are having to play several underclassmen at a time. Then, as they age and mature, the wins keep increasing per year so that by year 3 or 4 your looking at a conference championship caliber team. It becomes cyclical, similar to what you saw with WVU during the Nehlen years - a great team, improvement over the next 3, then a great team again (think 88, 92, 96)

I like what Brown has done to this point - especially on the defensive side of the ball. Is he the coach that can do it all - I agree its still too early to tell. But to think the fanbase, the boosters, and/or the university would wait until year 12 or so might be pushing it. An annual top 25 team is never out of the question - that's an expectation. Going to a bowl annually is not out of the question either - that's an expectation. Doing something special once or twice a decade - that should be an expectation also.
 
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Rootmaster

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Yeah a minimum 7 wins are a part of wvu's past...you know the pre Kneel Clown era ...the time before the mass acceptance of mediocrity.
 
K

KingCoal

New member
Jul 20, 2009
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WVUFanForever said:
Post my fb picture here please or start a thread admitting your are a compulsive liar...

queenie claimed to collect my photo too....why are two grown men collecting my FB pics?

You two are sick ****s.

And I love the fact your wife is dumpy...something to hold on to...she says you haven't done it right for years.
Click to expand...

WVUFanForever said:
Ha! A fat joke....are you queenie?

His posts suck too.
Click to expand...
The fat slob band geek with no life and a dead-end job spent all night last night begging for my attention, as usual. And, this p.o.s. has the nerve to cry incessantly about other posters ruining this board? He's easily the worst poster on here.
 
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