I’ll go with your first 3 words. You can’t justify it, because you know it was wrong. I try to watch some of both sides of news sources, but when I hear the left say “Elon keep your musky hands off our money” that tells you all you need to know. I know there’s crooks on both sides, but damn they just come right out and say it and don’t give a ****.
The New Lounge
- Thread starter hpnole
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That’s 3 questions and I don’t know why you’re asking me any of them.
Just one question for you, same as before: Is there any legit criticism of Israel?
He already gave you legit criticism of Israel. Not that he should have. It was a dumb request.
That wouldn’t even be a good sentence. You’re only going with my first 3 words because that totally changes the meaning of what I said into something you can handle. Classic straw man.
Obviously Israel has its own problems, because everyone does. But what's the relevance here? You have the only free and democratic state/country in the ME in Israel constantly being accused of the very things they are victims of. They are surrounded by people who don't only despise them, but want them dead. They are fighting against proxies who are actively trying to kill them and force them to live in fear and anxiety while using their own population as sacrificial dogs. And you have more people in the UN that will sympathize with the Palestinian's plight than will call out hamas for their atrocities.
As Ghost responded, I’ve answered that question before. As with any democracy, there is internal debate in Israel about most every decision. Many Israelis feel that Israel’s response to 10/ 7 has been disproportionate. Given that Gaza is no longer habitable.
However, this is the response Hamas wants in order to render Israel unable to defend itself against an enemy who uses tunnels, hospitals, schools,etc as military bases in order to maximize human loss. Israel is in a no win situation against an enemy who wants to maximize its own casualties so it can accuse Israel of genocide
Re: the casualty figures put out by Hamas’ Health Ministry and taken as gospel by most Western media, these numbers include the normal non war related deaths for a population of 2 m people:
4k yearly natural deaths
10k Hamas terrorist ( they don’t distinguish combatants and civilians)
thousands of radicalized teenage boys
unknown hundreds/ thousands of those who harbor Hamas.
One of the lowest civilian/ combatant death ratios in modern urban warfare. Far lower than the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Even the UN has reported that Hamas’ death numbers have been greatly exaggerated
I mentioned the settlements in the “WestBank” in a post last week along with two other points you’d likely disagree with but were made nonetheless
Of course you don’t see the relevance. You won’t accept my explanation, either. Try: it is relevant TO ME because I refuse to engage on his terms, your terms, anyone else’s terms here without relative confidence that it’s a conversation rooted in good faith and reasonable understanding of the complexities of the situation. I think y’all tend toward oversimplification on just about everything, leading to completely one-sided, rigid stances. It’s not worth my time arguing with people where I’m constantly expected to be the only one to make concessions.
You inquired about what criticism there is of Israel. Then whine about it not being worth your time to discuss it. That's pretty strange.
When you discover via audit that people are stealing money from you, would you be mad at the auditor or the thieves? When people are telling you who they are, believe them. I hope these sticky fingered clowns are all voted out of office.
That Datt thinks he’s a slick one doesn’t he. I asked him if he could justify how the Dems spent millions on illegals and not our citizens, and of course he says he can’t justify it, but he has to add that he can’t verify it either. He always buries his head in the sand and then says we only get our information from one source, thus it can’t be verified. Talk about being in a cult, vote blue no matter who. Some of these liberals are so smart, but yet so stupid. I voted Democratic years ago, but they have changed dramatically since the Obama administration.
You questioned the relevance of why I wanted to know. I explained, then said that otherwise it was a fool's errand.
Your version is unverifiable because it is a distortion. The money you refer to was paid to cities as reimbursement for housing migrants seeking asylum. The Roosevelt Hotel, which opened in 1924, is historic, for sure, but not luxurious unless you're applying WNC standards. It's typical of where asylum-seeking migrants are housed (a requirement under city law). The source of these funds is completely separate and unrelated to disaster relief funding. It's like complaining that there's something in the left pocket when what you need is in the right pocket.
So "illegal immigrants"? Distortion.
"Luxury hotels"? Distortion.
"Taking money from WNC"? Completely false.
I'm not going to justify your version because your version is deliberately constructed to be unjustifiable. I can't verify your version as true because it's not.
Presenting something so twisted and inaccurate as if it is the truth is no invitation to debate. It's intended to shutdown debate because who could debate that if it was actually true? It's therefore intellectually dishonest and cowardly. (This is not name-calling. It is a conclusion and judgment of the tactic based on logic. I have to include this parenthetical disclaimer because y'all are a bunch of crybaby snowflakes. THAT is name-calling.)
