Big Pharma and the government seem to enjoy skipping down that golden road together. Would love to know how many of our elected representatives reached their millionaire status thanks to this inside knowledge.
The New Lounge
- Thread starter hpnole
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Big Pharma and the government seem to enjoy skipping down that golden road together. Would love to know how many of our elected representatives reached their millionaire status thanks to this inside knowledge.
That kind of reminds me of those maps conservatives like to show of the US color-coded red and blue according to how they voted. It looks overwhelmingly red, but neglects the fact that land doesn't vote, and huge swaths of the country are red but represent very few people. Look at a similarly color-coded NC gubernatorial map and it will look like a GOP landslide, too.
The US spends more on our military than the rest of the top 10 countries combined. China and India together spend about 1/3 of the US, despite a combined population of 9-10 times more than us. Military might comes from military spending, not population.
The video is of a Trump Secretary telling the Trump Admin's side of it to FoxNews. It's not even his job to be objective.
What do any of you see with your own eyes in the entire 50-minute video to indicate Zelensky started the fight?
What difference is it to Ukraine if preventing WW3 means a compromise with Russia that means conceding land and resources to them?
What difference does it make to us if Ukraine wants to keep fighting a war that they can't win?
You mean besides saving tens of thousands of lives? Preventing any more of their women and children from being raped?
The sad fact of the matter is that Putin will never agree to a peace that doesn’t include at least some of the land he has illegally taken. So in that sense he will be rewarded for his naked aggression.
The only other alternative is the US and Europe do what it takes to remove Russia from Ukraine Whether it’s boots on the ground or overwhelming military arms support, there’s no stomach for that politically.
That's not really a reasonable take. I was serious. President Trump wants to end the war as quickly as possible; if that means Ukraine concedes things to Russia, I can see why ending it as quickly as possible takes a backseat to ending it as justly as possible for Ukraine.
If someone stole something from you and it went to court, would it be acceptable if the judge said they only had to give back some of it?
Trump has said that he doesn't know if the ceasefire plan will lead to peace. But without sitting down and negotiating, they won't even be able to get to a ceasefire. And Zelensky has shown no willingness to even negotiate without us giving them security guarantees, which this administration will not do. Zelensky won't even hear agree to stop fighting assuming Russia takes the ceasefire deal at first. I don't blame him for being skeptical, but I do blame him for trying to bully us into allowing him to dictate our foreign policy.
Zelensky was offered a way out of war with no concessions of the 2022 land. The Biden administration told him not to take the deal and now, here we are. Billions of dollars later arguing with a brat who is being given terrible advice that will not end well for his people.
I heard him pointing out that Putin has broken promises more than 20 times. How was he bullying us?
What would a security guarantee look like?
A quick search for the 2022 peace proposal says Putin put it together. Is that the one? If so, again considering how untrustworthy he is, why would he have gone for it?
What would a security guarantee look like?
A quick search for the 2022 peace proposal says Putin put it together. Is that the one? If so, again considering how untrustworthy he is, why would he have gone for it?
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I dont, and Putin wouldnt be in the need of needing what Ukraine is needing...other countries are aiding Ukraine as well and the money is in many forms, loans, grants, direct aid and etc....also a large bulk if I understand correctly of the military aid/equipment is dated and we were upgrading/phasing out, not 100% on my wording there....i dont think he disrespected anyone imo, seems like it was all set up in the beginning when trump talked about his dress upon arrival....he is a wartime president, same way basically churchill was dressed when he visited the white house during wartime.....leading countries are involved to help support a sovereign country from being wrongfully invaded, if Ukraine taken were would it stop?....thats why leading countries are so invested
Like I said. I don't blame him for being skeptical. But do blame him for trying to dictate our foreign policy. By changing the time and place to sign the minerals agreement that he knew the terms 3 times and coming into Washington, then deliberately turning it into spectacle in front of the world because he was obviously advised to do so, that is how he was bullying us.
It's pretty simple at this point. It was the previous administration's policy to write blank checks. It is not this administration's policy. If Zelensky wants U.S. aid (not USAID) then they will need to adhere to our policy. Which first and foremost will involve no U.S. soldiers. If that is something they are not willing to accept, that is certainly their right. But we shouldn't be writing another check for their war to continue when they don't want to take a single step to end it.
By deflecting, you're saying it is okay for them to round up unwilling citizens and force them to fight in a war they cannot win.
Russian wrongfully invaded Ukraine. Could have been prevented, but it wasn't. So now there should just be war forever without sitting down and negotiating a simple ceasefire without demanding other countries commit to war with Russia?
How did he try to dictate our foreign policy? Asking for things isn't that.
How did he turn it into a spectacle? VP Vance especially, and President Trump were both far more aggressive and critical of him than he was of us. They were also taking all kinds of shots at the Biden administration, which, deserved or not, seemed off-topic. I don't really begrudge them that -- I'm pretty used to that being our President's MO -- but it was much more of a spectacle than anything President Zelensky did.