Now... you and others are going to pushback on what I've explained here because you worship an unelected billionaire who has bought influence in this administration and you take his word as Gospel. So it was a waste of my time to explain. This is why I remain reluctant to get into things with y'all. There's no point. Beyond winning an election, y'all think that means you get to define the truth as whatever you say it is. I'm not going to play your game on your terms.
I see it more like the auditor is criticizing how money was spent, then taking the rest of the money away based on his judgment. Like he didn't like what I ordered for dinner so he stole my wallet.
The bold? It's an acknowledgement that both of our analogies are opinions. Let's see if you can handle their coexistence.
Have y'all seen the Venn Diagram of departments Musk is harassing and which departments are investigating his business interests? It's a single circle.
'Murica's McPaper says...
Source I won't vet as a mockery of y'all but which you'll think is hypocrisy because you have no self-awareness says...
Deliberately triggering source says...
Why wasn't the Pentagon the first place he looked into? When is that going to happen at all? That would have tremendous bipartisan support. The military is by far our biggest federal expense (appropriately) and by far the greatest source of waste and graft. Yet he's wagging his jowls over a relative pittance he can attach the word "trans" to and y'all chomp down on the hook as hard as you can.
'Murica's McPaper says...
Source I won't vet as a mockery of y'all but which you'll think is hypocrisy because you have no self-awareness says...
Deliberately triggering source says...
Why wasn't the Pentagon the first place he looked into? When is that going to happen at all? That would have tremendous bipartisan support. The military is by far our biggest federal expense (appropriately) and by far the greatest source of waste and graft. Yet he's wagging his jowls over a relative pittance he can attach the word "trans" to and y'all chomp down on the hook as hard as you can.
You’re so full of BS, I bet you fart when you blink. All I’ve said is that I’m sick of the US taking care of illegal immigrants and then you try to justify it by saying the hotels they stayed in were not luxury hotels. We have people in WNC that lost their homes and some who were without power for 4 months. Then you say they are asylum seeking migrants. What don’t you liberals not understand, they came here illegally. Our citizens have been here all their lives and had the government turn their back on them in favor of illegals. I would be pissed if the Republicans were in charge if they did this as well. I’m done and you’re right, you waisted your time in posting that garbage that you think sounds so intelligent.
It’s not that liberals don’t understand, they just don’t care to.
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It would be almost impossible for someone in his position to not have conflicts of interest. As long as everything is transparent, it shouldn't change the outcome for the work I don't care where they start, as long as at the end they leave no rock unturned. You're correct about the Pentagon. But you left out the word corruption. It will probably uncover an amount of corruption that makes the USAID look like child's play. That doesn't mean that uncovering the waste and fraud in USAID is unimportant. With every bit of government waste, it proves more and more that they can't justify the amount of money that they steal from our paychecks every week. That should upset everyone.
Just for the sake of saying. If you have one of these nose rings, nothing you say will carry any weight. Because you have already been rightfully removed from being taken seriously.
Of course it would have bipartisan support. Criticizing the military is red meat for the Far Left base. The Dems have been trying to weaken the military for decades. This show of weakness and fecklessness leads to much human suffering as in Ukraine and the Middle East. We have too much sh- to clean up from the past four years to have our Def Dept distracted by bean counters.
What concessions? You’ve never once acknowledged the impossible situation Israel is in nor do you ever criticize any other nation like Russia or China but beg for right wing criticism of Israel like a starving puppy. Why do you have such a hard on for Israel our long time ally? Is it because right wing Christians support it and therefore your knee jerk reaction is to hate it?
Do you grasp the central fact that if not for Israel ALL of radical Islam’s homicidal rage would be directed at the West and we would likely have New Orleans type terror attacks on a regular basis?
Yeh the Dems would never put so much power in the hands of someone unelected.
Anthony Fauci says howdy
Bingo. Of course they’re seeking asylum. That’s how they avoid deportation.
That doesn’t mean they’re not here illegally. It’s a Dem loophole, maybe well intentioned at its outset but is rife with abuse. Ooh there’s a drug cartel an hours drive away. We’re in danger! Please save us Democrats
You have it all out of sequence, but whatever.
Repeat: Asylum seekers are not the same as "illegal immigrants."
Repeat: NYC is required by local law to provide housing. FEMA reimbursed them. The housing was not luxurious.
Repeat: There's no "turn their back... in favor of illegals." The money comes from different sources. You're crying about someone getting a handout from one pocket while there's still money in the other pocket.
Undocumented immigrants are not the bad guys here. They're not stealing from WNC. There is money enough to support both, and it is basic human compassion to do so. Blame FEMA, blame bureaucracy, blame those in power that make these decisions -- including all federal elected executives and legislators.
I would love to focus on expressing compassion for WNC, but y'all would rather turn this into an attack on asylum seekers without cause.
I point at Elon Musk, a billionaire with no government experience who bought his way into a vaguely defined position exerting control and chaos and conflict of interest... and you come back with the man who was the director of NIAID for nearly 40 years and one of the world's most esteemed and cited scientists during that time.
They're not the same. That wasn't even a good try.
What dont you understand? I blame everyone that you mentioned. I don’t blame the illegals. If I knew I could come to the U.S and get free phones, free housing, and free childcare I would do it in a heartbeat. How do you think those illegals got to NYC? Our government has been corrupt in handling U.S. tax dollars and us that have any common sense are sick of it. They are illegal immigrants and I call bullshi+ on seeking asylum. I know several immigrants that have come here legally and have become U.S. citizens and it’s a slap in their face with what has happened.
I've also not gone all-in with Palestine. In fact, I've expressed embarrassment about how many on my side of the fence have gone so over-the-top for Palestine. From the beginning, I've said it's complicated. Just that. That was all it took for people here to attack me because anything more complicated than a napkin dispenser is intellectually intimidating to y'all. All of that proceeded any request from me that y'all demonstrate the slightest perspective by acknowledging where Israel has any responsibility for the conflict before expecting me to engage. Again, it's what I've asked for in response to your attacks and attempts to engage me on the topic entirely on your terms.
I want Israel to continue to exist as a sovereign nation. I want them to be a US ally. I also want them to be better than they are. That's not antisemitism. That's actually support.
You just watch the msm and think that Elon is the devil. Finding fraud with corrupt government spending should be a good thing to every citizen here. The democrats are upset and some republicans because they’re now being caught with their hand in the cookie jar. That’s why I said earlier, that one official made the comment that Elon needs to keep his hands off our money. That says it all.
Every time you point at asylum seekers and repeat the lie that they got money stolen from WNC, you are fanning the flames of xenophobia.
What naturalized citizens really hate is the bigotry that lumps them in with undocumented immigrants. It's the same when you consider asylum seekers the same as other undocumented immigrants.
You could get free phones, free housing, and free childcare just by faking a disability and getting welfare, to hear your side tell it. If you'd come to the US "in a heartbeat" for that, why aren't you doing it now through welfare?
Congrats on knowing several immigrants. Tell me about your Black friend next.
Bold: Wroooooong!
Here's what I said: "Elon Musk, a billionaire with no government experience who bought his way into a vaguely defined position exerting control and chaos and conflict of interest"
Where is the lie? Here, I'll assign numbers to it so you can identify the lie(s) that way: "Elon Musk, a (1) billionaire with (2) no government experience who (3) bought his way into a (4) vaguely defined position exerting (5) control and (6) chaos and (7) conflict of interest"
Too many big words?
I don't care if you go undefeated; when your schedule is full of picking-on-emotional-college-kids, you're SoS is not getting you into the tourney.
I’ve got a lot of black friends and they don’t like racist like you.
What you fail to grasp is that Israel’s destruction and the killing of all Jews wherever they are is in Hamas’ charter. It’s their reason for existence.
Whatever Israel has attempted in the past has failed. Israel has had liberal PM’s before.
Land for peace? More terrorism.
A two state solution? More terrorism.
Of course Israel’s not perfect, but if she were the Pariah she’s made out to be she would have annexed Gaza and the “ West Bank” decades ago. Gaza was controlled by Egypt until 1967. Why wasn’t a Palestinian state established during this time if it’s so important to them? Why did Arafat turn it down?
It’s so easy to criticize Israel. From over here. They are surrounded by countries that despise them.
He’s lucky he’s not in jail for his medical malpractice during Covid, not to mention his labeling the Lab Leak origin theory as a conspiracy theory. Even a broken clock is right more often than this overrated hack.
Why are Dems willing to embarrass themselves in order to defend this guy?
Masks are bad, then a month later you can be arrested for not wearing one.
Then later admits that the 6 ft distance was basically pulled out of his old, tired arse and had no scientific research behind it whatsoever
True. And we seldom even mention the daily rocket attacks from Hezbollah to the north causing the entire northern half of the country to live in panic EVERY SINGLE DAY and these arm chair military experts want to pick apart Israel’s every move? Bewildering