Is "security guarantees" code for US troops on the ground?
It's not about refusing to take a single step; it's about taking the right step.
Sounds like a crude form of conscription, which cis men still have to sign up for at 18 in our country.
Kudos for acknowledging Russia is in the wrong, but I don't understand how you can hold it against Ukraine that they are still fighting when Russia is still attacking.
Again. Zelensky agreed to the minerals deal and agreed to sign it 3 different time and decided to renegotiate it in front of the world. Huge shocker that the no ******** administration would react the way they did. Giving a foreign country security guarantees would be foreign policy, correct? Telling us that he will not sign a deal that he agreed to 3 times without us adding security guarantees is trying to dictate our foreign policy, no?
Our country has a military draft. Which I am against, but mainly because of Vietnam. I can see a scenario where I could be persuaded. That is a process. If you get drafted and don't qualify for an exemption or you don't report, you get arrested. What Ukraine is doing is literally kidnapping their own citizens and forcing them into the war.
And let me clarify. I don't fault Ukraine for fighting back. At all. And if they want to continue to fight until their last man bleeds out, that is their right. But when you are relying heavily on other countries to assist you, can either give in to their conditions for their assistance, or you can stop counting on it. They have a right to protect their sovereign land, and we have a right to set conditions for our aid.
I don't want anyone's sons or daughters having to fly halfway across the world a die in a war that their own neighbors refuse to be a part of. If European countries want to foot the bill and provide soldiers and then count on us as last case support, I will listen. But no way we should continue to be the leaders of monetary or military aid and then be criticized for asking Europe to step up first.
Our country has a military draft. Which I am against, but mainly because of Vietnam. I can see a scenario where I could be persuaded. That is a process. If you get drafted and don't qualify for an exemption or you don't report, you get arrested. What Ukraine is doing is literally kidnapping their own citizens and forcing them into the war.
And let me clarify. I don't fault Ukraine for fighting back. At all. And if they want to continue to fight until their last man bleeds out, that is their right. But when you are relying heavily on other countries to assist you, can either give in to their conditions for their assistance, or you can stop counting on it. They have a right to protect their sovereign land, and we have a right to set conditions for our aid.
I don't want anyone's sons or daughters having to fly halfway across the world a die in a war that their own neighbors refuse to be a part of. If European countries want to foot the bill and provide soldiers and then count on us as last case support, I will listen. But no way we should continue to be the leaders of monetary or military aid and then be criticized for asking Europe to step up first.
nope dont agree w/ it, but wartime makes things happen that shouldn't, kinda like the draft that was forced on American citizens in the past.., of course Ukraine cant defeat Russia on its own and they should've never been invaded to start w/ to have to negotiate anything....this is like I come to your house start tearing everything up and stealing stuff for no reason, just because i want to bully, then you have to negotiate w/ me to stop and give me some of your property to leave....seems you couldve ended w/ the bolded, but how could it have been prevented, as thats what had already been decided was going to happen
In the United States, military conscription, commonly known as the draft, has been employed by the U.S. federal government in six conflicts: the American Revolutionary War, the American Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War.
I dont want our soldiers over there either...it should just stop all together as it should've never started in the first place...which countries would be next?..poland, lativia, estonia, moldova??
There’s no way in hell Putin is giving back the land already taken. That’s a nonstarter and why this war would have lasted until a) Russia took over all of Ukraine or b) Foreign aid to Ukraine dried up, whichever came first if the Dems were in charge
As long as it was less than $1000 I would be fine with it. Lol
We keep sending billions to Ukraine, shouldn’t we be getting something in return?
How much money should we keep giving to Ukraine? Is there a limit amount? I have yet to see any Democrat answer this question.
In my post above, I gave a pretty good reason why the draft is different than kidnapping citizens.
I can agree that Ukraine should have never been invaded, but that won't make it not so. Like I said, Ukraine has a right to fight until their last man bleeds out. Probably not the best policy, though.
Your analogy doesn't really fit the scale of this war. There isn’t a way to talk about what started this war without being accused of being a Putin apologist or Russia propagandist. Russia was always going to have heavy influence in Ukraine politics, inside of Ukraine is a heavy Russian speaking population. As long as there was Neutrality, it was going to be a well enough alone type deal. Ukraine wanted full independence and rightfully so. When Viktor Yanukovych was ousted and Poroshenko became president, Ukraine made it known that they would try to isolate themselves from Russia and join NATO. This is a decade after Georgia did the same thing which was seen as an aggression by the Russians. You may not like the Russians, and who does, but when a military alliance that was formed to combat YOU, starts building up on your borders, it can be seen as an aggression. So after that, Russia goes into Crimea claiming to be annexing a Russian population that was being cleansed. I do not defend this, btw. Then you have Zelensky, a U.S. puppet. Before war, before the build up of military on Ukraine's border. Which we should have never allowed to happen without an ounce of pushback. Zelensky was given an opportunity to denounce intentions to join NATO. Which he did the opposite. I don't agree that this gave Russia the right to invaded a sovereign country. But it gives insight to why they did.
IMO, it could have been prevented with a strong and clear message from the world that an attack against a sovereign European nation would be an attack against the EU. Germany, France and Britain could have built a military presence in Ukraine as a deterrent. It's much different to provide troops as a deterrent than it is as war fighters. Chances are, Putin tries diplomacy at that point. It also doesn't help that we had a bumbling fool for President who thought he was so intimidating that he could just whisper, don't, and that would prevent the war. And then he says anything other than a soft invasion would be unacceptable. With no consequences, of course.
What point are you making. No disrespect, I just can't see what you're trying to tell me. What would be YOUR end game here?
the top was in reference when you said the draft started w/ the vietnam war...this just shows the practice went back even further....the bottom agrees w/ you not wanting and us soldiers over there fighting and if ukraine is taken, whose to stop them from bogusly creating reasons to keep going to other countries over there?
Oh, if only he would think of the children!I'm all for keeping American military out of it. I don't begrudge Zelensky for asking, and when the very existence of his country is at stake, I don't begrudge him for continuing to fight back.
No. I said that I was against the draft, mainly because of Vietnam. I wasn't saying that was the first time.
Nato and European countries. That who should be the leaders. We shouldn't be anything other than the guy who has their backs when they absolutely need us.
Agree or disagree. I don't think Russia has any right to tell another country who to align with. But if you have an alliance that was formed as a deterrent to combat you and you have a mutual agreement to keep that alliance off of your borders, how are you supposed to take it when they continue to push towards your borders? What would be your red line in their shoes? NATO isn't a trade partnership. They're not about building economies and creating wealth. They're about building military presence. Russia has been warning NATO for 30 years not to push east and they keep doing it. Now I am not saying they don't have a right to push east. But what did the expect to happen?
10-4, i took your comment as saying the draft was due to the vietnam war...understood..........yeah kidnapping and making you fight is harsh, the draft is harsh as well, but def not as harsh and there are some loopholes and wiggle room
fair...with our location on the map, we should just sit back from basically all the conflict in the world....then if ever the need what if the world viewed our issues that way when we needed help, though a scenario is tough to imagine
I would have agreed with you.. three years ago. The Russians continue to slowly advance westward in the Donbas, a Russian speaking region that Putin has been eyeing for decades.
I'm all for keeping American military out of it. I don't begrudge Zelensky for asking, and when the very existence of his country is at stake, I don't begrudge him for continuing to fight back.
If Zalinskyy wants to keep the rest of his country, he needs to be willing to negotiate a peace deal. Surrender the Donbas in exchange for an end to the war. That’s the best deal he’s gonna get right now It’s not right, or fair, or just but it’s reality
Sometimes I need to hear stuff 11 times.
These specifics help.If I were in Zelensky's position, that last sentence would come across as empathetic and could get through to me. I know our President loves to play the tough guy and his supporters love that about him, but Zelensky is already suspicious of one bully. Some empathy could go a long ways with him.
I'm definitely no expert on this Ukraine/Russia war. I doubt you'll find any conservative though that doesn't have empathy towards the citizens of Ukraine. It's their leadership that's the problem, the same as ours before 2025. I'm not a Putin fan either.
Zelensky is a hack, and libs aren't as outraged as they need to be about them literally grabbing young men off the streets, but you're all over Trump for how he talks in HIS HOUSE.
Zelensky is a hack, and libs aren't as outraged as they need to be about them literally grabbing young men off the streets, but you're all over Trump for how he talks in HIS HOUSE.
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F Zelensky. He can take a hike. You don't come to someone's house and beg for more without saying Thank You for keeping you alive for the past 3yrs.Sometimes I need to hear stuff 11 times.
If I were in Zelensky's position, that last sentence would come across as empathetic and could get through to me. I know our President loves to play the tough guy and his supporters love that about him, but Zelensky is already suspicious of one bully. Some empathy could go a long ways with him.
He got the reality check he needed. His announcement today that he's ready to come to the table correctly, says as much.
Trump and Vance weren't playing tough guys. They were telling the little POS like it is. You come here with your hand out but never show gratitude for what you've gotten. GTFOH.
The only reason libs are taking his side is because they hate Trump more than seeing reality. It's a sad day when you choose war and more death over peace b/c you hate Trump that much.
It's not his house.
I saw with my own two eyes how our President spoke to President Zelensky. Saaaaaaaaaaaaw.
I have heard third-hand about Ukrainian men being abducted and forcibly enlisted. Hearrrrrrrrrrd.
The last time the US had conscription of that sort was during the Civil War, which was, of course, the last time a war was fought on US soil. Poland used 12-year-olds during WW2. A bunch of Central African countries are using child soldiers right now.
It's an awful thing, but in an occupied country where those same people may be just as likely to be killed by the invading military, there is important context and extenuating circumstances. It doesn't make it any less awful, but it does make it more understandable and regrettable.